New lifetap rank 3: 20% max health for 20% max mana.
Rank 1 and 2 are 5%/5% and 12/12% respectively.
This brings back all the concerns on stamina scaling negatively but I'm hoping we haven't seen the last of lifetap changes.
How's it working for lower level warlocks on the current PTR? At what levels do you get the different ranks? At the level where you only have Rank 1, how does 5% of (presumably) very little health/mana compare to the current values for lower ranks? It would seem very strange of Blizzard to muck up the levelling game as they've historically taken a lot of care over it.
The tank trinket is actually pretty good I'd say. Not counting the clicks on Moroes Lucky Pocket Watch and Scarab of Displacement, it's up there for one of the highest passive avoidance trinkets in the game. Combining that with Shadowmoon Insignia is the highest passive avoidance you can get.
I saw it recommended here and before on the WoW Test forums, but I really don't think they should make the 40% benefit apply to Ironshields. That would be 1000 armor from the trinket, and while right now there are no fights that are balanced around having people run OOM is a limiting factor, so they don't balance around the Alch stones, 1000 constant armor on a tank is something they'd balance around, and honestly, even if they didn't, it would make it absolutely required for tanks to go Alchemy, 1000 armor is just too huge on what is already a pretty solid trinket.
I saw it recommended here and before on the WoW Test forums, but I really don't think they should make the 40% benefit apply to Ironshields. That would be 1000 armor from the trinket, and while right now there are no fights that are balanced around having people run OOM is a limiting factor, so they don't balance around the Alch stones, 1000 constant armor on a tank is something they'd balance around, and honestly, even if they didn't, it would make it absolutely required for tanks to go Alchemy, 1000 armor is just too huge on what is already a pretty solid trinket.
Would not have to be 40% on ironshields. They could make the tank one defense as a stat and the effect could be 10% on ironshield pots without the healing/mana pot addition. They could then make the melee ones some %age of haste pots. Things like that. I however would rather see the buff being maybe 20%-40% increased effect from flask/elixirs (in some cases duration where a numerical effect does not apply). Doing that is a far more universal buff than for pots.
My question is can i now use 2 alchemist stones since technically they have different names. Unlikely would be amusing if you could.
Would not have to be 40% on ironshields. They could make the tank one defense as a stat and the effect could be 10% on ironshield pots without the healing/mana pot addition. They could then make the melee ones some %age of haste pots. Things like that. I however would rather see the buff being maybe 20%-40% increased effect from flask/elixirs (in some cases duration where a numerical effect does not apply). Doing that is a far more universal buff than for pots.
My question is can i now use 2 alchemist stones since technically they have different names. Unlikely would be amusing if you could.
I'm wary of any effect that buffs something the game is balanced around. A 20% flask buff might not be too bad, 100 hp is on par with the 8 stats from enchanting, but combining buffs like that with what is already a pretty good trinket is pushing required for raiding.
I could see the value in buffing the trinkets maybe, since no, an extra 12 defense rating over Scarab of Displacement isn't on par with 8 stats even from enchanting, but it's pretty good already, so I wouldn't buff it much.
The biggest problem I have with the Alchemy stones is: Who will actually benefit from them VS satisfying alchemists from all different gear/spec/raiding levels.
If your a T4/5 geared caster - the bonus hit from the Hitstone is welcome. If your a T4/5 arcane mage, the critstone + TLC might be fun to play around with, too. However at the T6 level - most of us have capped out our hit, we dont need that stone. We are using Skull/Icon/Hexhead in trinket slots. While its certainly possible to wear the crit trinket, theres really no compelling reason to do it. I dont really consider it a 'profession perk' when the only option you have is using a situational/gimmick item you dont really need in the first place, or have better available anyway. We (speaking as a fire mage) dont run OOM enough to really use the proc except on situational fights (shahraz, council). Of course, this is drastically different for healers.
Assuming Skull always takes up one trinket slot, the other slot is up for grabs between Hex/Icon/+crit Alch stone. I will always take Hex/Icon unless theres a specific fight where Im going to run oom (again, not likely to happen).
Summary: The Alch stones are a step in the right direction, but not far enough.
Its unfortunate they range from fantastic (As good as Memento) for some people to borderline useless/situational/gimmicky for others (T6 fire mages) simply because of the Alchemists class/spec. This isnt the same as other profession perks like enchanting, where Everyone will welcome +12 dam enchants to their ring, or jewelcrafting: where everyone will appreciate their +15 damage gem.
I find it a little dissappointing that my class/spec excludes me from really having a compelling use or need for this profession perk. I dont want a overpowered item, I just want something a little more exciting than 4 pre-set items which might not even be wanted due to their itemisation and my current gear.
I will agree with other alchemists and say this situation is very 'meh', at best.
As an endgame raiding Fury Warrior and Alchemist I'm looking at the new trinkets and thinking 'meh'.
54 crit is kind of ok if you dont have access to endgame gear. However look at the dps plate chest that blacksmiths get, clearly a winner.
As for the 40% buff to effects from health pots...
Really I can count on one hand the amount of times I absolutely must use a health pot in a raid. The cooldown is usually used due to quaffing haste pots whenever possible.
It really needs to give a passive buff to all potions, elixirs and flasks to become worthwhile. Quite how much of a buff is debatable.
About flametounge and the DPS decrease, mobility aside (I still think the warrior has more.), its a huge buff in many brackets for shamans. Warriors really aren't massive damage dealers in arena's, their damage is excellent, yes, but I would put a ton of other classes and specs well above them in how much damage they can deal, all things like poles considered.
However, the MS effectively allows the warrior to deal twice as much damage, since your not DPS'ing the current HP of the target, rather the HPS and HPM his healer can throw out. The thing is though, I wonder what effect this will have on warrior populations in 2v2. Shamans, from the very few I have seen around 2k, deal quite a bit more damage in 3v3 then their warrior counter parts. Combine that with a range interrupt and grounding totems, I would guess that they are going to be better against druids then a warrior would be.
They also have the happy side effect of taking less damage overall then a warrior, thanks to the lack of the zerk stance penalty.
I guess we will see, but this is a pretty massive boost in viability..I don't want to break it down into absurd comparisons, but really, the MS debuff on a warrior is very strong and the warrior has very little outside utility, its just damage, MS, mobility. Shamans obviously will have all that now and more (Less mobility though.)
Just food for thought, and I don't think anyone can really predict how this will unfold, because the hunter's MS effect has huge drawbacks, its not close to the warriors in sustainability during a match. The shamans though, will be.
(...)In summary - the Alch stones are a nice idea, but its unfortunate they range from fantastic for some people (healers) to borderline useless/situational for othesr (T6 fire mages) simply because of your class/spec. This isnt the same as enchanting, where Everyone will welcome +12 dam enchants to their ring, or jewelcrafting: where everyone will appreciate a +15 damage gem.
The Alch stone changes are a nice start, but I find it a little dissappointing that my class/spec excludes me from really having a compelling use or need for this 'profession perk', unlike the aforementioned Enchanting/JC examples.
To fix that, they'd have to think of a way of making the trinkets useful for warriors/rogues too. 40% more on healing pots rarely matters, something like shortening the pot cooldown would be more useful.
To fix that, they'd have to think of a way of making the trinkets useful for warriors/rogues too. 40% more on healing pots rarely matters, something like shortening the pot cooldown would be more useful.
I'd be a little miffed if my profession perk was the privilege of spending gold on consumables more often.
To me, all the new Alchy trinkets look rather lackluster, given the amount of effort I'd have to put into making one.
16 Primal Life's and two badge purchased Vortex's are near nothing for a trinket of that quality IMHO...seeing as I already have all the mats I need, being that some of the primal's were bought, and I have 9 billion badges to do nothing with since shaman healing gear itemization in teh form of badge loot was...crap. Yay FREE trinket.
The biggest problem I have with the Alchemy stones is: Who will actually benefit from them VS satisfying alchemists from all different gear/spec/raiding levels.
If your a T4/5 geared caster - the bonus hit from the Hitstone is welcome. If your a T4/5 arcane mage, the critstone + TLC might be fun to play around with, too. However at the T6 level - most of us have capped out our hit, we dont need that stone. We are using Skull/Icon/Hexhead in trinket slots. While its certainly possible to wear the crit trinket, theres really no compelling reason to do it. I dont really consider it a 'profession perk' when the only option you have is using a situational/gimmick item you dont really need in the first place, or have better available anyway. We (speaking as a fire mage) dont run OOM enough to really use the proc except on situational fights (shahraz, council). Of course, this is drastically different for healers.
Assuming Skull always takes up one trinket slot, the other slot is up for grabs between Hex/Icon/+crit Alch stone. I will always take Hex/Icon unless theres a specific fight where Im going to run oom (again, not likely to happen).
In summary - the Alch stones are a nice idea, but its unfortunate they range from fantastic for some people (healers) to borderline useless/situational for others (T6 fire mages) simply because of the Alchemists class/spec. This isnt the same as enchanting, where Everyone will welcome +12 dam enchants to their ring, or jewelcrafting: where everyone will appreciate a +15 damage gem.
Its definetely a step in the fight direction. but I find it a little dissappointing that my class/spec excludes me from really having a compelling use or need for this 'profession perk', unlike the aforementioned Enchanting/JC examples. I dont want a overpowered item, I just want something a little more innovative and exciting that is useful for everyone than 4 pre-set options like that.
Lots of gear without any +hit in sunwell, it shouldnt be impossible to gear around this stone from what I can see.
For arcane mages ( if viable, I have no clue if it is with the new gear ) and SP its probably not doable as the stone basicly contains all +hit they need considering you take head enchant as well.
Question is however, is the dps increase you notice from picking other items + more mana from pots large enough to offset the loss you get from the trinket ( Most will probably switch out DMF card / Hexlord trinket or icon of silver crescent ). Admitted, I havent done the math, but I doesnt seem unlikely to me. You need to make up about 80-90 dps from trinket which seems plausable. 40 mana per 5 equals about 20-30 dps ( ? ) so what remains is like 50-70 dps from 3 items by taking more haste/damage/crit. Defenitely possible Id say , although I havent studied the loot that carefull for optimal composition.
I'm wary of any effect that buffs something the game is balanced around. A 20% flask buff might not be too bad, 100 hp is on par with the 8 stats from enchanting, but combining buffs like that with what is already a pretty good trinket is pushing required for raiding.
I could see the value in buffing the trinkets maybe, since no, an extra 12 defense rating over Scarab of Displacement isn't on par with 8 stats even from enchanting, but it's pretty good already, so I wouldn't buff it much.
I agree that 1k additional armor on Ironshields would probably pigeonhole any tank. On the other hand: yes, the trinket has more passive effects than the scarab or the pocketwatch. But it offers no real oh shit button effect which is what I really need from a tanking trinket. Nothing is more frustrating than running out of cooldowns and dying. Perhaps a 20% Buff or a Flask/Fortitude Elixir buff would be nice.
Note: I'm not that unhappy that the stone isn't required. I didn't go enchanting myself and I actually like having one gathering profession on my main. But on the other hand alchemy didn't offer anything to a tank til now which is why this is a nice change. Nevertheless its effect could be improved.
One idea that occured to me: lengthening the effect of Ironshield potions. It might not make you more powerful but at least your financial burdens are eased :P
To fix that, they'd have to think of a way of making the trinkets useful for warriors/rogues too. 40% more on healing pots rarely matters, something like shortening the pot cooldown would be more useful.
I hope they consider other potential alchemy-only perks besides a trinket with this bonus. The +40% bonus is a cool idea - but I hope they move on and think of another way to satisfy Alchemists without stealing a trinket slot for a bonus many of us dont even need or want in the first place.
Lots of gear without any +hit in sunwell, it shouldnt be impossible to gear around this stone from what I can see.
What you said is true. The lack of +hit on sunwell gear will increase the value of the Hitstone for some - as it allows you to compensate by stacking massive +hit in that trinket slot. However some classes/specs (eg Arcane mages) wouldnt dont want the hit anyway.
Its great that we have a couple items now that will benefit various people - but Id like to see something that we can all universally benefit from. Ring enchants are a good example (+24 damage all up) - transferring that to alchemy - If we had something small like +25% bonus to damage from Alchemy pots (about +18 dam extra from a +70 flask), thatd be a nice start and welcomed by everyone of that profession: regardless of your class, spec or level of progression.
How's it working for lower level warlocks on the current PTR? At what levels do you get the different ranks? At the level where you only have Rank 1, how does 5% of (presumably) very little health/mana compare to the current values for lower ranks? It would seem very strange of Blizzard to muck up the levelling game as they've historically taken a lot of care over it.
For a Gnome Warlock I've been levelling in my spare time it's a loss of ~2 mana per tap when you first get Life Tap, but the health cost gets reduced by approximately 66% compared to the current form.
Gnomes do have heavily inflated mana versus health totals at low levels though, I'm unsure how it'd work out on the warlock races that start with their health and mana closer to each other.
buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
The tanking Alchemy trinket is a missed opportunity- there are no raiding trinkets with armour on them, it's one of the biggest itemisation holes for druids. I would like to see a mix of armour, defence and sta then all three tank classes could be happy to an extent.
Currently there's one trinket equivalent to/ better than an Illidan drop.
There's one trinket absolutely inferior to an Illidan drop- the caster dps one vs Skull of Gul'dan.
The tank and melee dps ones are really quite poor: neither role gets much benefit out of the 40% extra from potions (Maybe Ret/ Enh shamans on Kaz'rogal?), Warriors chain Ironshields on progression content.
The simplest solution to making the the melee/ tank items useful would be to replace the potion buff with a Flask/ Elixir buff of 40%: +40% to a 500 hp flask is 200 hp- there's no way that's game breaking in comparison to ~1250 hp from the endurance racial. +40% to Relentless Assault is 48 AP, combined with the crit rating the trinket might be worth considering.
It is nice to see that Blizzard is doing something to make Alchemy more useful to have on mains, but as has been said before, these trinkets are not quite equal for different classes/specs.
I for one doubt that I'll use that trinket for its pure passive avoidance. Sure, it's a bit more than the Pocket Watch or Scarab of Displacement, but the lack of an on use ability and the almost useless 40% on Health Potions does not really convince me. I would prefer a +~16% Dodge use (Pocket Watch) over a bit more passive avoidance.
I think a good way to go would be a combination of a few suggestions that have been made in this thread already:
Make the Trinket customizable (Gem slots), possibly leave some passive stats on it, and adjust the effect on Potions. For example have a trinket with a bit of Defense Rating, an appropriate number of sockets (3? I am unsure as to how many sockets would be 'ok' without making it overpowered), and the passive to increase Ironshield Potions by x%. For melees put some crit rating as passive, and increase the effect of Haste Potions, etc.
Anyway, I am hoping this won't be the final word on alchemy. I do not really want to drop it, due to the time/gold spent in some not so common recipes and the fact that there are not that many alchemists left in our Guild.
Nothing prevents a druid that aint in global cooldown not to use a pot
Well, you do lose all (or most) of your rage, but that's probably not that big of a deal.
I personally like the tanking stone. It's got almost 1/2 of the DEF I need to be crit immune, freeing me to enchant and gem my gear in other ways. I've been using the Pocketwatch and Badge of Tenacity as my tanking trinkets, I'll probably end up dropping the Pocketwatch for this.
The healing trinket is awesome I must agree with that, the only problem is I have alchemy on my alt already and yes it is very easy to level but to sacrifice my current combo of: Blacksmith and Enchanting would make me cry considering the HUGE cost of actually leveling these to begin with. I may consider dropping Blacksmithing once I craft the Sunwell Chest/Gloves for the Pala and then get alchemy for the trinket. At times like this I wish I could have another profession!
Another brilliant change is if they buffed enchanting a bit more due to sure +20 healing on rings is nice but compared to some other profession upgrades etc ie. the new alch stones, it kind of makes enchanting inferior and yes they added another 2 patterns or so for enchanting but they are crap anyway, make it +40 healing or something and for the casters more spell damage like +25 or something etc etc. ah time will tell.
02/28/08, 9:41 AM
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