2.4 PTR and Patch Notes - Page 91

Kasi · 02/20/08, 8:10 PM

Originally Posted by Zifna

Why Blizzard, oh why, have you put 51 hit rating on Elemental Shaman T6 Belt and Boots? And oodles of it on other pieces? I only need 51 to be hitcapped. Draenai Shaman, I believe, need 38-39.

There is 118 on our full T6 set.

118.

That's more than twice as much as we need.

And we can't take it out of our +hit talents and put it in talents that will be more beneficial to our DPS if we go over cap.

Please reconsider.

Well the 51 seems rather deliberate. The 5 upgrade to current T6 gear has a grand total of 0 spell hit on it. Thus someone can wear the 3 pieces plus one other (hat or shoulders) and wear 4 new ones and be at spell hit.

Elfalora · 02/20/08, 8:12 PM

Or it's an oversight and they messed it up :O. I wouldn't mind if it was intended, though.

I wouldn't mind either. Many more guilds like us would like to "test" him.

On a more serious note, is there any word on whether the pet pathing bug on dragon Kalecgos is fixed? It would make sense if they want to disable Kalecgos, deciding that he's well tuned, so that people can concentrate on testing Brutallus, etc. However, I should hope that the pet pathing issue not make it to live, like pet shatter at Gruul. That is a real bug and should be tested, not just "tested".

The few times I tried, I had to go into melee range to force "port" my pet near him to activate pet attack.

Lookit · 02/20/08, 8:19 PM

Kalgan on the state of the shaman class:

WoW BlueTracker: Shaman: The Thread

Originally Posted by Kalgan

Shamans in general will be getting buffs to go along with their nerfs. Bear in mind that there's still quite a bit that hasn't been implemented yet.

I'd share some of these with you, but some of them might not be technically do-able for this patch, which in turn changes some of our decisions about exactly what changes we make, so we're hesitant to give specifics until the work has been done.

Philosophically though, we're planning to make a number of improvements related to the totem dropping mechanic, improving specific under-used totems, and a few other non-totem related improvements.

To provide a little bacground, our general outlook on the class is that they're actually in good shape for all 3 specs for raid PvE, on the weak side for heroic PvE, pretty solid in battlegrounds and 5v5, on the weak side in 3v3, and pretty well gimped in 2v2. We're hoping to get at least 1 spec viable in 2v2 for this patch (we're thinking Enhance), but hopefully all three specs will be viable for 3v3.

Illundai · 02/20/08, 8:25 PM

That is honestly the first time I see a blue acknowledge the weak state of Shaman PvP and small group PvE. It's about darn time.

I'm already excited by the fact they are looking into the totem dropping mechanic and are wanting to improve the underused totems. Not to mention, making my preferred spec viable in Arena. Hurray for that.

[e] did that thread just get deleted?

Chirality · 02/20/08, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lookit

Kalgan on the state of the shaman class:

WoW BlueTracker: Shaman: The Thread

I've always thought that Resto was much closer to 2v2 viability than Enhancement.

The issue with Enhancement, of course, is that I don't see a natural partner for 2v2. Druid? Perhaps, a healer that brings CC and doesn't need help to escape. Priests? Need a dps'er with CC to maximize their effectiveness, so Enhancement are out. Paladins? Perhaps with the Holy Shock buff, but paladins are still too easily locked out. Another shaman? Another dps? A rogue, perhaps?

I really don't see how Enhancement can be effective in 2v2 simply because I can't imagine a huge synergy with them. Restoration, on the other hand, seems very close to being very effective with a Warrior.

Rane · 02/20/08, 8:30 PM

The three changed tier 6 Gronnstalker pieces are fucking awesome now, though it's a shame they messed up a few other sets. The tier 6 stuff was missing a fair amount of hit and this will let me keep my 4 pc bonus with enough hit for a few better SW25 parts, which I'm definitely looking forward to.

The belt is better than Boneweaver's, the wrist is close if not better than the Supremus ones and the boots are just goddamn delicious.

Crazytrucker · 02/20/08, 8:34 PM

Lookit · 02/20/08, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by Illundai

[e] did that thread just get deleted?

It appears so. It wouldn't be the first time that a mod has meant to delete an offensive post and accidentally deleted a thread with a developer response in it. Due to the amount of shit kicked up by dev posts, there is typically a flurry of mod activity afterwards. Kalgan's post is still available on blue.cardplace of course.

Originally Posted by Crazytrucker

Anyone know how to get around the "no instance servers are available" if you logged out inside Sunwell?

My hunch is the instance servers will be very briefly unavailable while they fully removed Kalecgos and his trash. I'd try again in a few minutes.

Soulcow · 02/20/08, 8:37 PM

I just checked the EU PVE PTR and the trash and Kalecgos are gone.

• Playered · 02/20/08, 8:39 PM

It was deleted and reposted in the Shaman forum, error or so (chill out).

Krag · 02/20/08, 8:40 PM

Originally Posted by Illundai

That is honestly the first time I see a blue acknowledge the weak state of Shaman PvP and small group PvE. It's about darn time.

I'm already excited by the fact they are looking into the totem dropping mechanic and are wanting to improve the underused totems. Not to mention, making my preferred spec viable in Arena. Hurray for that.

Not to get into a whole shaman balance debate here (I'm all for the changes, especially any totem improvements, and even if shamans were to get "overpowered" I wouldn't care), but I've never noticed shamans being particularly weak in heroics or small group PvE in general.

Edit: And you can find Kalgan's comments through the search.

◊ Praetorian · 02/20/08, 8:42 PM

Originally Posted by Krag

Not to get into a whole shaman balance debate here (I'm all for the changes, especially any totem improvements, and even if shamans were to get "overpowered" I wouldn't care), but I've never noticed shamans being particularly weak in heroics or small group PvE in general.

Well everyone overgears everything now and everything has been nerfed a million times. As DPS, shamans lack any form of CC which is a prized trait in a 5man DPS class if the content is actually challenging. As a healer, our group healing is lacking unless it's a situation where we can use chain heal -- same problems paladins can run into in many encounters -- and we only have a timered NS as an "oh shit" button. It's really not a problem if you're skilled and well-geared, but I can see how they're a bit on the weak side compared to some other classes.

Crazytrucker · 02/20/08, 8:43 PM

Figured should post this before its asked to turn on Raid/Raid Warnings/Officer, etc you need to right click your general Chat box -> Settings.

• Playered · 02/20/08, 8:45 PM

Originally Posted by Krag

Not to get into a whole shaman balance debate here (I'm all for the changes, especially any totem improvements, and even if shamans were to get "overpowered" I wouldn't care), but I've never noticed shamans being particularly weak in heroics or small group PvE in general.

Edit: And you can find Kalgan's comments through the search.

Im going to guess the 'weakness' is from a lack of CC which 'all' other classes have which is often 'required' in certain instances, on the grounds of DPS or Healing alone they are perfectly capable in small group PvE and heroics.

In sembalance to Druids, we have a dodgey CC (Roots + Cyclone) and a dodgey resurrection spell, while they have a fully working resurrection spell and a completly pathetic form of CC.

Lets not get into the argument about healing though, Paladins lack AoE but have great survivability, Druids have pretty rounded healing but have a really shit heavy healing spell, Priests (and Druids to a degree) lack survivability but have a much wider range of heals to provide.

Lookit · 02/20/08, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

It was deleted and reposted in the Shaman forum, error or so (chill out).

Actually, it was deleted without Kalgan's knowledge and then a player reposted it in the Shaman forums asking "Where the heck did the thread go?" Kalgan's response was:

I have no idea where the thread went lol. I'll check with the forum mods. We can pretend for now that it was this thread instead.

So yeah, I'd bet my guess is right on the money.

Krag · 02/20/08, 8:53 PM

Weaknesses duly noted, as I said it wasn't meant to clutter up the thread with in depth shaman discussion. I'm probably biased since the group I did heroics with from the very start pretty much always had a resto and elemental shaman

graver · 02/20/08, 8:58 PM

I just compared stats of new versions of t6 belt, bracer, feet of mages and warlocks, results are pissing me off.

Warlocks have:
same spell damage
1 less spell haste raiting
20 more spell crit raiting
11 more spell hit raiting
2 more intellect
while mages have 54 more spirit.

Do they call that fair?

• Playered · 02/20/08, 9:02 PM

Originally Posted by graver

I just compared stats of new versions of t6 belt, bracer, feet of mages and warlocks, results are pissing me off.

Warlocks have:
same spell damage
1 less spell haste raiting
20 more spell crit raiting
11 more spell hit raiting
2 more intellect
while mages have 54 more spirit.

Do they call that fair?

From a stat to stat point your correct, mages have gained more (2+11+20-1 = 32, vs 54), atleast try and be somewhat constructive with the whine and dont leave it at just QQ.

Incase no-one saw, the new Jewelcrafting trinket recipies are available via reputation than being random drops.

Chirality · 02/20/08, 9:07 PM

New stuff on worldofraids.com:

Drain mana has been reverted back to 200 mana per second.
Emberstorm talent change: Rank 1 now increases Incinerate casting time by 2%.

I applaud the Drain Mana change. Though Drain Mana itself is far less mana drained per second than, for example, Mana Burn, it's also the hardest to counter via Line of Sight.

The Emberstorm change, however, is very odd. I can imagine that they're attempting to buff Incinerate and give warlocks a reason to spec Improved Immolate, Conflag, and Emberstorm, but the wording of the screenshot is very curious. I know of no other example in warcraft in which "reduces the cast time by 2%" is used instead of "reduces the cast time by 0.1 seconds". Of course, the 2% is not 0.1 seconds to Incinerate, so it's clear to me that they're attempting to balance Firelocks a bit more carefully.

Caligula · 02/20/08, 9:08 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

From a stat to stat point your correct, mages have gained more (2+11+20-1 = 32, vs 54), atleast try and be somewhat constructive with the whine and dont leave it at just QQ.

Big innervates for mages?

panny · 02/20/08, 9:09 PM

Originally Posted by Chirality

I've always thought that Resto was much closer to 2v2 viability than Enhancement.

The issue with Enhancement, of course, is that I don't see a natural partner for 2v2. Druid? Perhaps, a healer that brings CC and doesn't need help to escape. Priests? Need a dps'er with CC to maximize their effectiveness, so Enhancement are out. Paladins? Perhaps with the Holy Shock buff, but paladins are still too easily locked out. Another shaman? Another dps? A rogue, perhaps?

I really don't see how Enhancement can be effective in 2v2 simply because I can't imagine a huge synergy with them. Restoration, on the other hand, seems very close to being very effective with a Warrior.

I've found Restokin Druids to be damn good with Enhancement in 2v2. Used to have a Priest, but got stuck around 1800. The 2.4 druid nerfs might change a few things, not entirely sure though.

Lookit · 02/20/08, 9:11 PM

Originally Posted by Chirality

New stuff on worldofraids.com:

Drain mana has been reverted back to 200 mana per second.
Emberstorm talent change: Rank 1 now increases Incinerate casting time by 2%.

I'm assuming this should be "decreases"?

Dancing Wu Li Master · 02/20/08, 9:13 PM

Originally Posted by Lookit

I'm assuming this should be "decreases"?

New PTR Build - Tier 6 and class changes
MMO-Champion has it as "increases the casting speed". It's not enough to make Incinerate (and Fire Destro in general) worthwhile, but it does suggest that Blizzard is going to make further changes to try and acheive that.

Chirality · 02/20/08, 9:14 PM

Originally Posted by Lookit

I'm assuming this should be "decreases"?

It's "increases casting time" on WorldofRaids.com post, though the intent is clearly either "increases casting speed" or "decreases casting time".

For what it's worth, the screenshot says "Increase the damage done by your fire spells by 2% and reduces the cast time of your Incinerate spell by 2%".
http://www.worldofraids.com/2008/ptr/24/emberstorm.jpg

Edit: Beaten to it

raffy · 02/20/08, 9:21 PM

Negative resilience is an awesome idea (although it would have to be toggled off when outside of the PvP ruleset since would be bad for Feral tanks).