I was tossing around some ideas for new gem cuts they could add to make some of the less desirable colors more in demand, and to generally allow for more flexibility in gemming.
I really think this is going to become "the next big thing" on the forums. I know many guilds are always looking for Purple/Red Gems (MH/BT+) and Dawnstones/Talasites are used overall, but always in surplus.
I want to think that Blizzard will address them, but alas it would involve Socket changes and warping metas and their requirements.
I keep thinking about the gem system, and if it was a succes or failure in the long and short run.
When I first heard about it, I thought it would be an awesome system that would allow people to truly customize their gear based on their own needs and their other gear options. Others thought it would be more like enchanting- a tax that would be placed on a person whenever a piece of loot was upgraded.
Unfortunately, it looks like it's the second option that won. I think things might be different in PvP, since everyone in arena gear is wearing the same items the customization has to come through gemming. But in PvE, it pretty much comes down to red gems everywhere, with matching purples for metagems and using oranges/yellows to reach hit caps.
I hope Sunwell introduces some new gem cuts that makes a blue gem equal to a red gem in terms of raw DPS. But I'm also scared that it will be haste, and people will make silly sets with insane haste ratings to abuse one or two spells (Chain Heal or Arcane Missiles for example).
I was tossing around some ideas for new gem cuts they could add to make some of the less desirable colors more in demand, and to generally allow for more flexibility in gemming.
A lot of those cuts you've suggested would add quite a bit to gemming flexibility, I know I'd like to have better options for yellow slots with my paladin tank than an enduring talasite or foregoing the socket bonus(if it's worthwhile) for a 12/15 stamina gem. Overall I like most of the suggestions you've made.
As far as ideas for epic meta gems I've always thought it would be interesting to implement class-specific meta gems that either increase the duration of/shorten the cool down of class abilities. IE: A paladin meta gem that increases the duration of avenging wrath by 2-3 seconds and reduces the cool down by 30-45 seconds etc. Then again, blizzard may be as bad at coming up with class specific meta bonuses as it has with some tier set bonuses, so perhaps it isn't the best idea.
When I first heard about it, I thought it would be an awesome system that would allow people to truly customize their gear based on their own needs and their other gear options. Others thought it would be more like enchanting- a tax that would be placed on a person whenever a piece of loot was upgraded.
Unfortunately, it looks like it's the second option that won. I think things might be different in PvP, since everyone in arena gear is wearing the same items the customization has to come through gemming. But in PvE, it pretty much comes down to red gems everywhere, with matching purples for metagems and using oranges/yellows to reach hit caps.
I think the fault isn't the gem system, but the poor item point allocation assigned to different items. When a mage specced 33/28 (a terrible spec mind you) has 2.45x damage on crits and still gets a bigger DPS increase from spell damage gems than crit rating, then you know something is wrong. All three gem colors need things that make classes do more damage, heal more damage, or tank more damage. Both Red and Yellow increase damage, but red is just better at it. Providing cuts that make Red, Yellow, and Blue increase damage won't matter unless all three are at least in the same ballpark of DPS increase. 8 intellect isn't remotely as useful as 8 spell crit, and that's obscenely worse than 9 spell damage.
Personally, I'd rather see socket bonuses that are good enough to justify some variety in gems to get said bonus rather than more gem cuts (though there are some odd omissions in the current cuts). Right now, for most classes, you just go with one gem in every socket (with enough others to get a meta requirement met).
While it would be nice to have greater variety in the stats available on gems, generally speaking there's going to be a "best" stat (beyond certain thresholds like hit cap or whatever) to maximize output, whatever that output may be. The perceived problem here is really that the best stat overlaps in pure red rather than being spread out across colors, I think- would people care so much if it weren't for the shortage of spinals and massive glut of Seaspray Emeralds?
When I first heard about it, I thought it would be an awesome system that would allow people to truly customize their gear based on their own needs and their other gear options. Others thought it would be more like enchanting- a tax that would be placed on a person whenever a piece of loot was upgraded.
Unfortunately, it looks like it's the second option that won. I think things might be different in PvP, since everyone in arena gear is wearing the same items the customization has to come through gemming. But in PvE, it pretty much comes down to red gems everywhere, with matching purples for metagems and using oranges/yellows to reach hit caps.
Gemming can be seen as even more then just a tax, under most situations items that can be gemmed are more powerful then items that cannot be, as gem slots have a fixed ilvl cost while stats become more expensive. The "Red Gem Everywhere" problem is complex, often related to individual class scaling and stat desirability. The real solution is to make undervalued stats such as int or spi more valuable.
Originally Posted by Copernicus
I hope Sunwell introduces some new gem cuts that makes a blue gem equal to a red gem in terms of raw DPS. But I'm also scared that it will be haste, and people will make silly sets with insane haste ratings to abuse one or two spells (Chain Heal or Arcane Missiles for example).
I doubt haste will make it onto any non-unique gem, stacking enough of it has very unusual consequences, and blizzard seems to have indirectly addressed this by making most current haste items lack stats like regen or crit that almost all other items would have. In Sunwell I would have "corrupt gems" drop from bosses that can be cut/quested into unique gems that are more powerful then current epic cuts, and allow for the variety that came from heroics, while not making everybody replace +12 spellpower with +13 spellpower.
I'd like to see meta's introduced with either +dmg or +crit passively and a chance on spell cast to increase dmg/healing by X amount. Melee equivalent for AP would work as well (as this seems to be common mechanic for Blizzard ever since Wrath of Cenarius from Cenarion Hold).
Hopefully while they are re-tooling the tier 3 sets for the new Naxxramas they start to use the more interesting nature of the set bonus effects. Redemption and Dreamwalker were both steps in the right direction in my opinion in that their benefits were more specific to the target rather than a generic effect for the caster. I'd like to see metas that either buff the user based on class or (preferably) based on target's class.
While not really new gems as such, I'd hope that in the future Blizzard mixes up the gem types more. Currently we can easily define gems by their colour as such:
Red - Throughput
Blue - Longevity
Yellow - Ratings
This in turn basically causes most archetypes to jump to a single gem type. DPS is largely concerned with throughput and thus wants mostly/exclusively red gems, with some subspecs liking yellow gems as well because the ratings scale well for them (Exception generally being rogues that aren't hit capped). Tanks want longevity, and gain it through blue gems. Healers tend to be more divided between throughput and longevity, though all of them still want some throughput from their gems.
There's some minor additional spreading of gem types people do due to meta requirements, but apart from that what it basically comes down to is that anyone that isn't a tank wants a red, or partially red gems. The system could benefit a lot of this was split up more, reducing the desirability of individual colours.
For example, let's say that for the next batch of gems spell damage and +healing were both put on yellow gems instead, swapping places with the spellhit and spellcrit gems effectively (Which would become reds). This would really result in making yellow gems desired by more than just rogues, and would even make green gems quite good for healers wanting a combination of throughput and longevity.
In Sunwell I would have "corrupt gems" drop from bosses that can be cut/quested into unique gems that are more powerful then current epic cuts, and allow for the variety that came from heroics, while not making everybody replace +12 spellpower with +13 spellpower.
I really like that idea, there's some really nice combo's in heroics in regarding to gems.
Increasing the amount of gems by adding new ones with other stats on them can be problematic though, as pointed out earlier, some stats are incredibly potent once stacked. Some added ones that seem to be missing at the moment would be nice though.
I was always hoping that much like Sapphiron droping a unique enchant back in the day, a late end-game boss in BC would drop epic meta gems. Or cut patters for a jc to learn. I can hold my breath till Sunwell though.
They need to do something to break up the "everyone wants red" thing. Our guild is just moving in t6 and we've restricted gem requests to unreplaceable items only. Demand for red gems alone is more than twice as much as demand for every other gem colour combined. There's obviously something wrong with that.
I was always hoping that much like Sapphiron droping a unique enchant back in the day, a late end-game boss in BC would drop epic meta gems. Or cut patters for a jc to learn. I can hold my breath till Sunwell though.
I'm somewhat split on this idea. While I like the idea on the surface, I dislike the idea of having to lose one piece of gear (in this case the rare-meta) because of upgrading another. Of course, we still have this issue often enough with breaking set bonuses, so maybe it's not that big of a deal.
If I recall, EQ had the same issue with their dropped gems, and solved it by allowing you to buy solvent to remove the gems to resocket in new gear. Of course if this were to apply to all gems it'd probably have pretty drastic consequences on the JC market, perhaps only allowing soulbound gems to be removable?
Back to the OP, especially from a hunter's perspective, I'd love to see Haste & Armor Pen options in gems. Armor Pen especially, since it's one of those stats where the dps-value varies, making the 'best gem' decision much more vague.
Any red socket is automatically a Spinel or a Amethyst.
Any blue socket is either an Amethyst or a Sapphire.
Any yellow socket is either a Pyrestone or an Emerald.
Of these, the weakest slot is the Emeralds. No-one *really* wants to use them, and thus Pyrestones tend to be placed in those slots. This is, of course, for priests mostly (although other healers tend to follow this setup as well; shamans, druids, and paladins all).
Ideally, yellow would be converted from "crap" (which it currently is, ignoring rogues who love yellow sockets because they need 360 hit rating and getting 'free' socket bonuses is sex) into "stats". I'd love to see something like:
Really, priests and druids both want hybrid gems that have spirit instead of Mp5. There is one epic BoP instance drop gem that is 9 heal, 5 spirit -- it would be awesome to have an Emerald cut that could take its place.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
They need to do something to break up the "everyone wants red" thing. Our guild is just moving in t6 and we've restricted gem requests to unreplaceable items only. Demand for red gems alone is more than twice as much as demand for every other gem colour combined. There's obviously something wrong with that.
Well melee classes and tanks don't go for red gems by default. Alot of Healers find regen more useful so go for blue or purple which also fits socket colors better. Many paladins go for spell crit. Warlocks prefer orange to get hit cap and then switch to red. Some destruction locks just go yellow for spell crit.
Mages/hunters and shadow priests are normally red by default.
Bottomline, I don't think "everyone wants red" is very accurate. However we are normally low on crimson spinals mainly because the drop rate so far been way lower on those for us.
Slight correction to the above: the following classes need/want reds in 50% or more of their total sockets:
- enhancement shamans
- mages
- warlocks
- shadow priests
- about 50% of healers who choose to stack healing, esp. paladins & druids
- ret paladins
- dps warriors
- hunters
- feral druid (kitty)
[very few warlocks use pyrestones anymore, unless they're trying to get a metagem activation. There's enough passive hit on T6 + offset to circumvent the need to gem for it]
It's moronic how much demand there is for red gems as compared to any other. You can get away with using Pyrestones in a lot of the spots where reds are demanded (except for hunters and shadow priests), but it's suboptimal.
How hard would it be to have a vendor in the Illidari Council room that would take any epic gem + 1 void crystal and give you back <any other epic gem>? It would even act as a nice sink, pulling void crystals off the market ... and would let us get rid of the 40+ lionseyes and emeralds sitting in our bank.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
I think that this is another "Wish-list" type post that really goes no where.
Sure it would be great to have more gems types... i fully agree. The problem is that no mater what combo you put together, the min/max community will always find that ONE gem that provides the most and stack it. Todays spinnel would be tomorrow's emerald if the math pointed that way.
If anything I think that socket bonuses should be better stats (more expertise, +haste, -armor.. etc) to encourage people to actually gem for the bonus.
It may not be typical, but that's been our experience.
Tanks want blue. As has been mentioned, rogues like yellow (for hit). Healers will usually gem towards socket bonuses. Mages, warlocks, hunters, ferals, DPS warriors, shadow priests, and DPS shamans all generally tend to prefer red (with exceptions to activate metas and sometimes for good socket bonuses). Spell damage, agi, and strength are simply better than the alternatives for most of these classes.
What would be nice is if the min-max gems for the various classes were spread out amongst the colours. Right now let's say 2-3 people in the raid favour blue (the tanks), 7-8 people go by socket bonuses (the healers), 3ish people favour yellow (the rogues), and 12 or so people favour red.
Perhaps rather than focusing on it being a wishlist with just random combos of stats, we could come up with realistic stats to put on the underused gem colors that would make sense to use in a socket bonus, but not stack to exclusion? Is this even possible?
For example, I yearn to use Seaspray Emeralds in my yellow sockets on my tank gear, but +15 stamina is just way too much better than +7 stamina/+5 defense. Its not even a contest. If it was +11 stamina / + 8 defense, now I would consider it.
Edit: Some sort of block rating gem would make new level 70 prot paladins rejoice around the world. It would be nice for a passive uncrushable set as well.
01/30/08, 2:49 PM
