I apologize if this is against the sticky, but can someone detail what part of the Twin Eredar trash is bugged and what part isn't?
When we pull the initial pack, it seems all 4 summoners up the ramp are activating and sending down waves of demons. I am not sure if this is intended behavior or not.
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What we could see in those 30 minutes, we messed around with that trash:
The summoner summons the demon adds until he gets engaged and then the next one starts summoning, tho sometimes the small imps started to pull patrols and then another summoner went mental and started summoning too.
I'm not sure, if there were more bugs involving them or if it even was a bug, as we just decided to run past the trash and recover in the twins room since PTR with 600ms+ just wasnt worth wasting time for us.
Which also brings me to the point to ask, if someone thinks that the Twin trash is actually a step back in design compared to trash in other instances. I totally disliked all forms of gauntlets in instances so far (Suppresion room/Heigan trash).
This trash tho doesn't seem to actually serve alot of purpose, as you can just recover from wipes in the Twinroom without problems as long as you got Divine Intervention, Soulstone or Reincarnation up.
Which also brings me to the point to ask, if someone thinks that the Twin trash is actually a step back in design compared to trash in other instances. I totally disliked all forms of gauntlets in instances so far (Suppresion room/Heigan trash).
This trash tho doesn't seem to actually serve alot of purpose, as you can just recover from wipes in the Twinroom without problems as long as you got Divine Intervention, Soulstone or Reincarnation up.
I enjoyed the AQ40 bug tunnel, and the Heigan trash.
The AQ40 tunnel was basically a bit of fun between two bosses. Once you got to the end, you just kept killing one little wave or just stood up the side and not aggro anything.
The Heigan trash was more of a challenge. It was fun to learn (we used the 'keep this one alive' from each pack method, till we got around the corner). It also was not too painfull to repeat, even when learning the boss.
However the Broodlord trash was a bit boring and tedious. I'm not sure why I like some but not the other.. something about being slowed just pisses people off I think. In addition to relying on rogues to stop you from being slowed. The FPS hit in that place was also terrible for my PC at the time of learning it.
I havent tried the Sisters trash, so I cant comment on that.
They could easily make trash more time sensitive with little mini timed events for chest filled with stuff at the end or something, or short cuts that reduce trash load if you go fast enough. AKA walls falling down in 20 mins or chests that are destroyed in XX mins. Chests could have random pattern x and 5 epic gems with 10g/ per or something nice like that which guarantees you don't farm an instance forever and never get a pattern or a drop.
I'm willing to bet that deathfrost wont work for ferals, based on the wording. Deathfrost text:
Permanently enchant a weapon so your damaging spells and melee weapon hits occasionally inflict an additional 150 Frost damage and reduce the target's melee, ranged, and casting speed by 15% for 8 sec. Requires a level 60 or higher item.
Even so, in raiding situations you could always have a melee DPS switch to a Deathfrost-ed weapon and keep the debuff up. But that only works if Deathfrost works on bosses. Do we have any confirmation on this? Did Icy Enchant work on bosses?
Originally Posted by Tyrian
Does Blizzard have a conscious "lets try and avoid using the word trash" policy, or does it genuinely appear they believe they deserve titles like this - to imply its something other or more than t-r-a-s-h.
Trash seems to be a 4 letter word at Blizz HQ, considering how much trash they give us in instances. Even the famous quotation of "equally interesting yet non-epic-dropping non-bosses" is wrong; in every raid instance "trash" mobs drop epics, except for perhaps ZG/AQ20.
Originally Posted by Intermission
I enjoyed the AQ40 bug tunnel, and the Heigan trash.
The AQ40 tunnel was basically a bit of fun between two bosses. Once you got to the end, you just kept killing one little wave or just stood up the side and not aggro anything.
The Heigan trash was more of a challenge. It was fun to learn (we used the 'keep this one alive' from each pack method, till we got around the corner). It also was not too painfull to repeat, even when learning the boss.
However the Broodlord trash was a bit boring and tedious. I'm not sure why I like some but not the other.. something about being slowed just pisses people off I think. In addition to relying on rogues to stop you from being slowed. The FPS hit in that place was also terrible for my PC at the time of learning it.
I havent tried the Sisters trash, so I cant comment on that.
QFT. You summed up my feelings exactly.
I never felt that the aq40 bug tunnel was very difficult, IMO at least, it was easier than clearing the trash to Skeram, or the trash between Skeram and Sartura (those 'charging' bugs can diaf). AQ40 bug tunnel was, run as fast as you can, stop periodically, and have an aoe fest.
But BWL suppression room was miserable. Getting slowed, having attack and casting speeds decreased, that made me mad. Plus I would get the occasional lag spike in that room, get behind the rest of the raid, get slowed by repopping suppression devices, then get killed by the orc patrols.
Which also brings me to the point to ask, if someone thinks that the Twin trash is actually a step back in design compared to trash in other instances. I totally disliked all forms of gauntlets in instances so far (Suppresion room/Heigan trash).
This trash tho doesn't seem to actually serve alot of purpose, as you can just recover from wipes in the Twinroom without problems as long as you got Divine Intervention, Soulstone or Reincarnation up.
The whole guantlet is basically 1 pack, once you kill the head guy that is at the end it doesn't respawn at all. It is supposed to be fun I suspect, kind of like a mini boss. It would be nice if it was exactly like BWL trash that stayed down once you killed it and the commander rewarded an automatic trash epic. That could make people more excited to do interesting non-boss mobs with small events that reward the trash drops.
Trash seems to be a 4 letter word at Blizz HQ, considering how much trash they give us in instances. Even the famous quotation of "equally interesting yet non-epic-dropping non-bosses" is wrong; in every raid instance "trash" mobs drop epics, except for perhaps ZG/AQ20.
If it helps any, the only other enchantment that requires a level 60 or higher item drops in Z'A. But looking at the materials cost for Deathfrost, I don't see how it can be in the game. Two Primal Shadow and two Primal Mana is way too cheap for a weapon enchantment - every TBC weapon enchant requires multiple large prismatics and every weapon enchantment in the game requires shards (past Enchanting 120).
They do seem to want to lower the costs of shards though. Making a decent enchant not need any could be part of that.
Even so, in raiding situations you could always have a melee DPS switch to a Deathfrost-ed weapon and keep the debuff up. But that only works if Deathfrost works on bosses. Do we have any confirmation on this? Did Icy Enchant work on bosses?
Pre-TBC Icy Chill worked on some bosses at least. I haven't tried it post-TBC because data from this thread (Link) indicates that at level 70 due to low level enchants scaling down it actually ends up increasing your opponents attack speed. Though that was supposedly fixed in a later patch, I've been reluctant to try it out regardless.
Originally Posted by Darkrenown
They do seem to want to lower the costs of shards though. Making a decent enchant not need any could be part of that.
There's a difference between making a decent enchant not need shards and making it dirt cheap however. If that was the plan you'd expect it to require a larger amount of primals.
buff /bÊŒf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
Blue post:
We discovered a pretty obnoxious bug with the Lady Sacrolash and Grand Warlock Alythess encounter that is making the encounter much more difficult than intended. Until we get that bug resolved, we're going to bring down the Sunwell Raid instance on the PTR. I have no ETA on the fix at this time.
We managed a few hours on Eredar Twins last Wednesday and Thursday, and we didn't notice anything that made it insanely hard. Makes me wonder what they screwed up. Maybe it's the obnoxious trash he's taking about?
Blue post:
We discovered a pretty obnoxious bug with the Lady Sacrolash and Grand Warlock Alythess encounter that is making the encounter much more difficult than intended. Until we get that bug resolved, we're going to bring down the Sunwell Raid instance on the PTR. I have no ETA on the fix at this time.
We managed a few hours on Eredar Twins last Wednesday and Thursday, and we didn't notice anything that made it insanely hard. Makes me wonder what they screwed up. Maybe it's the obnoxious trash he's taking about?
One of their debuffs is supposed to be removed by doing something else in the encounter. This debuff was *not* being removed correctly...which means when they use one of their other abilities, you gib. Pretty much 100% certain death.
This made the encounter quite difficult, and was obviously not intended.
Sorry for the cloak and dagger response, but I'm trying not to give away "spoilers"
We figured out a way to get all the debuffs removed (or switched). It was kind of hard, but repeatable. So I don't think that's it. (Or it might be that, and Blizzard just want it to be easier.)
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There was a problem with the fire debuff stacking very fast though sometimes, without any apparent reason. And no, you shouldn't stand on the railings.
There was a brief time when it worked during pre-expansion closed alpha/beta. I remember playing around with it.
As I recall, the truly brutal problem was on abilities that could proc, when used with Swipe. The proc rate was based on the bear's swing speed, and when you combined that with a spammable ability that landed three hits at a time... I think effects would proc at roughly six times the rate they were tuned to.
(I don't know how simple the solution of "...but Swipe can't proc" would have been. I suppose they probably would have implemented it as "only autoattack and on-next-swing abilities can generate procs" rather than making a one-ability special case, and then we'd have gotten howling from the rogue/warrior community.)
True, having a multi target spammable attack in conjunction with a 2.5 normal weapon speed can lead to some interesting situations. But if you look at it, it really isn't that overpowered. The best proc for a druid would be mongoose, since as far as I know, battlemaster has a internal cooldown. If that triple proc'd on a swipe, we would get +360 agility and +6% IAS. The agility would turn into a decent bit of crit, which would in turn help aggro generation and rage, and ~25% dodge. Interestingly enough, in a situation where you can actually tank three targets often, a 5 man, having that extra 25% dodge would actually hurt you because of reduced rage via incoming damage.
When it comes down to it, having proc'able enchants on feral weapons wouldn't change much regarding raid tanking, and in 5 mans, pally tanks are still the aoe gods. It would just give feral tanks a bit more flavor and choice regarding what enchant to put on their weapon.
And as far as the technical side of it, there is clearly some amount of mechanism in place, as non-weapon slots can proc "On hit" effects, and apparently the righteous weapon coating can as well. In addition, currently the adamantite weapon stones give the +crit bonus to a druid, but not the +weapon damage.
My point is that where it counts, in a raid tanking a raid boss, you don't have the benefit of multiple targets to swipe at to get 3x the chance to proc on each hit. And honestly, I don't think I would want to be unhittable in a 5 man. Using my normal tanking gear is bad enough. I have to take off tank gear and swap on dps gear to be able to hold aggro.
Edit: And since you are right about the proc not stacking three times, we would only get +120 agi, which works out to about 8.5% dodge.
True, having a multi target spammable attack in conjunction with a 2.5 normal weapon speed can lead to some interesting situations. But if you look at it, it really isn't that overpowered. The best proc for a druid would be mongoose, since as far as I know, battlemaster has a internal cooldown. If that triple proc'd on a swipe, we would get +360 agility and +6% IAS. The agility would turn into a decent bit of crit, which would in turn help aggro generation and rage, and ~25% dodge. Interestingly enough, in a situation where you can actually tank three targets often, a 5 man, having that extra 25% dodge would actually hurt you because of reduced rage via incoming damage.
When it comes down to it, having proc'able enchants on feral weapons wouldn't change much regarding raid tanking, and in 5 mans, pally tanks are still the aoe gods. It would just give feral tanks a bit more flavor and choice regarding what enchant to put on their weapon.
And as far as the technical side of it, there is clearly some amount of mechanism in place, as non-weapon slots can proc "On hit" effects, and apparently the righteous weapon coating can as well. In addition, currently the adamantite weapon stones give the +crit bonus to a druid, but not the +weapon damage.
I think the original calculations were with an enchant that healed you and (non-scaled) lifestealing + (old) improved Leader of the Pack would heal about as much as a priest in an average 5man... Doesn't matter all that much in the end though, as it'd be easy enough to give bears a cooldown on procs (similar to Windfury's internal cooldown) or just make it proc on one of three swipe hits - ie. make it count as one 'attack', rather than three 'hits'.
Beaten =].
I think the gems added were very much needed. The pricing is a good price for such high quality that people have to choose do they want 4 epic gems or these new awesome boots. For the most part clearing any 25 man raid instance will net you close to 15 badges. I think you will start to see a more constant price on epic gems compared to a insane jump in prices, 1.5k for a spinel compared to 300 for a lionseye.
Seriously... Whats up with loads of +hit on S4? It is better be unfinished because it is just plain stupid. S4 in current "leak" form give 75 hit, now we have additional 16 from head and 10 from boots so warrior in S4 would end up with 101 hit rating when he needs only 79.
Or maybe they noticed that PvP gear is quite good for arms raiding?
P.S. Is it me or 1h S4 will probably have more DPS than warglavies? Excellent leveling gear!
Drop your surefooted, put a speed enchant on your boots and use RED.
03/04/08, 1:30 AM
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