I have a hard time believing a lot of this. The Imp Shadowbolt change to warlocks just seems incredibly fishy, not so much for the warlocks themselves, but more for the effect it will have on shadow priests. They've already nerfed Shadow Weaving once to (I assume) scale back on the mana returns from VT, so this just seems like an unneeded change. It's not like shadow priest DPS is running rampant out of control or anything...
I'll be highly disappointed if you don't have to be exalted with the major Burning Crusade factions to buy full HWL gear. (Thrallmar/Honor Hold, CE, Sha'tar, Lower City, Keepers of Time, and possibly Scryer/Aldor) I don't pvp often, I'm a raider, and doing the honor grind isn't that time consuming and I have fun doing it while being PvE speced and having very little resiliance. It isn't like arenas where you'll die in 3 seconds if you don't have resiliance.
I'm sorry but thats just stupid. The idea behind this gear isto give you a starting foot hold in PvP. I can tell you from first hand experience as a Feral that was forced to gather a Resto kit for arena that its very annoying to have to compete in BG's without the slightest bit of resilience. Giving each new character a starting set is an excellent move to get them into it and not get instantly annihilated by Vengeful Gladiators.
Originally Posted by Shadowed
The best part is, not only were you late in linking it, that's an April fools topic from 6 months ago.
I have a hard time believing a lot of this. The Imp Shadowbolt change to warlocks just seems incredibly fishy, not so much for the warlocks themselves, but more for the effect it will have on shadow priests. They've already nerfed Shadow Weaving once to (I assume) scale back on the mana returns from VT, so this just seems like an unneeded change. It's not like shadow priest DPS is running rampant out of control or anything...
Not to mention that if you want to nerf an ability, it's usually best to actually nerf the ability (ie, Vampiric Touch) rather than messing around with other abilities that affect it. Nerfing ISB solely to reign in Vampiric Touch would be silly.
It is nonsense like this that makes Blizzards communication policies so infuriating. If their methods for distributing information were even close to decent then people would not be going apeshit over lists like these. Instead, since no information is ever provided, these lists pop to fill a void and people are too quick to believe anything. Soon, normally sane people enter a state of wild frenzy and any hope for meaningful discussion is obliterated, even on these forums.
The most annoying part about something that's so incomplete is that IF it's true, then it's also missing huge balance changes.
To use these notes as an example, the initial WoR post had lifebloom nerfed. The mmo-champion post said Trees can cast any healing spell. If someone only knew of one change, than they'll jump to some wild conclusions. It's fun to speculate, but when it comes to any big changes to core class mechanics, the full patch notes would be needed before any meaningful discussion can exist.
You can't take one of the weaker pvp class specs and make it weaker yet (in pve too) without a corresponding change to maintain its balance. I don't believe the change to tremor and poison totem, as suggested, are sufficient enough of a boost to keep elemental shaman in a net-even position after reducing their damage further.
Wait, are you calling elemental a weak pvp spec? Seriously? Elemental is simply ridiculous in 5v5, it definitely deserves a nerf. It might be weak in 2s and 3s, but that's what the utility changes are there for (I don't think the changes to those 2 totems will make ele shamans amazing in those 2 brackets but it's a start, and blizzard have stated they don't want to do sweeping changes). According to SK Gaming's rankings, 2345 and 2346 together represent about 20% of top arena teams, elemental is definitely not a weak pvp spec. Personally I would change bloodlust rather than reduce lightning bolt's damage since bloodlust + mana burn is so ridiculous, but I guess the nerf to mana burn took care of that.
The rogue change is strange, slight PvE buff I suppose, but does next to nothing for PvP. Make it work off 5/5 Wound Poison and not consume, and that would be a solid change. No change to mobility in either warriors or rogues would disappoint me... hope they're either not finished or fake...
Without getting too excited the changes seem either fake or incomplete. The changes to Elemental seem like a poor rehash of 2.3 - In my mind therethere would need to be some buff to offset the Lightning Bolt Coefficient nerf.
Edit: One other odd comment, Isnt' the pulse on Tremor Totem currently 4 seconds rather than 5?
It is nonsense like this that makes Blizzards communication policies so infuriating. If their methods for distributing information were even close to decent then people would not be going apeshit over lists like these. Instead, since no information is ever provided, these lists pop to fill a void and people are too quick to believe anything. Soon, normally sane people enter a state of wild frenzy and any hope for meaningful discussion is obliterated, even on these forums.
Like people wouldn't complain & moan if Blizzard started releasing half-finished notes containing nerfs they later on decide not to go through? System might not be perfect, but I don't think it's fair to call it *that* bad.
It is even more than that because token drops are not balanced between the class groupings, and will not be evenly distributed.
If you have been farming Illidian since October this is almost meaningless to you. The rest of us are really happy.
Those of us that HAVE been farming him since October would rather just have another item slot on bosses than a tier set item slot. Almost everything we get is either DE'd or goes to offsets. I'd rather have a chance to actually see some of the items we've never looted or rarely see.
AoC: Kamikazeoi- Necromancer
Serious Casual of Omm PvE
Wait, are you calling elemental a weak pvp spec? Seriously? Elemental is simply ridiculous in 5v5, it definitely deserves a nerf. It might be weak in 2s and 3s, but that's what the utility changes are there for (I don't think the changes to those 2 totems will make ele shamans amazing in those 2 brackets but it's a start, and blizzard have stated they don't want to do sweeping changes). According to SK Gaming's rankings, 2345 and 2346 together represent about 20% of top arena teams, elemental is definitely not a weak pvp spec. Personally I would change bloodlust rather than reduce lightning bolt's damage since bloodlust + mana burn is so ridiculous, but I guess the nerf to mana burn took care of that.
I hear 2345 and 2346 means that the shaman is overpowered, not the war/pal/priest? After all, once elemental is nerfed, all the shaman can go resto ... oh wait that isn't viable on nearly the level of other healers.
I hear 2345 and 2346 means that the shaman is overpowered, not the war/pal/priest? After all, once elemental is nerfed, all the shaman can go resto ... oh wait that isn't viable on nearly the level of other healers.
Shamans are 8% of the 70 population. Dead last is not surprising; they're dead last of all classes playing. In that context they're not in dire straits at all.
Teza copy/pasted the notes straight off the post in the BB and didn't even bother editing them for spelling or grammar before putting them up. MMO-Champ has a longer list than what was posted in the BB and Bibi had it before it was posted here, so you should probably re-evaluate your truthiness factor.
The last time we got a leak similar to this most all of the changes were accurate in theme if not in value, so there's a good chance that the things in the notes are changing in some fashion.
WoR's posts haven't exactly been great sources of accurate info in this lead up to 2.4 (or earlier). If you browse these forums with any frequency you'll see plenty of stories taken straight out of posts here and posted on WoR's front page with no additional corroboration.
WoR & Mmo-Champ could definitely be described as the tabloids of WoW. Take everything on there with a grain of salt.
These notes looked pretty reasonable until I got to the Improved Shadow Bolt change. Shadow Priests already have the lowest DPS by a wide margin; there's no way that they would go out of their way to lower it further.
Edit: One other odd comment, Isnt' the pulse on Tremor Totem currently 4 seconds rather than 5?
Thott and wowhead says it is every 4 seconds, so I can believe it.
Anyway, the MMO-Champion notes are fake because of all the Mage buffs and Warlock nerfs (it looks like a jealous Mage wrote the patch notes up).
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
These notes looked pretty reasonable until I got to the Improved Shadow Bolt change. Shadow Priests already have the lowest DPS by a wide margin; there's no way that they would go out of their way to lower it further.
No? They've steadily nerfed shadowpriests since TBC came out and they were dominating (solely because of FSW/Spellstrike vs melee in blues) so it wouldn't surprise me at all.
After some calm reading, the unconfirmed changes to warlocks are somewhat not understandable. While I might be able to sustain quite some ISB uptime by myself (and the other locks in our guild as well) we'd face an increase in used debuff slots. Which ranking would an ISB have on a mob? Now only the originator consuming the debuff wouldn't neccesarily hurt his or hers dps, rather the opposite. But I see the reduced effectivity of my beloved synergy class and my affliction friends.
Assuming the mentioned hand full of nerfs to everything built up around shadow damage would be true, alone a potential increase of Incinerates coefficient would pass it up to the preferred specc. As consequence CoE ranges over CoS, imp Scorch would be a "must have" and a "must be up all time" (with its stacks renewed on every cast). Does that ring a bell? Right, we had that with Shadow Weaving once and the outcome is well known.
In the end all those changes listed are pve nerfs to locks and not even remotely affecting any decent pvp specc for our class. Just not seeing a reason for that except people flooding the forums with misinformations and their opinions to reduce effectivity of other classes, instead of calling for improvements of their own. Would be disappointed if they'd be real as i never like a class being "nerfed" instead of getting other classes on par with them.
Hope dies last and that is what we can do.
Edit: Sorry for derailing and jumping the bandwagon as that are basically not "2.4 Details, as they arrive" but speculation. Shouldn't participate in it for starters.
__ don't argue with an idiot. he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience __
No? They've steadily nerfed shadowpriests since TBC came out and they were dominating (solely because of FSW/Spellstrike vs melee in blues) so it wouldn't surprise me at all.
One would hope that since we've been nerfed every patch since 2.0 (unless you count the Fear Ward change, but that really wasn't Spriest specific) that the trend wouldn't continue, taking in to account our place on the damage meters and the recent changes to regeneration. I mean, we're looking at like a 10% decrease in damage or more if I'm doing the math in my head correctly.
If the change to ISB goes through I think it would end up being a self buff rather than a debuff. To the best of my knowledge there is no debuff in the game that only applies to you, so it would be logical if the talent itself was changed.
These notes looked pretty reasonable until I got to the Improved Shadow Bolt change. Shadow Priests already have the lowest DPS by a wide margin; there's no way that they would go out of their way to lower it further.
With the amount of utility a shadow priest brings, misery, shadow weaving, group heal/mana, they shouldn't be topping the meters, else why would you bring any other class for most DPS slots after your raid synergies have been met. Remember back to one of the world first Gruul kills, a shadow priest was #1 on damage and #1 on healing done on the same fight, this is exactly what they are trying to avoid. It isn't going change the fact that you'll still want a couple shadow priests around, especially when in progression mode and mana can be an issue for lots of classes.
In regards to someone wondering why blizzard doesn't post notes earlier than they do, it is simple. They don't want to hear you btich about things that might not make the notes and they certainly don't want to remove something from the notes and hear even further bitching about it. You can damn well bet these patch notes go through several internal iterations before the version we see so it would be misleading to everyone to see the first version of the notes as they might not resemble the finished notes at all. You can see this to a lesser extent during the PTR cycle, but that portion of it is inevitable.
Shamans are 8% of the 70 population. Dead last is not surprising; they're dead last of all classes playing. In that context they're not in dire straits at all.
2% of high-rated 2v2 and 3% of 3v3? Sounds pretty bad to me. If it wasn't for the fact that bloodlust is needed in two popular 5v5 setups so that the priest can go nuts/someone can get bursted, it would be obvious that the class needs help as a whole.
If it's not fake, there's tons of information missing. Aside from a totem pulse buff (which has the wrong time in it anyway) those are MASSIVE elemental nerfs. If this went live as is the outcry would be simply insane.
I'll wait for some more reliable information. Those notes just seem silly.
02/06/08, 7:15 PM
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