/shrug

I like having generalist items, and I qualified my opinion with "for me". Unless you would like to dictate to me which items I should like and which ones I should not, there's nothing to discuss here.



Other people don't care for the trinkets for other reasons, and I did not claim that my post represented them. I just pointed out that I'm not the only one who thought, "meh".

True, but you and I both know that 65 spell damage is inferior to the current trinkets available, as well as 108 AP. We already have multiple better versions of both of those theoretical trinkets, some released as recently as last patch. At least a spell hit rating trinket will fill a slight itemization hole. As for the crit one, I'm not sure what to say there except it's more crit than any other trinket available with a neat secondary bonus?

I'm waiting for a 50% healing reduction on the fireball dot to buff fire mages in pvp...

Jokes aside, if flametongue totem gets the MS effect as stated in the patch notes it's a pretty huge change to the arena metagame, I mean a warlock could be putting the debuff just by hitting with his staff, this can't be what they had in mind can it?

It is a 4 second debuff. What is he going to do. Whack the opponent, use one spell, (hope its not a long cast one like SB or the debuff falls), whack the opponent again and so on? Do people even think this will be effective? Any caster trying to melee someone to death is opening themselves up to being nuked into the ground. But sure, have fun melee'ing me to death with a lock while I laugh at all the better things he could be doing. To echo something from the BB thread on this.

have to say though, it's a fairly elegant change - if you look at who it buffs and where, it makes a lot of sense:

In 5v5 - buffs: Rogues (who needed a little something in 5v5), fury warriors (definitely could use something to bring them more in line with MS - even with this they aren't equal to arms warriors), Enhance shaman (def. needed the buff), and ret pallies. Nobody else hits in melee, and running your mage in to apply the debuff is silly.

In 3s and 2s, this would be a big buff for rogues, except that shaman/rogue was underpowered in 2v2 already (not the rogue's fault), and there aren't any 3v3 shaman/rogue/x matchups that couldn't use a little boost. Same goes for fury warriors, and enhance shaman needed a boost in 2s and 3s across the board.

All in all, it looks like a well targetted buff.

What is the secret of the Twins trash?

First on the note of the Alchemists trinkets, I think some people have the right idea, Alchemy doesn't have to provide the best in slot trinket for every class to be a viable profession, the game would be pretty stupid if you had to change professions every patch because they added a new "best in slot" item. The trinkets for some classes (healers) are amazing, for other classes (tanks) they're pretty good, that should be fine. I don't think Blizzard wants to force anyone to absolutely have to have a certain profession, but a lot of the suggestions are going that way. Yes, it's great that you have Alchemy, yes it'd be cool to get a nice trinket for that, but for the rest of us, we shouldn't have to drop and level a profession just because of new trinkets. You might see something in WotLK I would guess where they swap it around, but for the most part, the best professions for each class have remained the same throughout the expansion.

On the note of Flametounge Totem, that's an interesting design decision. Ret Pally's and Fury Warriors could become legitimate main dps classes with that, casters could lose the time to cast a spell to melee someone (also being risky by getting close, and has to be like timed as part of a burst with other casters pretty much, not something we'd see much) if it goes in like this, I would expect a lot of changes to what is viable.

For those of us not so familiar with shaman totems, Flametongue totem provides the temporary weapon enchant that procs on each melee attack?

As a temporary weapon enchant, it would replace WF or poisons?

It's like Windfury. Puts a pulsing weapon buff on your MH, which means you can't use poisons or WF.

I have a question regarding the new alchemy trinkets.
Is it actually possible to have the Tier1 and Tier2 trinkets (you loose Tier1 when crafting Tier2. could you just make a new tier1 though?)?
Tier1 is going to be amazing for me as a Druid Healer with the Spirit/Int changes in 2.4 (It is already an awesome trinket). Wearing both of them at the same time would be kind of overkill =P.

PS: Sorry for my horrible (school) english, its my first post.

Edit: My bad, didn't look it up it's stated on the infobox that the effects don't stack.

How about say a warlock/resto team against a frost mage/shaman? Icelance is instant so it doesn't reset autoattack timer. You're not in any more danger by being in melee, quite the opposite. Sure it's a pretty stupid anecdote but what the hell.

The potion effect will not stack.

Paladin instant spells don't reset the swing timer either, I believe (Enh Shaman + Paladin combo)?

There'd be no reason whatsoever for the pally to be hitting the target when there's already an enhancement shaman doing it (at least in terms of the debuff).

Icelance also barely does any damage unless the target is frozen. Any benefits the mage/shaman team get from one of them going up close to melee the lock is probably outweighed by how vulnerable this makes them to drain mana from the warlock. They would have probably done better staying at range and using los to try to set up some shatter comboes when the water elemental is up. The problem right now in arena with the 3 cloth classes is that they are basically being trained by melee/physical classes non stop. Want to beat a 2345 or RPM, just ram the mage. Want to beat a 2346 or WLD, ram the lock. Priests get a similar treatment. Thus you won't see those classes sitting out there in the open trying to get a flametongue up on someone because it is just going to get them killed.

Now maybe in some 2s setup with a caster there might be some times where it could give caster/shaman a slight advantage. I don't see how this is a big deal since shamans along with paladins are considered the weakest healers in that bracket. Well both do very well with locks, but that has more to say about locks than anything else. It gives shamans more options in the arena bracket that they are by far the worst in.

Edit: Yeah I was looking at swing resets with instant casts. I know shocks and pally instants didn't. I also knew that NS+healing spell did. What I wasn't sure since I don't have an active caster now is whether caster auto attack plus instant reset it.

It does make enhance+ret actually interesting now.

Ret Paladin on one, Shaman on the other.

Some possible trinkets they could cobble together from that itemization, assuming WoW Wiki is basically right about stat weightings and I didn't mess up my math (more likely than WoW Wiki being wrong, honestly);

30 Rating + 75ap or 44 Spell Damage
20 Rating + 90ap or 52 Spell Damage.

Not best in slot, but I'd say that's much more likely to be useful for the classes they're aimed at.

Yes, ret pallys count as melee, and like I said, any melee stand to get a buff from this. Arguing that casters are going to use the totem without a melee teammate is silly, it won't be worth it.

You would never even have to recast the enhancements on your OH because you want WF on a slow OH and FT on a fast OH. Therefore you would need three weapons total. The enhancements do stay on your weapons while in your inventory, so instead of recasting the spell you would set up a weapon swap macro to switch between the slow/WF weapon and the fast/FT weapon.

I think the Ret paladin would still prefer the WF totem (since the Enh. shaman can provide the debuff and WF totem will improve burst damage), but it does make shaman teams stronger.


The debuff applied is physical? Does FR affect it? Does BoP remove it?

It's the same spell as Mortal Strike.

Thottbot World of Warcraft: Spell Effect: Apply Aura: Mod Healing % (All)

You guys aren't thinking about the FT change in the proper context.

FT totem down = you can reduce every heal being cast by 50%. Don't even think of it in terms of bursting someone down, think of it in terms of "Hey, I'm standing next to this guy, who is about to be healed. Ah I know, I'll hit him once to cut the heal in half, effectively doubling the Healer's mana useage."

Repeat this x5 since everyone can do it, and you no longer are constrained by the MS cooldown, nor wounding poison stacking - you've effectively cut the entire teams healing in half.

Flametongue Totem is a mediocre burst tool, without a full time melee on that target. However it is a powerful mana control tool, effectively cutting off heals by half on any target. If a healer isn't using clickcast by now, they most certainly will need it in order to mask their current heal target.

Not to mention the hilarity of a blink -> flametongue attack for someone who is low and got their current MS removed.