2.4 PTR and Patch Notes - Page 117

Otterpop · 02/25/08, 7:22 PM

Can everyone PLEASE take all this lifetap bullshit to another thread maybe? I come to this thread to read about the PTR updates as a whole. 3 pages of lifetap QQ is enough, seriously.

Gumibear · 02/25/08, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by marloz

I'm somewhat surprised, or well, to a certain degree - that a 15-20dps (this will of course depend on the length of the fight, but I'm quoting someone a few pages back) nerf on warlocks manages to rattle the cage this much. Yeah yeah, Eyonix and co. justifies it with saying it can be "gamed for an improvement". I'm not backing him up on that, but for wild comparison: Did anyone mention or notice that mages can't Icy Veins under Herosim anymore? That's right. And as far as I've seen, we haven't made any big scene out of it, while it's _still_ ~1% dps loss for our class - although from a PVP perspective, it's simply justified.

Just bear in mind that this game isn't about PVE anymore.

The underlying issue is that one of our mechanics is being changed for the worse for arena PvP. The scaling returns are pretty much ruined until the next expansion.

Fight these changes or it gives Blizzard precedent to keep doing it.

Endahl · 02/25/08, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by Raiste

on a separate note: can someone clarify the very peculiar wording on the mana burn patch note?:

Mana burns no longer drains mana, it only destroys it on the target. The amount of mana removed and shadow damage inflicted remains unchanged. (Destroy 1021 to 1079 mana from a target. For each mana drained in this way, the target takes 0.5 Shadow damage.)

That doesn't seem to be a patch note you're quoting.

The only change there is that they're fixing a long-standing misleading tooltip.

Sillia · 02/25/08, 7:27 PM

Originally Posted by Endahl

That doesn't seem to be a patch note you're quoting.

The only change there is that they're fixing a long-standing misleading tooltip (i.e. priest Mana Burn).

I think the implied question is "Will making mana burn not a drain mean it won't be affected by Resilience?"

marloz · 02/25/08, 7:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gumibear

The underlying issue is that one of our mechanics is being changed for the worse for arena PvP. The scaling returns are pretty much ruined until the next expansion.

Fight these changes or it gives Blizzard precedent to keep doing it.

Because a warlock as a mana-consuming class shouldn't bother about managing it? Hey, come on. I see it as just as justified it is for mages and IV/Heroism. It's a nerf in 5v5, but as I said, justified, just like the lifetap-change are for 'locks in PVP. The fact that it hits us both in PVE is a whole different matter, which.. we cannot do much about with Blizzards current plans for PVP.

Zerchi · 02/25/08, 7:34 PM

Originally Posted by Sillia

I think the implied question is "Will making mana burn not a drain mean it won't be affected by Resilience?"

My bet is that this is just a clean up of syntax. They did something similar for "Shapeshift" versus "Transform" in a previous 2.4 build. Take a look at the changed spells on Thottbot. The description for all the all Druid forms got changed from transform to shapeshift and one or more of the illusion items got changed from shapeshift to transform.

Maybe there are new mechanics coming where such things matter? *shrug*

flyingtoastr · 02/25/08, 7:38 PM

Getting away from the 20 pages of lock complaints (seriously guys, there are class threads for a reason) MMOC had some new changes announced for the latest build, including another PI change (buff).

Druid

* Nurturing instincts now increases healing done to you by 10%/20% while in Cat Form and isn't affected by your Attack Power anymore.

Mage

* Arctic reach now increases Ice Lance along with Frostbolt and Blizzard.

Priest

* Mana Burn's tooltip has been changed to change "Drains" into "Destroys".
* Power Infusion now reduce the mana cost of all spells by -20%. (Now: Infuses the target with power, increasing spell casting speed by 20% and reducing the mana cost of all spells by -20%. Lasts 15 seconds.)

Shaman

* The Ghost Wolf Speed bonus on a few level 60 PvP items no longer affects players above level 60.

marloz · 02/25/08, 7:41 PM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

Getting away from the 20 pages of lock complaints (seriously guys, there are class threads for a reason) MMOC had some new changes announced for the latest build, including another PI change (nerf?).

Truth, wise man. Regards the PI changes, I can't see that as anything else than a.. buff? 20% haste for 15s vs. 20% haste and -20% mana cost?:o

I like the Arctic reach change, no more charge from warriors, /taunt

flyingtoastr · 02/25/08, 7:43 PM

Originally Posted by marloz

Truth, wise man. Regards the PI changes, I can't see that as anything else than a.. buff? 20% haste for 15s vs. 20% haste and -20% mana cost?:o

Look at that, I read it wrong (I thought it had been changed from 20% haste to 20% mana cost reduction, not both at the same time). Yes, that is a pretty nice buff.

♦ Praetorian · 02/25/08, 7:44 PM

Let's drop the Life Tap discussion unless there are new announcements or changes made on the PTR, please. Nothing new is being said.

Rouncer · 02/25/08, 7:45 PM

I'm a bit confused about the mage section. Artic Reach already affects the range of Ice Lance.

gia · 02/25/08, 7:45 PM

Is anyone else having trouble getting on the EU PTR? It keeps telling me that my login info is invalid so I wanted to know if it's just my problem or not.

Illundai · 02/25/08, 7:47 PM

Originally Posted by gia

Is anyone else having trouble getting on the EU PTR? It keeps telling me that my login info is invalid so I wanted to know if it's just my problem or not.

Me and the rest of my still awake guildies have the same issue.

Apophis · 02/25/08, 7:48 PM

Originally Posted by gia

Is anyone else having trouble getting on the EU PTR? It keeps telling me that my login info is invalid so I wanted to know if it's just my problem or not.

same problem

Zerakor · 02/25/08, 7:55 PM

* The Ghost Wolf Speed bonus on a few level 60 PvP items no longer affects players above level 60.

This is slightly confusing, ghost wolf is already a pretty poor travel form, and the drawbacks of using the 60 boots are large.. Why nerf it?

flyingtoastr · 02/25/08, 7:59 PM

Originally Posted by Zerakor

This is slightly confusing, ghost wolf is already a pretty poor travel form, and the drawback of using the 60 boots are large.. Why nerf it?

Just to make sure these is absolutely no reason in hell to use the items ever?

Endahl · 02/25/08, 8:02 PM

I'd call that Blizzard being consistent about wanting to avoid lower level gear affecting level cap play, even situationally. See: Transcendence 3-piece, Luffa, or the combat ratings system.

Pyros · 02/25/08, 8:03 PM

Originally Posted by Zerakor

This is slightly confusing, ghost wolf is already a pretty poor travel form, and the drawback of using the 60 boots are large.. Why nerf it?

Probably because you shouldn't use lvl 60 items a 70. Same way they nerfed HoJ and such stuff. Also might be related to a change they did to improve enhancement that might make it overpowered(like ghost wolf removing snares). Those are just datamined patch notes, who knows all of it yet.

Searix · 02/25/08, 8:04 PM

The arctic reach isn't a change, it's always been there but has never been in the tooltip.

Trickykid · 02/25/08, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Currently the item with stamina and no intellect would be looked on as being better by most locks. If the new mechanic goes into place then it switches and now the item with intellect is arguably potentially superior, since the stamina becomes a secondary consideration since it only plays a role in survival not having anything to do with mana regen.

Stamina doesn't give destro locks any mana regen. Intellect gives them crit and a larger battery. So currently int > stam. This won't "flip" that, it'll just make intellect worth some amount more (depending on the % chosen).
EDIT: Doh, the topic was dropped. Delete please?

Otterpop · 02/25/08, 8:15 PM

Originally Posted by Endahl

I'd call that Blizzard being consistent about wanting to avoid lower level gear affecting level cap play, even situationally. See: Transcendence 3-piece, Luffa, or the combat ratings system.

Agreed. Too bad they can't be that consistent with everything.

One wonders when Azure Silk swim speed increase will stop being overlooked.

Pidge · 02/25/08, 8:17 PM

Even with this change, INT for warlocks won't increase DPS more than an equivalent amount of +spell damage. So even if it were an option, stacking INT won't deflate the DPS nerf this change will bring.

Sillia · 02/25/08, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by Otterpop

Agreed. Too bad they can't be that consistent with everything.

One wonders when Azure Silk swim speed increase will stop being overlooked.

Probably when they decide to put in some sort of encounter that is dependent on swim speed.

Playered · 02/25/08, 9:31 PM

Originally Posted by Sillia

Probably when they decide to put in some sort of encounter that is dependent on swim speed.

Or more likely an underwater arena!:P

How is the Alchemy Lab coming along on the US PTR by the way?

Icywind · 02/25/08, 9:52 PM

Has anybody calculated whether or not the intellect / spirit change will significantly affect the values of percentage-based items like Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon or Bangle of Endless Blessings in current raiding situations?