I have a level 46 lock alt, currently LT costs 582 HP for 582 Mana. I have 2000HP and 2400 Mana. I'm not sure what levels the new ranks are learned at, assuming I'd have the 5% ones that's 100 HP for 120 Mana.

Now here's a great idea. 40% extra duration to the haste / destruction / ironshield pot wouldn't be bad at all. 40% armour on the ironshield would be clearly OP. A ~15% buff to the potion effect wouldn't be bad, but you'd start to clutter up the item with convoluted rules for each potion. 40% duration would be at least something more valuable for those of us who don't use mana & health pots. Tanks still won't get as much additional benefit as duration on haste or destruction, but It's better than nothing.

Regarding hitcapped Alchemists- The healing trinket's +40 spelldamage sure seems like a good alternative to the +54 hit for many classes.

In my opinion, enchanters should get belt enchants at least and maybe even neck! haha

Its a nice idea, but I would only buy into this deal if we had some more control over the itemisation of the stone. As mentioned in other posts - many class/spec simply have no need (or no upgrade/reason to use) for some of the preset itemised stones offered.

Now if a stone had something like:

- modest passive stats
- 3 sockets
- double duration on desctrution type pots
- 25% bonus to flasks

Id be a little more interested. Now thats something everyone could be interested in for progression content. Doesnt seem too overpowered (when you consider the opportunity cost to get it, aka losing hex/skull/darkmoon).

The biggest problem with using a trinket slot for a profession perk is - its using a trinket slot. Good trinkets are really good. Its hard to replace that slot , which often has items with fun/unique bonuses , with a static poorly itemised item.

Id much rather give up my wand/ranged slot for a profession perk if I had the choice, for example. If they really insist on alchemy using a trinket slot - they should buff it to be something respectable to be worthy of edging out other trinkets to wear.

Apart from the fact that +40 to spell damage on a trinket slot is unbelieably bad caompared to pretty much any other item around. Remember these are suppossed to be equivalent to the other crafting professions in Sunwell, and whilst Tailoring / Engineering / Blacksmithing all give you incredible items that look to be best in slot, alchemy currently gives you a trinket that outside of healers looks to be extremely underwhelming at best.

Fundamentally, the issue is that dps don't drink health & mana potions that much, and so a trinket whose main ability is to boost those doesn't have much effect. It needs to do something better, and it needs stats that at least make it in the same ball partk to the tier 6 items available, putting alchemy on the same level as every other crafting profession.

People need to remember what items these trinkets are competng against. The Skull of Guldan and Hex-Lords Head are amazingly good, and right now these trinkets don't even compare to the Icon of th eBlessed Crescent or the Serpent Coil Braid.

EDIT : Actually, the Serpent Coil Braid might be a good example for them to learn from here. Adjust the base stats so that each stone is better itemised (or at least dps ones - again, 54 spell hit is *terrible* for many, many classes). Add on a proc effect to the extra health / mana effect to make up for the fact you won't be able to chain drink destruction potions. So for the sorcerers stone, have health & mana potions give you an extra 200 spell damage and 50 spell haste rating for 15 seconds or something. And make sure you count Mad Alchemist Potions for triggering the effect... .

They're linked all over the standard news sites, and several pages back in this very thread. Do some leg work.

There are a few ideas I can think of to make the stones better without making them so good that everyone has to get alchemy:

1) Add an appropriate "on potion use" effect, the idea being similar to the the Mage trinket. When you use a potion, gain 150 defense
/175 spell damage/330 healing/270 attack power or whatever.


2) Lengthen the duration of any duration based potions/elixirs/flasks by 40%. So you get 48 seconds more on those ironshield pots, 6 seconds on haste/destro pots and so on.

Its nice to see they've noticed that currently Alchemy gives you basically as much benefit on an alt as it does on a main at least.

Edit: Yeah, these ideas were already posted above. This is what happens when you type a post between trash pulls and hit post after the boss dies.

What if instead of 40% increased mana/hp from potions, the trinket lowered the cooldown on your potion timer by 25/40/50% (the number to be decided for balance). This would allow a higher uptime for destruction/haste potions for dpsers, while allowing healers to get more mana back at a cost. Having the buff this way would also prevent any imbalance caused by having 40% better ironshields, since the duration on the ironshield buff is two minutes.

The other sideeffect would be that it will allow more reactive freedom for the alchemist. I know plenty of times where I've used a mana gem and super mana potion, and faced a situation where a pot timer being up made the difference between survival and death.

Edit: grammer.

Giving more mana per use offers one advantage, that being using cheaper potions, instead of Supers. While not the most important reason to get the trinket, it's decent. Lowering timer only increases your costs, plus you possibly get "a must have" profession.

Just checked on the PTR:
The buff from the Flamtongue Totem does not apply the healing debuff.

The debuff from the Flametongue weapon enchant currently increases healing received, not healing done.

As for how that can happen? I'm guessing that instead of multiplying the Healing received with 0.5 they instead are dividing by 0.5.

This is where I hoped they might go with the Alch stones and also the Engi injectors, having a shorter / seperate CD would assist in PVE and would not imbalance the Arena as they are not usable there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be a whole bunch of new items without spell hit on them in Sunwell and instead have haste.

Casters might be hit-capped atm but when they replace their gear (if they do) with this haste instead of hit, they might find the +54 on the trinket quite useful. They will be able to get more haste in turn not worrying about being hit capped.

Separating the cooldowns efectively doubles the mp5 you could get out of mana potions.
That would make it the required profession for progression healing, and, at the same time exacerbate the pot chugging issue some people are complaining about.

I already use the current Alchemist trinket. As a paladin, I find the +15 all stats to be useful. (Ignoring spirit, that's 60 "useful stat points" + the 40% pot bonus)


All of the Alchemist Stone's "upgrades" are one stat. 54 crit/tank/spellhit rating, or 100~ of +heal. For non-hybrid classes, that's probably better. For me, it isn't. Especially because I use the Alchemist Stone in both my DPS and healing sets, and I'd end up "needing" to make a 2nd trinket to keep both sets up to date.

It isn't an upgrade for non-hybrid classes either, except healers. 54 spell hit is all well and good, but even the Sunwell gear that lacks spellhit still has it on some pieces( such as the redone tier 6 bracers / boots / belts), and there isn't going to be a 54 spell hit gap. Plus, that's only for warlocks - for mages, Shadowpriests, Elemental Shaman and Boomkin we simply won't be able to use 54 spellhit.

Combine that with the fact that we don't use the other part of the trinket much at all, and you're left wondering what exactly the purpose is. Please remember, these are suppossed to be the "best in slot" item, equivalent to the crafted robes, the engineers hats and all the other crafted items in Sunwell. It shouldn't be a "possibly I'll use this on Kaz'Rogal if mana starved or Mother Shazrah if my spell hit drops due to resist gear". These should at *least* be items that make the Serpent Coil Braid or Sextant of Unstable Currents look bad - and at the moment, they don't at all.

(How is the 40 spell damage free? I could get more use out of Neltharions Tear, a 2 year old trinket, than I could the 40 spell damage trinket. The cost of equipping one of these trinkets is huge - think of the options we have available to us in Tier 6 / 7, and then compare these trinkets.)

We need to stop thinking of these as curios, or "occasionaly useful if I'm mana starved items". They need to be comparable to the best in slot item if they are to do what needs doing - give players a reason for having alchemy on their main character. Right now, only healers can say that they are worth it, and the others need fixing to bring them inline.

Then do so. It's not that much to make another, certainly on par with other craftable gear.

Also you only would want the old stone for your Ret set. It's really nothing at all useful for Tanking. More mana? 15 stam?

None of the new alchemist stone look particulary interesting unless you are an healer (like the original alchemist stone).


A better overall buff to alchemist would be to simply let alchemist use an extra elixir.
That means 3 elixirs (2 of one type and then another of the other type) OR a flask + one elixir.

You would end up with say enchanters have +12dmg x2 on their rings forever versus a caster being able to take an adept's elixir that would give sightly more power but for only one hour (and you have to keep drinking them every hour).
Or someone taking an elixir of mastery (+15 to all) versus two +4rings (maybe the extra elixir would have to get a 30% nerf or something but overall it would definitly add flavor to the profession)

It would make alchemy "less" profitable as you keep spending herbs in extra elixirs, while providing a comparable boost to what other professions get.

I don't know enough about Caster classes and talents to answer this, but I wonder if there are any classes/specs where using the 54 hit rating alchemist's stone would allow you to retalent and pick up something else. I took a quick look at Efejel's talent set up (the guy who wrote the Moonkin DPS spreadsheet in class mechanics) and right now he has 2 talent points in Balance of Power (4% spell hit, -4% to be hit by spells).

If he equipped the alchemist's stone, which provides about 4% spell hit, he could drop those talent points and have a choice between:

2/3 imp FF: 2% Hit for all ranged and melee in the raid
2/3 Intensity: 20% of your mana regeneration continues while casting.

I would think alot of casters would jump at a trinket that gave either of those as abilities, especially the 20% regen one. Would any other classes benefit from retalenting around having the 54 hit stone?


(Note: Armory is kind of screwy for me so I can't guarantee I'm reading his current talent set exactly right, I know he has Balance of Power though)

Hm, let's see. General consensus seems to be the Sunwell 3T6 + old T6 hat. 16+20+28+0 = 64 hit.
JC ring, ZA ring, Reliquary neck, head enchant for 19+18+15+14 = 66 hit. 130 hit so far.
Skull-that-never-drops-and-everyone-needs = 25 hit. 155 total then.
Alchemy trinket without an elemental shaman puts warlocks just over the cap.

So, you can use up to ~50 spell hit, which mean dropping 5 hit gems for haste/dmg, getting the equivalent of ~60 damage.
So, the stone is ~60 damage from regemming, and 13 DPS ~ 13 damage from the potion improvement.

Seems like the trinket situation hasn't really changed. There are half a dozen trinket of similar power, and the skull.


Similar for mages, by the way - we have 3% more hit, but only 13+15+14 = 42 spell hit, 1.8% less from talents.

Ghostly Strike is not normalized on live.

re: Caster Trinket

I know this maybe semi obvious, but wouldn't casters enjoy setting up a gear set for 12% hit that they can use on all heroics/trash, and then simply swap in the Alchemy Trinket for a boss level mob, which coincidentally also be only time they ever consider using a potion?

(And yes, I know its still terrible for Elemental Shaman)