Are you seriously responding negativly to such a possible gold cow (in your case)?
edit: something like: /dnd I have the !craft addon, standing infront of org/SW mailbox. Trade me with your gem +10 gold and whisper me what cut you want.
could earn you tons of gold if you really are one of the only ones with those designs.
I don't play much apart from raiding and grinding for raiding. Having half the world say "Hey, I'd really need a gem cut, can I come to you?" would just eat up all my time or bloat my ignore list. I already spend upwards of 30min / day handling gems as it is. Maybe someone else would enjoy being a 24/7 JC bot earning a lot of money, but it could become quite silly with so few people / server who can cut epic gems.
Anyways, I'd be very very surprised if anything like that is what we will see. Isn't the whole idea of epic gems being widely available based mostly on the assumption Blizzard words everything they post ultra-accurately?
I highly question anyone's knowledge of their class and gearing choices if they wasted honor that could be put towards vindicator and/or season 1 pieces but opted for HWL out of impatience. You clearly are offended by that because you took that as my main point when it is not and I addressed that already.
As I understand it, this will never happen: HWL gear being put on reputation vendors will most likely mean that they will cost gold instead of honor, provided you meet the reputation levels.
Ergo, there's no honor being wasted.
Even then, you can question someone's gear choices all you want, no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy this readily available gear.
As someone who cannot be arsed to grind up some 100k honor for a Ret set that I'd just use to have some fun on off-days, I'm welcoming this with open arms. Non-zero resilience is always better than zero resilience.
Most will still be honor grinding for S1/S2 with the possible availabilty of HWL to fill holes as a mere perk.
That's exactly the point. Say they put HWL shoulders buyable for 20g from the Scryer/Aldor quartermaster at Exalted. Now, you're going to have to do the Exalted grind anyway for your shoulder enchant.
Then, say they put the HWL helm (for casters) buyable for 30g from the Sha'tar quartermaster at Revered. You're going to have to do the Revered grind anyway for your caster head enchant. The same thing would apply for the HWL Warrior helm being buyable from Cenarion Expedition Revered.
So, given that you know that you can buy a PvP helm and shoulders from reps that you cannot avoid grinding for regardless of the HWL availability, what would be the first thing you might consider spending honor on? S1 Chest, pants or gloves. Personally, I'd grab the gloves first for the glove bonus, since even the pants (and a belt) can be acquired from one night of Halaa PvP.
Depending on how Blizzard structures the availability, it will be a perk, a great perk, for something that you would have to do anyway.
If it really matters how accessible HWL gear is where has the outcry been for the past year? I haven't seen one thread, post, PM here, official WoW forums, or anywhere else complaining that they want HWL gear but it's too expensive. Not a single one.
If you check the "How to make BGs fun" thread in the PvP forums, there has been a lot of support for giving people a free set of PvP gear as soon as they hit 70. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard got the idea from there (not necessarily free, but much easier to acquire nonetheless).
And no, you haven't seen a massive outcry on the WoW forums about the exorbitant cost of HWL gear because HWL gear is not buyable anymore. Instead, there has been a massive outcry about the exorbitant cost of S1 gear, which is the new baseline.
I guarantee that if S3 came out without making S1 buyable through honor, that the outcry would have directed to HWL gear instead, in much larger volume and with much more vehemence;
Instead of:
"200k honor for 5/5 S1 and full Vindicator's is a soul-sucking grind that makes me want to destroy my eyes with an icepick"
We would get:
"Why is Blizzard making me do a 200k honor grind for ilevel 115 blues that will still get me instagibbed against a Vengeful Gladiator anyway?"
OK so 2.4 hits, everyone and his mom goes and buys HWL gear. Then what? Back to the thread mill for S1/Vindcator's gear. You are still looking at 270000+ honor to gear up two seasons below the best arena geared people. 270000+ honor from the same fucking 4 BG's over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
Except you won't be PvPing with the fresh 70 Mage with full (and I mean full) greens, 6k HP and literally gets cleaved in half by a single autoattack and one MS. Part of the irritation in BGs comes from having to play with people who are drastically undergeared for their role. The other part comes from finally hitting 70 and experiencing that undergearedness yourself. This change alleviates that.
On a final note, I can't believe people are railing against getting free stuff.
Anyways, I'd be very very surprised if anything like that is what we will see. Isn't the whole idea of epic gems being widely available based mostly on the assumption Blizzard words everything they post ultra-accurately?
It's from http://elitistjerks.com/623372-post258.html which is a complete rumor. There are a few guilds on Tichondrius with strong Blizzard connections. I know of at least one instance of a leak coming from one of them, so there's enough credibility to take it seriously. Not enough though to be anything but idle speculation.
On a final note, I can't believe people are railing against getting free stuff.
Could it be because we are intelligent people who realize that this is worthless tweak whose value will be zero exactly one second after players get their HWL gear and go "now what"? With the extent of mudflation in TBC HWL gear is a joke and a poor one at that.
Also we don't know how much rep is required for these, so stop with all "free stuff" phrases. Did you(?) or someone else say in their post something about exalted rep for these? If they put in Exalted requirement for HWL gear then I KNOW that the devs are just laughing their ass off at the playerbase.
Could it be because we are intelligent people who realize that this is worthless tweak whose value will be zero exactly one second after players get their HWL gear and go "now what"? With the extent of mudflation in TBC HWL gear is a joke and a poor one at that.
Also we don't know how much rep is required for these, so stop with all "free stuff" phrases. Did you(?) or someone else say in their post something about exalted rep for these? If they put in Exalted requirement for HWL gear then I KNOW that the devs are just laughing their ass off at the playerbase.
The HWL gear will have a bit of worth to a small portion of the playerbase. In particular, those who want to do casual arena, but not grind a million years of honour. It will also help those looking to grind the honour, making it somewhat more enjoyable to start with (though the fact that they will grind it anyway kinda makes this not so significant).
I hope that they itemize boots/bracers/belt/rings/etc. via this method as well. If they do this, then I personally could gain 100+ resilience. A 100 resilience increase, to me, would be the difference between 1450 and 1550. Sure, it isnt going to get me much further than that, but a potential boost is a potential boost.
If it is exalted though, that would be crazy. If I were blizz, I would be putting 5 pieces each on different vendors at honoured (boots/belt/bracers/gloves/offhands&jewlery) and 5 more at revered (weapons/head/chest/legs/shouders).
It's difficult for me to see how putting blue PvP gear on rep vendors can be criticized; the worst thing I think you can legitimately say is "nice idea but it won't be effective", and we won't know THAT until we see stats, price, and rep requirements.
There has been a huge amount of complaining over the "bootstrap" needed to become competitive in arenas. Again and again we've seen people suggest that what is needed is gear that is much more obtainable than S1 (that is, without the mind numbing BG grind). Unstated - but implicit in the suggestions - is that the gear wouldn't be as good as S1. (Although once S4 starts, I could see S1 gear on rep vendors - but it'd almost have to require exalted then. That won't help rerolls looking for a "starter kit" for arenas.)
In short, the announced change is exactly what multiple threads on EJ and other forums have been asking for. And the response is... "Nobody will want this." Um, sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. (And no, arguing that you meant the current blue honor gear costs too much honor doesn't help, since nobody else is even talking about the 2.3 solution.)
Could it be because we are intelligent people who realize that this is worthless tweak whose value will be zero exactly one second after players get their HWL gear and go "now what"? With the extent of mudflation in TBC HWL gear is a joke and a poor one at that.
There are no decent non-raid/non-heroic plate healing shoulders outside of the HWL gear.
There are no non-raid/non-heroic 2.60 speed Shaman off-hands.
A 93.2 DPS HWL weapon is still better than a Crystalforged War Axe.
There are quite a few more examples out there, depending on the kind of rep needed, such as the HWL's Shiv (1.40 speed dagger offhand).
Did you(?) or someone else say in their post something about exalted rep for these? If they put in Exalted requirement for HWL gear then I KNOW that the devs are just laughing their ass off at the playerbase.
Yes, I did mention Exalted rep, although that was pure speculation on my part.
My point was that even Scryer/Aldor Exalted would be perfectly acceptable given how any serious player would still grind that out for his shoulder enchant.
Revered would probably be fine and dandy with most people: Either it's something like Cenarion Expedition/Thrallmar where you'll need a head enchant anyway or it's something like Mag'har/Consortium that can be grinded solo.
If I were blizz, I would be putting 5 pieces each on different vendors at honoured (boots/belt/bracers/gloves/offhands&jewlery)
I think it's worth noting that there are no "blue" PvP belts/boots/bracers - those are actually the Marshal/General's gear, and it's doubtful that they'd be included since they're ilevel 123 epics.
I'm with you in hoping that the blue jewelry gets included too though.
Last edited by Prinsesa : 02/06/08 at 3:09 AM.
Reason: Spelling
Legendary Ranged Weapon from Sunwell confirmed by a French rep to be a drop like Warglaives as opposed to quest based like Atiesh or Thunderfury. I'm a little dissappointed at that, once more we're thrown at the mercy of the RNG.
A few more details on this legendary weapon : it will be a loot like the Warglaives of Azzinoth, not a reward from a quest like Thunderfury.
Legendary Bow from Sunwell confirmed by a French rep to be a drop like Warglaives as opposed to quest based like Atiesh or Thunderfury. I'm a little dissappointed at that, once more we're thrown at the mercy of the RNG.
Legendary Bow from Sunwell confirmed by a French rep to be a drop like Warglaives as opposed to quest based like Atiesh or Thunderfury. I'm a little dissappointed at that, once more we're thrown at the mercy of the RNG.
Figured blizzard would learn their lesson, its a shame when guilds such as Nihilum face the wrath of RNG when they deserve warglaives more then any guild out there. Maybe Im bitter as well because weve only seen 1 in 23 kills, however its a horrible mechanic to have items that are that powerful be on a random loot table. A pair of warglaives adds around 200 personal dps, thats a pretty decent advantage going into new content with say a couple pairs in your raid, adding to the already horrible rng of getting the 1 or 2 offsets you need out of BT... 40+ najentus kills and weve seen 1 halbred, 30 something archimonde kills and we have never gotten the healing staff.. the drop mechanics are way to random.
Translation: More details on that legendary weapon: it will be available as a drop, same as Warglaives of Azzinoth, and not a reward from a quest series like Thunderfury.
Translation: More details on that legendary weapon: it will be available as a drop, same as Warglaives of Azzinoth, and not a reward from a quest series like Thunderfury.
Thing is, there is no other ranged weapon in game that suits legendary status and sunwell besides Sunstrider Longbow. It could be something totally new though.
Last edited by Kirion : 02/06/08 at 7:15 AM.
Reason: Edit - previous poster was faster:)
Except you won't be PvPing with the fresh 70 Mage with full (and I mean full) greens, 6k HP and literally gets cleaved in half by a single autoattack and one MS. Part of the irritation in BGs comes from having to play with people who are drastically undergeared for their role. The other part comes from finally hitting 70 and experiencing that undergearedness yourself. This change alleviates that.
On a final note, I can't believe people are railing against getting free stuff.
I'm not trying to disagree with this idea, but I am never in that state when i reach 70. I spend my time from 68-70 getting decent quest blues that are the best available for pvp, and sometimes grinding exp in AV so i can get at least a weapon as soon as I ding 70. I can't really see any excuse for anyone being in full greens at 70.
Thing is, there is no other ranged weapon in game that suits legendary status and sunwell besides Sunstrider Longbow. It could be something totally new though.
Well, there is Frostfathom, the bow wielded by Lady Vashj, but this is highly unlikely, unless Kael'thas took it from her and gave it to Kil'jaeden. Didn't Alleria Windrunner also wield a legendary bow that was lost when the Scourge invaded Quel'Thalas ?
The possibility of xxx legendary bow in lore being the legendary ranged weapon drop from Sunwell is as high as Rambo giving a machine gun to Kil'Jaeden.
The possibility of xxx legendary bow in lore being the legendary ranged weapon drop from Sunwell is as high as Rambo giving a machine gun to Kil'Jaeden.
Well when such a well thought out argument is laid out like that, how can anyone argue.
Originally Posted by Shadowed
The best part is, not only were you late in linking it, that's an April fools topic from 6 months ago.
I'll give you a quick answer to your statement that you can't see any excuse for being in green when dinging 70 - lack of playtime.
I know that considering the audience (dedicated raiders in high end guilds) of these forums, this may not be something that you really think about, but a vast majority of people playing WoW only have a limited amount of time to do so - maybe an hour here and an hour there and they may not find the time to get all these group quests done especially since there is an overabundance of quests and you can reach 70 without even setting foot in at least 2 zones - and yet reach honored standing with a few factions.
That's who the target market is for moving the lvl 70 blues to rep vendors - not people who have lots of time to grind away in the BGs and want to gear up an alt (although it will make their life easier as it will give them a relatively sound first step).
I guess that'd bring up the argument of "welfare" gear (an expression I can not stand) - but that's trumped by the fact that this gear is, as has been already stated, not that good and therefore would not have a significant impact on the higher "level" pvp game. BUT it WILL have an impact for the "casual" player, which once again do make up a vast majority of the playerbase.
PS: this is not a "casual vs hardcore" argument , but more to say that Blizzard are trying to cater for all types of players and make this game more fun for everyone.
Well, there is Frostfathom, the bow wielded by Lady Vashj, but this is highly unlikely, unless Kael'thas took it from her and gave it to Kil'jaeden. Didn't Alleria Windrunner also wield a legendary bow that was lost when the Scourge invaded Quel'Thalas ?
Alleria lost after alliance expedition to Draenor. It was Sylvanas and its same bow
This tit for tat arguing around PvP rewards just re-enforces my belief that people who play for PvP will NEVER be happy.
If some scrub gear gets moved to vendors then WHO CARES?? It's still not going to change the fact that the people this is aimed at will not be your elite competition.
If Blizzard was serious about making PvP competitive and "competitive gaming" compliant, they should simply give everyone access to all the top gear when they enter arenas so that skill is the determining factor. This idea that somehow the current system is working well is completely junk. As each season of PvP comes along, the gear gap for people to enter PvP becomes more insurmountable. Someone currently just starting from fresh 70 will have to deal with getting their ass handed to them unti they spend a days and days of their life honour grinding.
I'll give you a quick answer to your statement that you can't see any excuse for being in green when dinging 70 - lack of playtime.
I know that considering the audience (dedicated raiders in high end guilds) of these forums, this may not be something that you really think about, but a vast majority of people playing WoW only have a limited amount of time to do so - maybe an hour here and an hour there and they may not find the time to get all these group quests done especially since there is an overabundance of quests and you can reach 70 without even setting foot in at least 2 zones - and yet reach honored standing with a few factions.
That's who the target market is for moving the lvl 70 blues to rep vendors - not people who have lots of time to grind away in the BGs and want to gear up an alt (although it will make their life easier as it will give them a relatively sound first step).
I guess that'd bring up the argument of "welfare" gear (an expression I can not stand) - but that's trumped by the fact that this gear is, as has been already stated, not that good and therefore would not have a significant impact on the higher "level" pvp game. BUT it WILL have an impact for the "casual" player, which once again do make up a vast majority of the playerbase.
PS: this is not a "casual vs hardcore" argument , but more to say that Blizzard are trying to cater for all types of players and make this game more fun for everyone.
Agree - the vast majority of people this change was intended for aren't really going to be elitistjerks.com posters or forumers. So why are so many people here taking it on board as if its a change that was directed at them and responding accordingly? Doesnt make sense to me either.
02/05/08, 10:45 PM
Should of course say ranged weapon.
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