Bogeywoman

Although it's fun to theorize about everyone getting MS via a totem, any team with an instant cast or a pet is going to spend a global cooldown on totem stomping, just as they do now with windfury totem vs. 234N. The totem is still immobile with 5 hp, subject to cooldown, and rangeable.

 

• sordee

I think it is disingenuous to say just because they are the lowest represented healers in 5s they have problems.
The significant issue is that of all healers, Shaman are the only class with a more desirable spec then healer at the moment. I.e. Elemental.

 

◊ Cathela

Right. I'm thinking the totem is going to be useful tactically to apply the debuff while you're bursting someone down, but it's not going to have the permanent-debuff kind of utility that, say, MS does.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

mek

Well, the actual functionality of a weapon totem is, it applies a 10 second enchant, which in this case applies a 5 second debuff. So the shaman spends 1 second of gcd to give their team MS for 15 seconds, IF you stomp the totem instantly.

 

• sordee

Funny thing,
I just had this happen last night. (I.e. I joined up via LFG channel).
And it was for Heroic Slave Pens.
Tank was wearing "of the Monkey" green chestpiece and using DM book trinket in one slot. (11K HP with Mark)

I politely waited one pull or two, and after said tank dieing twice, (with Kara Pally, and me enhance shaman effectively tanking mobs), and then excused myself.

Just because you are a tank, doesn't mean you can run a heroic.

 

Belteshazzar

Has anyone verified that this isn't dispellable? Because I'm assuming it is, and that doesn't put it anywhere near the level of MS. Yes, dispelling eats a gcd, and it'll probably get reapplied, but it's still an important detail that it can be dispelled.

 

mek

It's not dispellable, the debuff is a physical effect. If it was dispellable it'd be pretty amazing though, as it'd cover valuable debuffs with a constantly-reapplied junk effect.

 

Sillia

Assuming you mean the new Mortal Flametongue, it is a physical debuff (currently).

 

• Disquette

If it acts like WF totem, the effect recharges every 5 seconds. So the recipient will have only 10 seconds of the MS affect if the totem is killed within 5 seconds of the totem being dropped.

 

Grahamiam

He meant that at 10 seconds, your last swing will reset their debuff timer to 5 more seconds, making it 15 seconds total.

Or so I think.

 

TheCutlery

Well, that wasn't really the point I was getting at. The point is that if you're a tank, you CAN put together a normal instance run. Hell, you can put together a run for anything you want. Tanks have that ability. The problem presented was "No one wants to run normals anymore" Okay, then run it heroic. "Green geared tanks can't tank heroics" Right, but if you're a felsteel/champion green tank, you CAN tank a normal and I promise you won't have problems finding DPS to fill out that group.

The whole "No one ever groups for the Kara key" anymore is just nonsense. There's a way to get around it, no matter what role you're supposed to be filling.

 

• Chicken

Depending on the server, the time, and the random people's attitude towards whatever class of tank you are it can actually be more problematic than you'd guess.

While it doesn't happen as often as having to cancel a run because you can't get a tank or healer, I've certainly had to cancel runs when I had a tank and healer because I couldn't find enough DPS. This specifically made getting Revered with Thrallmar very painful; a lot of DPS were reluctant to do Shattered Halls simply because with the large pulls there they had bad experiences with random people tanking it... And Paladins were still new for the Horde at the time, so few people knew that large pulls are practically easier than single pulls for a Paladin tank.

Probably the fact that Paladins were new didn't help much either; a lot of PUGing messages I see tend to ask for Warriors for tanking, despite the fact that for 5-mans all three tanking classes are good.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Bendelat

I never have issues getting normal instances on Thrall for the Kara key, BUT my guild does help out. The dangerous part is a ZA geared rogue mind controlled in Slabs killing clothies.

I suppose for those with pug like guilds or trying to get the key for pugging kara it could be difficult. But in my experience we often pick up filler members for their kara key frags. Kara is still the most popular instance of BC. Getting the key for it is common.

 

Chirality

EDIT: I guess I've read all but one page of this thread so far and missed this already. Apologies.

 

TheCutlery

Welcome to 3 pages ago, sir.

 

• sordee

Oh I agree, (just pointing how close to home it hit when talking about thethe blue/green tank in heroics)

Specifically back on topic, I will say this: within one weeks time, >90% chance all 4 dungeons will be on the Daily Dungeon quest. I can't believe there isn't a server you will have trouble finding a group during prime time hours to complete the Daily Dungeon (within one hour on the LFG channel) And this is exactly what I did when I rolled an a guildless Alliance Enhancement Shaman (ooh, high demand there!!!!) on a completely different server than my mains.

Yes it may take a few days, but this is nothing in comparison to trying to get a full run LBRS group back in the days (even with guilds)

 

Dalthium

People always needed to do LBRS for the quest many people would do it every day. The only problem was that getting groups together then was just so much more difficult due to not having any of the tools available to you that are now avaiable.

 

Galred

I've seen a bunch of posts about how 'easy' it is to get Karazhan keyed, but I have yet to see a compelling reason to keep the attunement. It no longer serves a purpose, and it's annoying to jump through the necessary hoops just to get in the door.

If a player can't handle Karazhan, I'm totally fine with them zoning in to find this out. Currently the only skill involved in getting attuned is skill at pulling groups together.

 

Bendelat

I would prefer the attunement be removed entirely rather than the current method in patch 2.4 of requiring a key to open the door but not log in. Having to open the door for people slows the raid down. I will probably have to start telling guildies they get one free raid when gearing up without a key. After that, have a key or go home.

 

Fiver

They're looking beyond just Enhancement viability, though. They've recognised the weakness of all specs in the lower brackets and while it shouldn't be overanalysed Kalgan did write that 'We're hoping to get at least 1 spec viable in 2v2 for this patch (we're thinking Enhance), but hopefully all three specs will be viable for 3v3.'

Intentionally including the MS proc on the Totem's imbue (versus, say Rockbiter) also suggests they're deliberately extending the MS buff to Resto and Elemental, even if it's only by proxy via other melee dps.

Anyway, enough speculation. While the MS effect isn't imaginative, its implementation at least is more interesting, and certainly has the potential to upset more traditional arena team make-ups.

 

Dalthium

Resto was already viable in 2v2.

 

Denogran

How does it significantly slow the raid down? I rarely see people complaining that SH or SL require keys, how is this any different? I mean Arcatraz is annoying, but that's because when you die, you auto-rez and can't spirit run through the locked doors. Really, all the additional time we're talking about here is letting people in at the very beginning, and maybe running out to summon someone. That doesn't seem bad at all to me.

I do like the system they're implementing for Hyjal though, where you can't get your ring unless you complete the attunement quests. I think they should do something like this for Kara as well.

 

Kasi

Resto was viable in 2s yes, but certainly not the strongest healer in that bracket. Good thing is this change does very little for the current strongest resto shaman 2s setup (war/shaman) while helping the others that definitely needed some help.

 

Fiola

Doesn't the Kara ring require that you finish the keying quest?


If so, there it is.

 

Dalthium

Maybe it will work the same way. I think you have to complete the quest for the questline to open up to get the ring for karazhan anyway.