Atemporal

As per the sticky I'll avoid specifics, but Kalecgos is definitely a combination of gear check + coordination.


Edit- I don't like being intentionally vague, so I'm going to drop this line of conversation for the moment.

 

Kirion

Will this change significatly if they buff his hp pool?

42.

 

Ellere

While execution might not be that hard I do look forward to farming him. If he stays anything like his current state he will be the best dps benchmark fight in TBC so far, better than teron based on him not having a raid targetted insta-gib, just pure tank and spank from a dps point of view, also not forgetting hes a demon it's a nice fight for anyone with warglaives and elixir of demon slaying trying to push the limits before lvl 80 hits.

 

• Karakas

It's still a bit disappointing that the gear check in Sunwell is little more (or even less?) than "Patchwerk 2.0". There are a lot of interesting, non-random ways to enforce a gear requirement, even in a generally tank-and-spank fight. Then again, I suppose a fight like Brutallus can pretty much be a fight that says {win if your raid's gear is >= level, lose otherwise}.

 

Aerevyn

--Remove please--

"There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who know Binary and those who don't."

 

Prinsesa

@Kruthal: The current High Warlord gear (which isn't buyable anymore) is not backwards-compatible with Gladiator gear. Wearing 2 pieces of Gladiator's Dragonhide and 2 pieces of High Warlord's Dragonhide will get you the 35 resilience 2-set bonus twice.

That being said, its possible that the "Battlegear" (as its named different from High Warlord's) will not follow these rules, even if they're practically the same set in all but explicit naming.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Seneku

Perhaps it's time to revive the old RNG thread because one of the biggest issues for me atm is the current changes we're seeing with regards to the loot system and the implications this has moving forward.

They've added 1 extra token per 25man boss meaning they drop 3 tokens, instead of taking the time to eliminate a large part of the luck needed and making it 1 of each drop they're still random.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...y/brutloot.jpg

This is eactly what most guilds dread to see, our guild is seeing the Vanquisher glove tokens going for 20-30 DKP atm, Conqueror goes for 2-300, Protectors slightly skewed as we have MT priority but we still get nowhere near as many of those as Vanq atm. With 3 tokens dropping it really should be 1 of each kind, it's perfect, eliminates a lot of the luck factor and I cant see anyone being unhappy with that change (except maybe the Rogues, Druids and Mages for some unknown reason), it was one of the best things in AQ and anything since that has been a step backwards because of the luck factor.

However thats just the tokens, what's worse is the reduction in usage of a token based system full stop and returning it to a random drop system. The transmute system is a broken solution to a broken system, the problem is the unwanted items shouldn't have been unwanted in the first place. Tokens not only reduce the chances of items going unwanted by a large margin but they also spread the competition for said items among a generally fairer cross section. By making it so that random items drop on a class/role basis it unfairly discriminates drastically against some moreso than others where as the tokens generally minimise this. DPS Cloth users and Healers are all competing against each other now and they by far make up the single largest group within a raid, compare that to 2 groups for Plate users or indeed 2 groups for Mail users which make up the smallest section of most raids.

Then we have the BoJ system which will apparently be giving out T6 level items which I really don't get at all, it's not a question of anything at all to do with the Casual Vs Hardcore crap, it's about the risk vs reward. Why does someone farming Heroic Mech for a few days deserve to get something the equivalent of what took an average raider months to get? I can see the point maybe of implementing a new higher level badge and having it drop in maybe ZA and T5 level instances for this but honestly the generic heroics do not need their loot to scale, all it's doing is completely devaluing any of the old T5 and indeed T4 instances completely. Even in the old days we farmed Naxx to get Naxx level drops, we didn't go back to UBRS for them and we didn't expect Scholo to suddenly start rewarding us with them. The epic/gear inflation is way out of hand, we see it in PvP with the fresh 70's getting thrashed for weeks till they can farm the S1 stuff and now it's being carried over into the PvE side of things with new 70's suddenly forced to grind badges for T5/6 level gear instead of actually going out and doing the T5/6 level instances.

Is this really where WotLK is headed?

 

• Chicken

Since I know a couple of people were curious, it seems the change to Magtheridon was to make the Mind Exhaustion caused by clicking the cubes last 30 seconds, down from the previous 85 seconds. In other words, you can just have five people handle every needed blast wave interruption.

It also opens up the interesting option of figuring out a rotation where you keep Magtheridon banished constantly. That'd be worth seeing.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Nezralix

That's interesting, how you said you weren't complaining about casual vs. hardcore and then proceeded to launch into a very "casual vs. hardcore" mode of complaining. TBC has been out for over a year, and PvP gear improves with each season, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that some adjustment needed to be made to PvE gear to make it not seem like a completely losing proposition to players who weren't in the cutting edge. Never mind that this "T6 badge loot" is extremely limited in scope (even moreso than the "T5 badge loot"), and the raiders you fondly refer to get an entire character's worth of it for their efforts.

 

Primal

Kalecgos is really quite the cool encounter. Trash leading up to him is a bit much, but it's not intolerable by any means and two pulls later you're at Brutalis. So far, it's well done from what I've seen.

The only downside so far is the annoying food/water problem. That's to be expected on a test realm, though, especially this early still.

 

bellator

I don't think it's been said, but does anyone think that the "tier 7" token drop seems a little odd.

In 2.4 killing each tier 6 boss will result in 3 tier 6 tokens. However looking at the loots from the current bosses in SP it seems that aside from the tier 6 drops you get 1 other loot which has a chance of being a tier 7 leg token. This leaves them with 4 tier 7 slots to be distributed over 3 bosses. Unless the later bosses are going to drop a crazy number of loots per kill i dont see how they can itemise without having either the majority of loot drops being tier slot loot and thus vastly reducing the number of non-tier slot loots, which are the hardest to complete, or have more non-tier loots and let the number of tier loots that drop on average for each slot per clear be far less than the 3 it will be for tier 6/5 etc.

 

Moogul

Thanks for the info.

So, 10-man Magtheridon incoming? Seems like it could be possible, depending on how quickly a well-geared group of 10 could down the channelers.

 

Pyros

I'll agree with the token part, and the transmute part. Tokens need to be 1 for each class, so unless you bring somewhat unbalanced raids, you'll always use all of the tokens all the time until everyone has one piece of the set(might depend on the guild, but probably better than relying on luck anyway). Transmutes are broken because as you said, there's more cloth users than any other type.

However I don't agree with the BoJ stuff being bad.

Edit: removed the 5paragraphs about why BoJs are good, derail, not important, I guess everyone knows or should know by now.

 

dakalro

In response to Seneku, dps cloth isn't competing with anyone. I thought the dps caster leggings dropping from some boss was clear evidence of that. Bosses drop dps cloth and healing, healing items can be changed to spirit based dps cloth.
I agree on the token part (we have a druid with 18 t6 pieces and t6 head is still wanted for mainspec - only set item though). Vanq and Prot have long since been going for offspec, everyone in those 2 groups has pretty much all offspec they could get.
What I would like to see taken out of RNG is random items, especially those on end bosses. Make 1 token for each loot slot and let guilds decide how they share it around. It means that at least after 30-40 kills everyone has the 1-3 items they want. I mean blizzard is going this way with everything starting from badges to pvp, why let PvE continue on the same tiresome path with raid after raid of sigh, another shard from boss X instead of uber item Y.

 

Anedielyon

I'm also hearing from a friend that there will not be any infernals in Phase One of the Magtheridon encounter.

I feel sorry for Mag, being beaten so hard with the nerf stick.

 

Wintern

I hope they fix that, there shouldn't be reward fights in this zone, especially with only six bosses.

 

dakalro

Think gloves are a trash drop and they don't have to make a full 5/5 8/8 tier 7 non-set.

 

Seneku

Meh, sorry but dont mistake what I'm saying for a CvH debate, it's not as my main concern is the undermining of old content for what reason exactly? Progression ladders are named as such for a reason, you work your way up each step, get geared up accordingly and you start out at the bottom working your way up. Yep it does mean some will be at the bottom and some will be way up at the top, thats the very nature of these things. What they're currently doing is slapping a "Best before" date on instances and saying if you're not good enough to have done them then don't worry, we've just built a new progression escalator for you to ride on. New players will skip content that they should be doing, you learn tactics etc in Kara which are then applied in Gruul's Lair which are then used elsewhere etc and it's a major part of the learning process working your way up the ladder.

The problem is people tend to look at one thing, gear and thats exactly what you've said, it's all about the gear. Raiders need better gear to take on harder bosses and as such their gear gets better the further they get. PvP has caused Higher quality gear than is available via T4/5 to be more widely available undermining many of the items you get from those (weapons moreso than anything else) and now they're doing the same with the badges loot which is a worrying trend. There's already little to no incentive for the Karazhan guild to progress and now they're undermining the achievements of the current crop of T5 guilds by basically turning to them and saying sorry but you're behind the curve, doesn't matter if they're personally happy with their current progress. Off you go back to Karazhan and Heroics and get farming some BoJ's so you can get better gear than what you were doing, that gear may be helping them long term but the method for getting it seems way out of whack.

This is probably at risk of straying widely offtopic to another of the CvH debates and I apologise for that.

 

Duskmourn

Its the combination of all of these things for casuals at once. PvP gear has been a progressive gradual increase from three season changes. PvE gear was regulated by attunements, guild success, attendance, and dedication. I agree with the guy you were responding to. If anything the new badge loot that's yet to be provided on the PTR should fill in the gaps in the tier 5 level so the more casual guilds that have a free ticket to Hyjal and BT have fairly complete easy badge loot when they go there.

It shouldn't be a few random peices that were at tier 6 level quality. Raiders who have been in tier 6 for months shouldn't have to hope for loot that fills a slot blizzard didn't fill in tier 6 well, like rogue boots/belt, and rouge ranged. The badge loot should be basically something to help more casual guilds build upto tier 6 level instead of giving them a free ticket past some items they might need IN tier 6.

I certainly hope blizzard isn't making these badge items in hopes of satisfying the raiders together with the more casual. It should all be about helping those guilds that were stuck at vashj and kael.


As far as other things were concerned Kalecgos seemed fairly balanced. The trash is about the length of Illidari Council trash.

 

Gothik

Sorry if this has been posted before. I would like to know if the new repeatable pvp quest gives any reputation with the factions associated with each battleground.

 

Nakilos

Its amazing to me they haven't improved on the token system implemented in EQ back in PoP. I mean, if anything it used to be better getting <armor type> bracer mold than ones with arbitrary class selections. Personally, give me tokens ANYONE can use for ANY piece of gear for that slot. Last night as finished Hyjal and along the way it was like wow, 2 more Vanquisher gloves, that never happens. This isn't an RNG rant, but a rant about if that token was just Mystical Hands Pattern and EVERYONE could use it, they wouldn't be rotting. It makes no sense why the system needs to be overcomplicated pointlessly, and now this transmute system is quite frankly just a stupid idea, and completely subject to the same downfalls of random loot.

Even mentioned earlier in this thread, 3 tokens dropping now, why not just have 1 of each. At least you'd kill a boss and know at least 1 thing wouldn't be rotting.

 

dakalro

This is imo caused by the fact that while Blizzard tried to cater to the casuals it accomplished nothing because casuals won't be getting full s3 gear or full t6/7. Only thing they might get is 1-2 T5 items and a few s1-s3 items.
It's still the hardcore players, raiders or not that will profit from this and we'll see even more people in good geared with crappy enchants going LFG ZA and going crazy on how well geared they are when they fail the most basic tasks in a raid which is pretty much the norm in most raid PUGs at this point.

If they want to do it right they need to give raiders an official means of ranking other than good PvE gear which is one of the few perks they had (mind you this gear does nothing anymore in PvP, it's so totally worthless that getting in a fight with the wrong spec will get you killed by even blue geared players - that can play though) and that now everyone but the casuals can fully enjoy (my alt has pretty much everything that I can get given the raids my server organizes for his main role - feral tank and > t4 gear for both dps and healing with still plenty of drops incoming and badges to spend - and this is the case with a lot more hardcore players that simply can't play well or for some unknown reason don't raid, but they're still hardcore). To help casuals you don't make them spend hundreds of badges or arena point equiv. on gear, you give them content that's reasonably fast and doesn't take 3-4 weeks to get an item.

As for catching up, how many guilds would actually even consider recruiting a player without experience, no matter what his gear is. If you know someone's good you're gonna gear him up in at most 1 month as long as he won't wipe your raids (reroll, person coming back from retirement, w/e). If he's geared and stupid all that catching up in gearing won't help much, if he's not geared and good for the guild, the guild will gear him up fast.

 

Sokia

The blue pvp sets are a completely different set and do not stack with the gladiator gear. Wearing 2 pieces of gladiator and 2 pieces of the blue set gives 2- 35 resiliance set bonuses.

 

Pyros

You're only going to gear him fast if all your raid is already pretty much geared, or he's playing an underrepresented class. If you're progressing thru T6 when sunwell goes live, it'd be better if you can recruit someone that has the same gear level as your other members instead of someone that has lower level of gear. I think that's the main point, that and the feeling more "casual" raiders might get if they down a few T6 bosses instead of being stuck on kael/vashj for 6more months until wotlk releases.

But overall my main point is, how is it an issue that random people you don't know are getting free loot that's worse than what you get. How does that concern you that another guild might walk into black temple when you're progressing in sunwell. It's not a competition, at least not against those people. You're competing against other full T6 guild for servers first, or maybe world firsts, but not against Joe the shmuck's guild that's still wiping on vashj every week and has been for the past 6months. At best they're getting loot that's equal to almost 1year old loots, and will down a whooping 6bosses in T6 content due to attunement removal. Then they'll bang their head against archimonde or RoS and never get past that anyway. But at least they'll have seen Black Temple with their own eyes, they'll have seen Mount Hyjal with their own eyes. Much better than preBC where a lot of people had never seen past huhuran or anubrekan/razuvious.

 

Karoo

What? It does nothing in PVP even vs. blue geared PvPers? What on earth could possibly drive you to such a conclusion?

It certainly couldn't be resillience. Because aside from the very few mediocre dungeon blue drops with resillience there is no blue gear out there with resillience.

Meaning even your t4 geared PvE'rs could quite handily destroy a blue geared player assuming equal skill level. And you should know by now that this game isn't balanced for 1 on 1 PvP.