Wrong spot oops

All of a Priest/Druid's mana problems are solved in 2.4. You don't need a trinket to help with it.

I believe they're just correcting the tooltip, not changing the talent.

I would be shocked if the PTR mana regeneration abilities made it to live. On the theorycrafting thread for the new spirit mechanics, one post computed the value of an Innervate on a standard priest/druid to be 21,000 mana. No that's not a typo. The current mana regen abilities are so insane that if this were put into live, druids and priests would easily be the best healers, period. They wouldn't even need mana pots. This seems a little odd to me, since Blizzard seems to love forcing healers to drink a mana pot every CD, and even encourage this behavior with the Alchemist's Stone.

Has anyone performed testing on the Shattered Sun Offensive Exalted necklaces? I'd just like to get some confirmation on the proc effects, particularly for the Scryers.

So far, Wowhead lists the effects as:

Pendant of Might (physical DPS)
Aldor - 200 AP for 10 seconds
Scryer - Arcane Strike, direct damage proc for 350-450 damage (only via comments, no confirmation)

Pendant of Acumen (caster DPS)
Aldor - 120 spell damage for 10 seconds
Scryer - none found, possibly spell critical strike rating if modeled from shoulder enchants

Pendant of Resolve (tanking)
Aldor - 100 dodge rating for 10 seconds
Scryers - 100 expertise rating for 10 seconds

Pendant of Restoration (healing)
Aldor - 220 healing and 74 spell damage for 10 seconds
Scryer - none found, possibly mana per 5 if modeled from shoulder enchants

Holy crap on a stick. That's like comparing a turd to cream.

That's not entirely true. While the mana regen is going way up, it's still a finite number, and there's still ways to break it. Obviously it all depends on your group setup, but if you assume a druid with no external regen and that innervates a spriest in a dps group, there will be ways to run out of mana. With GCD changes first, and also if you're trying to keep stuff like insect swarm up or need to decurse, which removes the tree form bonus. In a very intensive fight, switching a trinket like the bangle or even better than blue dragon card would make your mana regen skyrocket much more than chain chugging pots. If you're cheap and don't want to drink pots, it also works(at the expense of ~80healing from a better trinket ^^).

But yeah assuming "normal" healing assignments and normal consumable consumption, you're probably not going to bother using a mana regen trinket. I guess you can have fun on easy content tho, like chain casting Wrath between lifebloom refreshes on the tank, with an hybrid dps gear and maybe even a dreamstate build. Makes Kael/Vashj/MH farming more fun for the essences to open the gates(I wouldn't do it in BT because there's too many "hard" fights but well).

P.S.: For the values and stuff, check the int/spirit conversion thread, someone came up with a few numbers on blue dragon. I think it was around 80-90mp5 with T6 gear.

My sentiments exactly. The only consolation I have is that since I'm a Paladin and need to watch out for avoidance, I'd never consciously wear that necklace for serious content anyway, so missing out on the Aldor effect isn't a big deal.

It is pretty interesting that previously it was datamined that the melee neck gave crit rating, possibly now gives a DD attack.

The DD attack seems better than Crit rating (because you know that your proc will do damage, just like increasing AP does).

I don't think that's right for a "standard" druid (400-600 unbuffed spirit, I'd say). A more reasonable expectation would be 9000-14000 mana per innervate. A spirit-stacking druid (800+ spirit) could expect 21000 but that item build is definitely not standard. Compare that to now, where a "standard" set of items would yield 5000-8000 mana per innervate and a spirit-stacker would expect to get around 10000-12000.

It was an assumption comparing the necklaces to the shoulder enchants.

---

Caster necklace is Arcane Bolt - Spells - World of Warcraft - same as the melee proc (333-367 damage). http://elitistjerks.com/648346-post2995.html

Healer necklace is probably Arcane Surge - Spells - World of Warcraft Good luck trying to figure out how that would work.

The changes better to live. *Forcing* people to drink pots every 2mins is indicative of a broken design. Pots should be used to make up for one's lack of gear and/or skill. Full T6 is hardly a "lack of gear" and obtaining that gear is the check for skill.

When one compares Priests/Druids to the other healers and notices that they now go OOM means that their mana-regen mechanism(s) are broken. Fix them too as well so no one will have to spam click consumables. The watershield changes helped, but not enough. In a nutshell, a single consumable should not be 4 times the MP5 of your entire gearset (Super Mana Potion) but should instead be a small subset (ie: Flask of Might Restoration).

Ugh, gotta love being screwed over by a choice you made over a year ago.

It looks like that would heal your target for 618-682 as a proc. Not too bad, but I think the +healing is a little better.

To be fair, Blizzard must either significantly redesign mana potions or balance around their continued use. It would be bad game design to leave a potential 100 mp5 mana source in the game but not balance raid encounters around its existence. Given the existence of mana potions, I do believe that it's good raid design if people feel compelled to drink a lot of them, regardless of whether the potions themselves and subsequent balance issues are evidence of bad overall game design.

My guess is that the buffs to intensity, meditation, water shield, and the spirit formula are less about reducing dependency on mana potions and more about reducing the perceived value of shadow priests. I remember discussions from last year about how a raid with 2-3 shadow priests could do all sorts of amazing things that a raid with zero shadow priests couldn't, mostly because the power of the healers was increased dramatically. That's a lot of stackability for one spec of a class that has three viable raid specs, and I could imagine Blizzard thinking that was an issue.

Wha?

Well maybe I'll get BOO-ed for this, but wouldn't have it been faster to simply nerf spriests mana returns and increase their spell efficiency, so they would still be able to maintain same dps(or higher for that matter), but return less mana to the group? I mean, I like the way they're making it, aka buff the rest to match spriest efficiency, but there's obviously some classes that are still very lacking(hi holy paladins/resto shamans). It all seems pretty obscure, I guess we'll see the big changes with wotlk though, especially with the DK being added in the formula- doubt it will change the mana regen part of the game much, but who knows, maybe they'll have a judgement of wisdom type of thingie.

Anyway is US PTR up? Are US people getting the same problem than us with the login info not being recognized? I've seen euros mention it earlier in the thread but didn't see US people talk about that.

I don't think he refers to disciplin beyond divine spirit, which seems a bit wrong. Technically he's right though, as you have shadow priest, CoH and DS specs. If he had said "three valid raiding trees", then that would be wrong

I wouldn't consider CoH and DS different specs, they're minor variations on the same spec really. It's a huge stretch to call it "three viable raid specs". It's either holy spec or shadow spec. Priests are one of the more highly stackable classes currently, depending how much you're min maxing. It's one class you wouldn't really bat an eye at having 5 in a raid (2 holy, 3 shadow). This distinction I'd say only belongs to priests and shaman currently, I can't see bringing 5 of any other class to a raid and not thinking it strange. 3 shadow priests is a bit excessive though, but we sometimes run with that many if that's what we roll out with.

Yeah, I meant DS, CoH, and shadow.

Edit: I kind of see CoH and DS as different specs since they play very differently on a lot of encounters, but they are both technically holy priests I suppose. Anyway, I think the point remains that priests are pretty stackable compared to other classes, in large part due to the high stackability of shadow priests and the existence of the DS/CoH split. For our alliance guild (read: low on shamans) we don't see anything wrong with having one DS priest, two CoH priests, and 2-3 shadow priests in a raid.

That's probably in the cards, but at this point in the expansion, it would be essentially be robbing 2-3 players in many guilds of their raid spots, as guilds would likely cut down to just 1 in a raid for their debuffs. VT's incredible power seems to have been an accident given that their initial 41-point talent was a heal when Beta began. But to fix the problem at this point of BC's lifespan would just not be worth it.

I disagree completely on Disc not being viable.

I switched to full Disc when we started Hyjal, so we had 1 CoH and 1 Disc at all times. Pain Supression made learning fights far easier than it would have been without it. There is no fight in T6 content that I didn't salvage at one point or another with a well timed PS, and some of them were almost trivialized because of it.

Sure as full Disc your healing is sub-par but you rarely run out of mana. I can do Council with 2 mana pots and heal one of the tanks by my self the entire time, and help with healing raid damage. Where as the Paladins want to be in S.Priest groups and Druids and CoH Priests are taking 5+ innervates.

Pain Suppression is highly underrated. A 8 second shield wall with a 2 minute cooldown? I'm floored that more people don't want this in their raid and would rather have another CH spamming resto or CoH spamming priest.

It would be viable if the healing wasn't so piss poor. I guess most people don't think it's worth giving up half a healer for a single 2 minute cooldown ability.

Edit: looking at it, it will become more viable in 2.4 anyway. Mana problems shouldn't really be an issue so that negates the loss of Holy Concentration. The big loss here is Spiritual Guidance and Spiritual Healing. 25% healing from spirit plus 10% healing off the top of all healing. Not to mention 8% extra +healing on Gheal. This also assumes this person was the Spirit bitch, so they're not sacrificing CoH.

It's a huge tradeoff. The side benefits are an extra 5% stamina (about 350 hitpoints fully raid buffed), 5% intellect and 10% mana (these two go towards making up for Holy Concentration so they aren't really an extra bonus), and Power Infusion which is a very weak ability overall in a raid environment.