TheCutlery

The Karazhan attunement takes like 2 hours, why the hell is everyone complaining about it?

No one runs instances anymore? What? You don't have 4 people in the guild who are willing to take 2 hours out of their day to 1) Plow SLab, 2) Kill 4 packs in SV, 3) spend 15 minutes in Arcatraz, and then 4) clear Black Morass in 22 minutes?

You can basically 3 man or stealth to the key frag in SV, and Arc might not be stealthable, but it definitely doesn't take any more than 3. You aren't compelled to finish the entire instance once you zone in, you know. You're not even compelled to kill the boss in Arc that's in the way. Just run up the ramp past him.

No one wants to run non heroics and not get badges? What? So do it on heroic AND GET BADGES. It's not like the stupid key containers only spawn on non heroic. Again, zero legitimate complaint there.

No one ever runs black morass? Really? No one wants an Hourglass or a Scarab? Really? Everyone on the server has those? I've never found a problem finding scrubs who are willing to bring their 68 along and pretend to DPS if we're short people online to run it for someone's alt.

I don't feel the Kara attunement was unjustly harsh, like I said, you can finish it in about 2 hours total, you should be running at least a few instances from the time you hit 70 to the time you hop into Karazhan anyway, and if you seriously can't find anyone who will bother to run instances if they're not getting badges, then do it on heroic. It's not like there's a daily quest for each of those instances that you have to get people to do them once in awhile. Oh wait. It's fine that they removed it, I won't complain about that, but it's not like it was this arduous journey from the snowcapped mountain tops to the bottom of the sea in order to get keyed.

 

Duilliath

Minor detail - you can't go Arcatraz on Heroic without doing normals first... There's no way to get enough reputation to hit honoured unless you are doing instances, which apparently people can't PUG anymore.

 

malthrin

I was hoping for a title from the Karazhan quests: Travian, Minimally Competent.

To give this post some value, it seems to be that Blizzard intends attunements to be a road map for progression in the same way that their breadcrumb quests lead you to another zone or quest hub while levelling. The gradual removal of attunements indicates that their purpose isn't to lock players out, but to tell them when they are ready for the next step and point them in that direction. Once the content has been around for a while, players know the accepted road and the map no longer has a purpose.

 

Duilliath

I sure didn't. Especially not on totems. Which irks me a bit, as it still leaves Ferals out, due to not getting any totem procs.

I could see them changing Rake and Tiger's Fury mostly because they're thoroughly underwhelming abilities. They haven't even made my action bar anymore.

A snare on Rake would work well enough for me - would make us match well the Enhancement shamans then too, with increased speed on both, Mortal Flametongue in the team and anti-kiting options.

Tiger's Fury being made an Anti-Fear would suit me fine too. Wishful thinking, I know..

 

tedv

Not true. The scryer and aldor signet turnins give you a little Sha'tar rep as well, up to 5999/6000 friendly. You can do those, then hand in one Sha'tar quest in the bone wastes and be at Honored.

 

Sayessa

Because what the game really needs is a sheep, fear and snare-immune healer, right ?

 

KamPa

Scryer and Aldor rep increases your Sha'tar rep up to 5999/6000, then you just need one more quest. No need to do normal mode instances at all.
Edit: Late, sorry about that.

 

Duilliath

Seeing how the Fear immune bit would require catform, I don't quite see the problem.

As to the Aldor/Scryer Rep hand ins - ye, I forgot about those. Still, I don't expect a fresh 70 that hasn't even set foot into most instances yet to have a healthy dose of those nor the cash to acquire enough of them to get up high enough. Matters naturally are different for alts, but I honestly wouldn't expect those to be the ones needing Instance Drops or having to PUG instances a lot really, if they can just sub in on Karazhan runs.

 

Mode

Would you run a heroic with a critable tank in blues and greens with, say, 10k hps?

 

Benita

Immune doesnt mean the same as breaking on shifting, its slightly less powerful, especially with mana cost attached to the shifting.

Tigers Fury is a catform ability, it costs alot of mana to go in that and then people can just decide not to fear you while you can not heal. It would be a pure feral buff in effect, which is not the worst at this stage of feral arena pvp.

 

Pumbaa

Yeah, it really sucks that fears have such a long cast-times and druid shapeshifting and abilities don't use GCD.

/sarcasm

It wouldn't be something that resto druids would be using. It's just not plausible during the cast time of fear to shift to cat, wait for furor to proc in and then hit tiger's fury.

 

Renzil

For simplicity I would like to see the complete removal of any MS debuff. There would be no problems with ferals, fury warriors or any aritificial improvements to hunters or shamans, which are in the end only psychological buffs. "You, hunter, don't complain about arena. You got a ms-shot."

 

TheCutlery

Yeah, and then matches never end because you can't actually kill anyone.

 

TheCutlery

Because tanks have problems getting groups when? If you're a tank and need a Kara key and your guild won't help you do it, I'd say you've got bigger issues, but I digress.

If you're a tank, you can run any instance you want on most servers, normal or heroic. If you're not a tank, there's a good chance there's a t5 tank looking for a few extra badges anyway, or the daily and will tank it for you. If you are a tank, then just form a group. And all of this is solely dependant upon the other 9 people that you're running Karazhan with being unable to take quite literally 2 hours out of their day to get you keyed. It's perposterous. It's not like this is some long involved chain requiring drops off 25 man bosses or anything, it's 2 dungeons and literally no more than a half an hour into the other 2 if you're stupidly slow.

When I got my shadow priest keyed, I found a group for Arc that consisted of people getting their alts keyed. It was a holy pally, a holy pally and a druid or some nonsense, and then me. We couldn't find a fifth. One pally logged on his s2 warrior and tanked it, the druid logged on his rogue and DPS'd it, and then when we got to the fragment, they switched, I logged on my wife's hunter on the other comp, summoned everyone up and looted the frag. These are people with complete garbage gear who needed their alts keyed and didn't even have to play them to do it. The only instance you actually have to do on the toon you need keyed is Morass, and like I said, everyone wants an hourglass or a scarab.

 

Rounced

Why they didn't choose to stick the MS effects on Stormstrike and also on Mangle is beyond me. By the same token adding an MS effect to ignite would also make a lot of sense and would seem to accomplish the goal of spreading MS around without making shaman the focus target of the pain train in every Arena.

 

• Daboran

Very true. Outside of this curveball, I was always previously leaning towards the likeihood of something Arena-oriented for Ferals coming in WotLK in the expanded talent trees.

 

Sando

Outside of warriors, they seem to be giving MS effects to classes by forcing them to either sacrafice something (rogues using another poison) or using an ability that sees little use in arena (hunters aim shot). It seems they've gone for the second option for shamans. Adding it to stormstrike would be a straight addition of MS ability to the shaman, they obviously want classes to actually think about applying it rather than just having it there all the time.

I'm also less convinced about the requirement that mages and other DPS have for MS. There are other ways to get kills on targets than just applying MS and DPSing through the heals. Warriors and rogues have few ways to stop a healer healing the target they are on, and hunters got MS in what seemed to be a fairly desperate attempt to make them Arena viable. However, mages and locks have the ability to stop incoming heals on their target with interupts and sheep/fear on the healer to a much greater extent.

Also, wouldn't putting MS on ignite and mangle basically ensure that it is up 100% on a boss fight. I don't know if that would be an issue now, but it surely would be an issue on any future healing fight that blizz designs.

 

TheCutlery

Didn't people always bring a MS warrior for one fight in BWL? (sorry, been awhile since I was there, one of the drakes) I'd say if you need MS up 100% of the time you can already do that if you're so inclined.

 

Krag

With MS, Wound Poison and Flametongue debuff already in I'm pretty sure Blizzard already would design such a fight with 100% uptime on the debuff in mind.

 

flyingtoastr

To be fair almost every high end guild raids with an MS warrior right now for Blood Frenzy.

I'm just waiting for the MS debuff to proc off a Warlock's Firestone. Blizzard's policy for making things go from crap to useful seems to just slap MS on it, so the Firestone is a perfect candidate.

 

Pyros

Yeah Ebonroc. We still bring a MS war, or when he's not here, we ask a rogue to use wound poison, for stuff ilke najentus, or illidan(not sure it works on illidan but well we still do it). So yea wouldn't be an issue in pve really, MS warriors are already part of your basic raid group setup anyway(a MS/slam war with the bleed debuff thingie). If you need it, having a rogue apply wound poison with his offhand is such a minor dps loss for the raid, that it shouldn't be considered an issue to have other classes applying MS all the time.

I however agree that mages don't really need a MS for pvp, since they have much better tools than any other class to deal with casters, minus maybe warlocks. Sheeps and CS.

 

Mano

Don't forget that putting it on FT is actually also a buff for shamans other than enhancers - there isn't actually one single weapon buff around which we would have liked to use in Arena. Until now we just put WF on it because it was the best and proccing could further delay the cast of an enemy. Now we have something useful to put on it, even if we can't use it often.

Well, Blizzard can always make the bosses immune to the effect if they don't want it to affect the fight. I don't think a Ret Paladin's Vindication for example is affecting bosses and most can't be stunned/sheeped/feared/cc'ed/etc.

It might also be a hidden buff to PVE for shamans actually. The until now non-used fire totem slot can now be used in a tank group - FT + AGI + SOE might well be greater than WF + SOE if FT totem procs had any other implications. Or maybe it's more for 5man content as there you might have healing mobs in a group.

 

Rounced

Another way would be to place it on Elemental Weapons.

Change it to:

Elemental Weapons
Instant
Increases the damage caused by your Rockbiter Weapon by 7/14/20%, your Windfury Weapon effect by 13/27/40%, your Frostbrand Weapon by 5/10/15% and causes your Flametongue Weapon to wound the target reducing the effectiveness of any healing by 17/33/50% for 5 seconds.

That way they get their sacrifice since the Enh shaman would be losing even more dps since the talent would no longer boost flametongue weapon by 15% and at the same time would limit the effect to someone specced relatively deeply into the enhancement tree.

 

◊ Penguin

It definitely works on Illidan. Draw Soul on just the tank heals him for 100k undebuffed, and 50k with an MS-type buff up. It's a noticable difference on how long the fight goes.

There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake

I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai