Puretide

Just as a clarification, the debuff from FT lasts like 3-4 seconds, so its pretty unreasonable to assume anything but enhancement will be able to keep it up.

 

Chirality

Not to mention that doesn't explain how, under Flametongue Attack debuff, I bandaged myself for 808 instead of 425

 

flyingtoastr

No one answered this, but all of those are removed by Blessing of Freedom (which specifically says "provides immunity to movement impairing effects") so yes, I would assume the new talent reduces all of those as well.

Enjoy your buffs shamans.

I do find this incredibly ironic though. When Paladins asked for n MS debuff on Crusader Strike we were told that the devs wanted to "make them special for only rogues and warriors". Since then we've now seen a ranged DPS and a hybrid getting a healing debuff. Its a little disheartening.

 

Brakar

Hence, the currently buggy PTR version. How they inverse the debuff in the code is a bit boggling though.

 

crimsonsentinel

Flametongue is clearly bugged on PTR atm, which is why I said that my theory isn't currently testable. Hopefully they fix the problem sooner rather than later.

 

Prinsesa

Apologies if this is already offtopic, but in reply:

I don't think its necessarily a lack of creativity as it is Blizzard having painted themselves into a corner. With the introduction of resilience and the scaling of healing and HP in relation to damage, it's quite difficult to kill anything that's being healed without some way to stop the healing.

There are several ways to go about this: Chain-CC/counterspell the healer so he can't heal, run the healer dry of mana, or apply an MS effect so you can burst damage faster than the heals can land.

Think about all of the classes that do well in 2v2:
All 4 healers
Warriors, who have MS
Hunters, who have MS and Viper Sting (although the Viper Sting is probably more often used)
Warlocks, who have Mana Drain
Priests, who have Mana Burn

However, when you think about the classes that do well in 5v5, you'll find that generally anyone can perform well (actual representation notwithstanding). Why? Because even if you don't heal, you don't CC, you don't drain mana and you don't MS, you have 4 other people who can cover that for you.

Within the current context of 2v2, a class has to be able to perform multiple roles in order to cover these bases. So if they wanted to make Enh Shaman more viable in 2v2, they needed for them to be able to fill that role.

Instead of Flametongue Weapon getting an MS effect, we might as well have seen Flameshock getting a mana drain effect, or Stormstrike being given a 5 second spell lockout.

==================

Back to an on-topic question:

Any word on FT's MS proc rate? Given a 4 second duration, would the currently favored 2.60 OH weapon speed be too slow? Will Shaman have to grab a [Gladiator's Shiv]?

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

• Intermission

I think the fast off-hand axe would be better, even if a tiny bit slower (I forget the exact speeds).

For Stormstrike + weapon normalisation reasons. Dagger = 1.8, Axe = 2.6?

edit: itemlink - [Vengeful Gladiator's Hacker] and [Gladiator's Hacker]

 

Tunch

I don't think Stormstrike is normalized, is it?

 

Prinsesa

Good catch. Any one of these:

[Gladiator's Left Ripper]
[Gladiator's Hacker]
[Gladiator's Bonecracker]

Didn't really think of the normalization issue, the Shiv was just the first fast offhand that I thought of.

Yes, it is. Ever since Hemorrhage was normalized, I don't think there are any more un-normalized instant attacks left.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Zorick

From what I saw on the PTR, it was off every auto-attack I did on a target it was refreshed.
So that would make the proc, 100% I guess.

 

Sebudai

We managed to get Flaskataurs tonight on US PvE PTR. "/w sebudaii invite" (two Is) to get in the raid. They're up by Felmyst.

 

• sordee

Were the neckpieces not a good enough upgrade (along with the Jewelcrafter only gems)
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ingneck_v2.jpg

 

Vaccine

Agreed, as a long suffering Alchemist I was hoping for something much greater. If there are no Gem transmutes coming I see no reason to keep this proffession any more over Enchanting or possibly JC. Even LW drums would be a greater effect.

On the new gems, I'm very happy at all these new caster gems. I've been trying to get hold of Crimson Spinels for 10 agility for a while now. Hopefully Pyrestone will now be the gem for most casters (haste/dmg) or possibly even the pure haste gems. A good use for Seasprays is great though, I know our stockpile of hundreds is going to flood into mains and alts arena gear but at least they've got uses now.

 

quke

Even if the new Life Tap is currently a slight PvE DPS buff assuming you don't die from 3k hp hits, what the hell Blizzard?! We whined about the working mechanism and they add a few new ranks of the same stuff. The spell still scales negatively not only with the current itemization but also with two "compulsory" talents (because you must spend the first 20 points in Demo into those talents or some totally useless crap that has no effect to anything any warlock has done since lvl20) and the main defense ability Blizzard has been buffing since they realized how bad Fear is as a defense ability in every imaginable way.

 

Axanor

I dunno, having the option of a "free" 40 damage or 54 spell hit is pretty incredible for me.

As an alchemist, you can easily transmute the mats over the course of a few weeks.

 

Thairne

Having a MS Debuff von Autoattack with Flametounge... i can´t help it, but this seems insanely broken.
Every other class has to sacrifice something to get it.
Warriors actually have to manage their rage if they want to keep MS on the target. "Suffering" a dodge/parry, being easily cc´ed and, at times, not having the rage might well drop of the MS Debuff on a target.
Hunters have a 3 second cast time, which especially in the lower brackets is quite an impedement.
Rogues have so sacrifice either mind numbing poison or crippling and need to proc it at first.
But Shaman get it on their offhand with every auto? Correct me if I´m wrong, but wasn't WF changed to only be usable on one weapon when dualwielding (or some variation thereof)?
In the targeted bracket of 2on2 WF Totem doesnt make sense for most setups anyway since you want to run with a healer as backup. So with the changed toughness and basically no cost and effort they get a 50% healing debuff for just... being there?
I could see this being viable if it would trigger of the PROC of flametongue. That way you´d have to decide due to the proc penalty on offhand enchants... More WF Procs? Or more Healing Debuffs? Or even more snares? Options, but nothing like a guaranteed MS.

 

Emily

Dropping WF from the offhand is a noticeable dps loss.

 

urotas

It's not free when you have to sacrifice a trinket slot for it. Only the healing alchemist's stone is any good. The melee and tank trinkets are crappy. The caster trinket is very situational, mostly only useful if you can make full use of both the mana potion and the spell hit benefits. Considering that most T6+ gear is filled with spellhit, I don't see a lot of people seeing a use for that either. If this is the only planned change to alchemy, I'll almost certainly reroll from alchemy.

 

spanko

Its a huge dps loss, especially for burst in pvp.

 

Maledict

The caster trinket isn't situational, it's downright pointless. There's no possible way to use 54 spell hit in tier 6 & 7 gear - it's simply too much, and put's you well over the hit cap. Combine that with DPS casters wanting to use destruction pots over mana pots anyway, and I don't see why anyone would use this. Fundamentally, the fact remains that most classes don't use healing or mana potions, so having the major effect on the trinket be a boost to those means the trinket is wasted outside of healers. The only caster class that does make regular use of mana potions (Arcane specced mages) doesn't ever need 54 spell hit thanks to the 10% to hit talent.

Also, Blizzard need to adjust the primal requirements on these. 16 primals of one type is too many - it needs to be roken down into 8 of one type and 8 of another.

 

Karura

And how big is "huge"? 1%? 5%? 50%? I would personally like to see the result on whether the effective dps is increased or decreased in a scenario where an Enhancement shaman with WF MH and FT OH auto attacks a target that's getting a constant heal spammed upon compared to an Enhancement shaman with WF on both MH and OH. Until that test is done no one can claim if this change is an increase or a decrease in shaman (specifically Enhancement) dps.

 

• sordee

Actually speaking about that, it would probably be balanced if the debuff worked like Wound poision, and stack at 10% ranks and lasted 10 seconds (or at least in 16% increments)
But as it is, it seems incredibly broken (and one I'm looking well forward to using on my Enh Shaman)

And yes it is a minor DPS burst loss by not having the second chance for a Windfury proc every 3 seconds. But it a hugely acceptable loss, (much less then the 35 rage for MS, more like in the Hamstring 10 rage range)

(And of course if you want real PVP burst, you are going with Two-Hander with WF)


Additional thoughts, this will be a Magic effect, no? So its one thing a Priest can Dispel? (Finally)

 

urotas

It seems like a physical effect based on http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...nguedebuff.jpg

 

Anedris

Given that in the situation described, the FT effect doubles the shaman's DPS (healing on target reduced by 50%), I find it rather hard to believe that offhand windfury would be greater than that.

I am a little tired of this "Give everyone an MS effect!" pattern. It's just... boring.

Regards the alch stones, it's needed, but none of them are spectacular. The spell hit could be useful (since most Sunwell gear has hit only if you socket it for hit) but even if you can use all the hit probably doesn't far outpace other non-profession-bound alternatives. The healer one is nice enough, and certainly very powerful if you're chain-potting, but as someone who tries to avoid chain-potting whenever possible, it doesn't really dazzle me.

 

◊ Cadfael

What is the progression state on Sunwell Isle on the US PTRs regarding unlocking the alchemy lab ?