The issue here is what classes have 5 minute abilities?
Rogues do with Adrenaline Rush. Rapid Fire untalented is. Warriors cooldowns are either shorter or much longer. Mages ones are 3 minutes. Warlocks don't have any. Shamans are 2-3 minutes. Priests don't really have any. Neither do druids, well I guess treants are 3 minutes. Basically as you can see here most cooldown classes are based around the 3 minute timer, and trinkets of course on 2 minutes. This favors fights like Teron, but not Brutallus at 6 minutes. Also add in that many classes will have to fuck up their trinket rotations to sync them with heroism, especially mages/warriors who want heroism under 20%. This should be now more of a pure dps test though, especially given lack of pushback on casters.
Shortest kill I could find in WWS using the ghosts to DPS = 2:17
Shortest kill I could find in WWS that excluded the ghosts = 2:38
Lets get a bit more aggressive and and say the 2:17 group could taken down the boss in 2:30 exlcuding the ghosts. 4.9 million HPs over 150 seconds results in a RDPS of 32666.
I am confused at what you mean that it would take a 2:17 guild longer to kill Teron if they didn't have ghosts. He would get killed in just as much time (probably faster if DPS was getting ghosted). Even though the ghosts do a lot do dps, they don't do it to Teron, they do it to constructs.
From our kill this week, we have two parses a separate Teron only parse with ghosts, and our whole BT raid which doesn't have ghosts as pets.
With Ghosts: 39,992 dps, 2:17 - WWS
Without Ghosts: 36850 dps, 2:19 - WWS
Think the time is off by a small amount because of some rounding errors WWS does. But you can see in the "browse combat log" that first hit to Teron and when he dies occurs at same time.
One of the interesting things about Brutallus is his placement in content. With only 6 bosses in Sunwell, DPS classes will likely not be upgrading all of their slots with huge upgrades the way they did going from initial Patchwerk kills to fully Naxx geared Patchwerk kills, or even the upgrades gotten from going to t6 from t5./tailoring.
This fight, if left with its current DPS requirement, should remain relatively unchanged in difficulty from a DPS perspective from a first kill to subsequent kills.
I am confused at what you mean that it would take a 2:17 guild longer to kill Teron if they didn't have ghosts. He would get killed in just as much time (probably faster if DPS was getting ghosted). Even though the ghosts do a lot do dps, they don't do it to Teron, they do it to constructs.
From our kill this week, we have two parses a separate Teron only parse with ghosts, and our whole BT raid which doesn't have ghosts as pets.
With Ghosts: 39,992 dps, 2:17 - WWS
Without Ghosts: 36850 dps, 2:19 - WWS
Think the time is off by a small amount because of some rounding errors WWS does. But you can see in the "browse combat log" that first hit to Teron and when he dies occurs at same time.
I am confused at what you mean that it would take a 2:17 guild longer to kill Teron if they didn't have ghosts. He would get killed in just as much time (probably faster if DPS was getting ghosted). Even though the ghosts do a lot do dps, they don't do it to Teron, they do it to constructs.
I assume he means in the case that the ghost was being used to DPS teron, rather than helping others with their ghosts.
Are the people who are saying that a 6min fight isn't that different from a 3min accounting for rotating blood lusts? If you run 3 shaman, your melee group can have 66% uptime on bloodlust. This horse is probably about beaten to death though.
Just a side note, but the patch notes at WoW -> Test Realm Patch Notes look like they're current or close to it. The include the PvP armor changes, mention that Nether Vortexes and Primal Nethers are no longer bind on pickup, and a few other things.
The only major one that I noticed there, that hasn't been talked about yet, was that Arcane Explosion's damage cap was raised by 50%. There might be more, but I'm a mage so I only pay attention to my class.
Thanks for the feedback. The Restoration 4-piece Gladiator set bonus has been changed in the next PTR build. It is now the old Stormrage set-bonus, which is -.2 seconds off Regrowth. In addition, the speed bonus to Cheetah will remain on the Feral 4-piece Gladiator set bonus.
First, when people say "with ghosts" it's a parsing error, not actually using the damn ghosts to DPS Teron. Some WWS parses count the ghost damage done to constructs as part of the RDPS (tell-tale sign of this is if you see a Teron with >5mil total damage done).
Second, in this thread I see a lot of people who haven't seen Brutallus talking/speculating/etc. about Brutallus. Less of that.
This conversation is dumb. If there isn't anything new about 2.4 to discuss, then leave the thread idle until the next PTR patch.
This conversation is dumb. If there isn't anything new about 2.4 to discuss, then leave the thread idle until the next PTR patch.
There is one thing, Gurg. I just heard (and read on the PTR patch notes page) that mage's Arcane Explosion damage cap was raised by 50%. Having a (albeit low-level) mage alt, I say, it's time to bring a hurtin' to a whole lot of mobs.
That's a big missconception that people believe shorter fights automatically mean higher CD up time. Heroism aside, a 6 min fight is way better than a 3 min fight for almost every class, considering that most powerful CDs are 3 or 5 min.
Basically, 2 min CD abilities (potions, drums, class abilities) favor 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 min fights. You get less drums up time procent in a 2 min fight than in a 3 min fight, way less. 3 min CDs, favor 4, 7, 10 min fights. 5 min CDs, which are normally the most powerful ones, all favor 6 min fights.
(edit) Never mind, post deleted, I won't continue the arguing per Gurg's post a few ahead of mine.
Summary is: no, I didn't make a misconception, I think you're misunderstanding that we're explicitly and specifically talking about Gorefiend versus Brutalis not "an arbitrary short fight" and "an arbitrary long fight".
Thanks for the feedback. The Restoration 4-piece Gladiator set bonus has been changed in the next PTR build. It is now the old Stormrage set-bonus, which is -.2 seconds off Regrowth. In addition, the speed bonus to Cheetah will remain on the Feral 4-piece Gladiator set bonus.
What irks me about this, while the new changes were needed as their first changes were idiotic, they implement PvP adaptions far quicker and still haven't touched the T6 one.
So much balancing these days comes due to effects in PvP rather than any general class problems as a whole its... questionable.
What irks me about this, while the new changes were needed as their first changes were idiotic, they implement PvP adaptions far quicker and still haven't touched the T6 one.
So much balancing these days comes due to effects in PvP rather than any general class problems as a whole its... questionable.
Fact is, with WoW going to pro-gaming events, they need to get the PvP fixes in perfect order (or as close as possible) before they work on PvE ones. Honestly? I'm personally more concerned about PvE, but as long as they get to the PvE concerns before it hits live, I'm happy. At this point, it looks like they will. That's just speculation and RL debate talking, though.
On the topic itself, the AE damage cap going up means little for PvE (Unless your guild, like mine, is still doing Tidewalker and Solarian), however it means MUCH more in Alterac Valley. Bridge/Low-Road fights, I'm looking at you.
To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.
Edit: The Lurker Below dropped 2 Badge of Justice but no Essence of Immortals. Last open questions: Will T6 non endboss bosses like Winterchill drop Essence of Immortals or not? I guess not.
I am confused at what you mean that it would take a 2:17 guild longer to kill Teron if they didn't have ghosts. He would get killed in just as much time (probably faster if DPS was getting ghosted). Even though the ghosts do a lot do dps, they don't do it to Teron, they do it to constructs.
From our kill this week, we have two parses a separate Teron only parse with ghosts, and our whole BT raid which doesn't have ghosts as pets.
With Ghosts: 39,992 dps, 2:17 - WWS
Without Ghosts: 36850 dps, 2:19 - WWS
Think the time is off by a small amount because of some rounding errors WWS does. But you can see in the "browse combat log" that first hit to Teron and when he dies occurs at same time.
2:19 is the number then, its fine either way it was just a post to lend some step through logical numbers to what appeared to be a back and forth over the influence of CDs for 2 something minute fights versus 6 minute fights. Change the 2:30 to 2:19 its the same result, thanks for the clarification though. Time for the discussion to move on per Gurg's request.
What irks me about this, while the new changes were needed as their first changes were idiotic, they implement PvP adaptions far quicker and still haven't touched the T6 one.
So much balancing these days comes due to effects in PvP rather than any general class problems as a whole its... questionable.
Well it's a good change nonetheless, there was no reason to nerf feral, or give a healing touch bonus. Hopefully they change T6 set too, but with the various changes in 2.4, I'm not sure I'll be able to get 4pc without losing stats anyway, so it'd have to be really good. I mean, LW chest+gloves, engineering helm, archimonde cloth legs, only leaves bracer belt shoulders and boots, but boots drop quite late in sunwell. I'd lose any 4bonus the moment 2.4 goes live, so whatever they change wouldn't affect me, and really shouldn't affect anyone unless you have "forced" tradeskills for the guild.
In absolute, I guess I'd like to see T6 bonus changed, just so Blizzard shows they actually have a clue about druids, at all.
For those of you who've raided on test, how do you find your holy paladins performing relative to druids and priests, compared to live servers? I'm wondering what impact the spirit change will have in terms of how paladins compare to other healers, specifically druids and priests.
Anyone noticed the distinct lack of any new alchemy items?
What could Alchemy actually get now days to make it more useful?
Stronger BoP potions? Perhaps Elixirs thats last through death (resulting in a gold saving cost only to be fair)?
What could Alchemy actually get now days to make it more useful?
Stronger BoP potions? Perhaps Elixirs thats last through death (resulting in a gold saving cost only to be fair)?
An upgraded Alchemist's Stone that has the additional effect of giving a % bonus to the effects from all elixirs and flasks?
Looking through the patch note to see if anything else had been added I found the following that I don't remember seeing before
Arenas
* Queue times for arena matches have been reduced. Players will now be able to enter matches faster than previously.
* Players feared outside of the Arena (through the world or outside the arena walls) will now be teleported back to the center of the arena map.
02/15/08, 2:50 PM
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