Jayde

It seems to me that the best solution would be to make the PvP set a 5-set bonus, rather than the PvE set...considering that the nerf was, for all intents and purposes, only due to PvP.

Nerfing PvE gear/design/skills simply for arena balance is a silly prospect and should be dealt with in a manner specific to arenas/PvP. (For instance, they could have easily implemented the drinking change ONLY in arenas instead of everywhere, as to not be a total pain to raiding and grinding.)

 

flyingtoastr

All other trinkets that have a click effect put a cooldown on other click trinkets as well though. All this does is standardize it with every single other trinket in the game.

 

rochan

Well if you recall the original reason why trinkets were nerfed so you could only use one at a time was basically because a mage/warlock could double his spell damage with ZHC/TOEP and 2 shot people in pvp. The game has changed dramatically since then and no one even uses damage trinkets in serious pvp.
So yet again, pvp results in retarded pve changes.

 

Elendril

I'm not arguing that it's on the same power level - I'm saying that the argument "But it drops from Illidan/It's so important in the lore" is the same as "But it's a legendary!". They're arbitrary rationalizations for an item to function outside the rules of balance all other similar items fall under. Abacus of Violent Odds does not stack with Bloodlust Brooch, and if an epic version dropped from Illidan, it shouldn't either. That is my point.

 

songster

It could be implemented as part of specific PvE set bonuses rather than something they slap on every PvE item. That means you can wear your PvE gear in the Arena if you like, but you can't put on a full PvE output. Even if it was only the T6 4-piece, that would seem to achieve the aim of the current re-itemisation much more cleanly. The intent seems fairly clear - to stop people using the Sunwell set items to get both the PvP 4-piece bonus and the T6 4-piece bonus. So why not just make the T6 4-piece bonus give -400 resilience? That would still let you wear three pieces of the new T6 along with the Gladiator set.

Only class I see that would have problem with that is feral tanks, who use resilience for crit immunity at lower gear levels - but is that still the case at T6 level?

 

Sayessa

The tooltip is messed up. With 5/5 Emberstorm, my incinerate cast time is still 2,5 secs and the reduced casting time is only visible on rank 1 emberstom.

 

Sillia

The change has only happened fairly recently that the damage trinkets were replaced. Before season 3, nearly every non-healer used either [Bloodlust Brooch] or [Icon of the Silver Crescent] in the arena for that controlled burst damage.

However, this does not change the fact that the established shared cooldown of trinkets has been around even longer. There's no reason for them to change the mechanic now, esp. since it has been around much longer than arenas have, and everyone understands and accepts it. You don't want to equate PvP with arena, since arena is only a part of wow's pvp system. A large part, but a part nonetheless.

 

◊ Cathela

I was thinking about it this morning and came up with this idea:

1) Remove the bracers/boots/belts from the T6 sets and leave them at 5 pieces; in other words, leave the T6 sets exactly as they are on live.

2) Put the bracers/boots/belt into their own 3-piece sets. Give these sets 2-piece bonuses that are strongly slanted towards PvE (threat modification, buffs to abilities with cooldowns greater than 15 minutes, or something else with a low PvP usability)

This seems to solve the problem pretty neatly, and it also gives the opportunity to add some interesting new set bonuses to the mini-T6 sets.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Merple

I always DID like my AQ20 set. Even if the set bonus was garbage.

-In our country, any CBC reporter can dream of becoming head of state.

 

◊ Penguin

I was under the impression that the reason for doing an 8-pc T6 was that the BT/MH pieces could be replaced with non-set pieces from Sunwell. Under your suggestion, most players would eventually have to lose the T6 set bonus and only have the mini-T6 bonus.

There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake

I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai

 

Sayessa

Well, no one would use Sunwell items at all. I really doubt i can replace my 4 T6 pieces with sunwell loot and make up for the 6 % damage loss, the Sunwell items are good, but not that good. Every piece needs to have about 35 Spelldamage more than their T6 equivalents to make up for the setbonus, and then they only break even.

 

Jarlyn

My problem isn't specifically the Skull being moved onto a shared cooldown, it's that this patch seems to contain a healthy dose of caster PvE DPS nerfs, when casters are already falling farther and farther behind our physical DPS counterparts. Not trying to QQ too much here, but my class is already dragging up the rear on the scale of the "pure" DPS classes, and it's only going to get worse by the look of things.

 

JamesVZ

Upping the PvP set bonuses to 3/5 instead of 2/4 seems like the best solution. It'd also prevent certain classes with 2 different sets available from stacking them for extra +resilience (if that even works, I don't know, I only see people doing it).

Official Slackie Fanclub. The dude gets ALL the ladies.

In regards to Icecrown Radiance:

 

Thessaly

Yes, most Feral tanks use minimally the S3 Bracers, some also use the Belt, and Timelapse Shard is often used in resist sets to cover the gap, since none of our resist gear has defense on it either.

 

Fqubed

Just wondering but if some people here are so set on T6/sunwell gear either having a negative resiliance or making it unviable in Arenas, shouldnt a similar thing reflect on arena/pvp items being used in PvE as a whole? Just seems that if you cant go one way you shouldnt be able to go the other way, and 0 sta on a few pieces of gear is fairly damning as it is for Arenas.

 

◊ Cathela

Yeah, that's a good point.

I guess the best I can say in response is that the mini-set idea is better than this idea of removing stam from the new pieces, but it's still not an ideal solution.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Fenks

Considering the EU PvE realm still has it's first gate closed, I don't quite understand the motivation to remove Kalecgos for us aswell. It's probably little more than that it's easier for them to do it for all realms at the same time - but this leaves EU guilds with only two bosses to test. I think a lot of guilds here could be providing feedback on those two bosses without removing all chance for feedback on Kalecgos, even if he seems to be mostly unbugged and well-tuned that doesn't mean it's pointless to keep testing him. Doing some attempts on all 3 bosses isn't overly hard, plus, he can be skipped.

Of course, if they want more testing on other bosses, they could just knock down the first and second gate for the PTR realms that haven't achieved it yet instead of hampering the unlocking process even further. I'm reasoning from a EU guild's point of view of course so it might come off like pointless whining but it seems like everyone loses with the current solution, apart from those on the US-PvE realm.

 

Axanor

Because the PTR is not your personal playground for learning a boss.

 

Lookit

With the removal of stamina from the Sunwell T6 gear, Blizzard was pretty clearly trying to discourage their use in PvP without resulting to any arbitrary nerfs (such as suddenly making the Arena sets have a 5-piece bonus instead of 4-piece). Overall, the idea was a good one, but unfortunately the actual execution of the reitemization appears to have been done pretty hastily, and some oversights were made. Spell hit on holy priest gear, no stamina on the feral pieces, etc.

While a lot of the suggestions over the past couple pages have merit, I think the simplest and most teneble solution is for the itemization team to just take another sweep of the Sunwell items and fix the issues players are complaining about. Add some stamina to cloth pieces. Add a lot to the feral pieces. Remove spell hit from holy priest gear and crit from shadow priest gear, etc.

I really think Blizzard was intending all the raiders to be as happy with this change as the warriors and hunters have been, but that the implementation was just too hasty. They seem to have been thinking "How will we keep people from using these in the arena? We'll just tailor them to be the ultimate min/max raid gear."

 

Gumibear

I'd worry they'll break something on Kalecgos in a new build and it won't be caught since no one can test him anymore.

 

Daenerys

The thing that scares me about Kalecgos being removed is that he is far from polished, at least from my point of view. With my Hunter, I can't even use my pet on the dragon. He just sits there doing nothing, and the only way I've found to move him is to Feign Death, as for whatever strange reason that ports him right to my location. Very buggy encounter if you're a Hunter.

 

Vaccine

I think you misunderstand him. His point was that now with Kalecgos removed its going to take even longer for us to open the next gate. So we're lagging behind and can't help test the latter encounters cos we can't even open the gates.

 

• Chicken

Most likely once Brutallus and Felmyst have been satisfactorily tested the gate will just be opened by Blizzard regardless of the gate progress.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Ghando

Seeing as they clearly want to focus their testing efforts on Brutallus and he's available, I don't see the problem. People really need to get past the progression/e-peen aspects of the PTR; Blizzard expedites testing for the bosses they need testing on. If that means your particular raid gets Brutallus death-touched so you can go on and test Felmyst/Twins then cool, you get to see things that fewer people have seen. But really, the PTR is not about you or your guild. It's about helping the devs tune and polish an important raiding zone that tons of people will enjoy. Serious PTR raiding is more a community service than anything--treat it that way and don't expect rewards aside from the fun you have doing it.

And regarding Kalecgos, there are some well-known problems (Hunter pets, Paladin taunt) but they don't necessarily require additional testing. If Blizzard is confident they understand the issue and can fix it on their own before it goes live, why waste additional PTR time on testing it?

 

Krazen

It's still the best, yeah. But the Hexhead is a close 2nd in any hitcapped situation.