Correct me if I'm wrong, but wont boosting everyones dps sort of lower your survivability requirements as the fights will be shorter and more mana can be spent in a shorter timeframe compensating for the lower total raid hp ? Not as much time will be spent regenerating mana because you don't need to last as long.
I'm talking far out of my league here, thats a given, but when you look at the synergies in 2.4 when it comes to progression "boosting" (more & better gear trough badges, more honor due to no diminishing returns == easier honor gear, no keying for T6 instances and the whole plethora of other tweaks) it just seems like Blizzard wants raiding, seen as a whole, to be faster and more accessible.
Lowering any given fights duration while still keeping it just as complex, fun and rewarding seems like just another little tweak in the oh so long list of tweaks.
Again, out of my league, I'm just talking about the possible philosophy behind it.
It depends on the reason Blizzard changed the items - what I hope is that the later bosses require more DPS and feature less periodic raid damage.
What I suspect is that this was a crude round of nerfs for the sake of Arenas.
If Blizzard does a good job of tuning Sunwell with the itemization changes in mind (~1000 less health), everybody wins in the end. And in fact, things like getting hit rating on T6 hunter gear is great because it's an itemization hole which is now getting addressed. So, even if the changes have shady provenance there is still time before 2.4 hits to modify the raid bosses.
I still won't like gear with no stamina, but as long as I won't miss that stamina while inside SW25 I'll be perfectly fine with the final 3 pieces of T6.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wont boosting everyones dps sort of lower your survivability requirements as the fights will be shorter and more mana can be spent in a shorter timeframe compensating for the lower total raid hp ? Not as much time will be spent regenerating mana because you don't need to last as long.
Its about spike/burst damage on people which generally a level of <x>HP is required to *most often* survive, this is not to be confused with endurance (ie: Regeneration) to which higher DPS tends to make up for a lack of it.
In a different vein, the summer event is enabled on the newest build of the PTR.
The fireworks vendor in Silvermoon (north end of the bazaar) has been selling summer-event-themed fireworks since the PTR opened. It makes sense that they would be adding all of the summer stuff in the same patch.
"there really are no positive effects from the change"
Enhancement shaman gear lack of expertice, some SSC drops(leather) was best of slot becouse of that. With new 3*t6 + expertice trinket we are sitting at expertice cap. That is very good change and boost dps when dps will matter. Every raider should have dps + stamina gear. I personally like first gear more.
Blizzard has made it pretty clear they're not interested in ideas like that. Go read WoW BlueTracker: 150 Badges for 2.4 Items = Grind Intensifies They say, and I agree, that the high cost of the items in badges is sufficient to limit them to "less casual" people.
Really, think about the math on this. A single new weapon costs 150 badges. That's eight weeks of full Karazhan clears. Wrath of the Lich King will be out long before "non-raiders" get more than two pieces of the new badge gear.
C'mon - if you never set foot in Kara, you only play 2 hours a night, 5 days a week you can get 30 badges a week just doing the daily heroic.
The very average casual player with some ability and experience that is in bits of T4/Crafted + Heroic gear without setting foot in anything other than heroics can get some T5.5 weapon(s) in 5 weeks.
That's pretty damn good. If they happen to do a couple of extra heroics, and maybe half a pug Kara, they could stretch that up to the massive 50 badges per week.
I don't know about anybody else, but I reckon that's just about right. If you want the gear, you can do 1 heroic a day, and it's still not far out of reach.
This isn't anything other than identifying the "8 weeks of full Kara" statements which I believe are completely out of proportion. The badges are good, the items are good, the prices are good for everybody.
Last edited by pewsey : 02/21/08 at 7:57 PM.
Pewsey has heard about tact and discretion, but tends to regard them much as children view vegetables.
There are only two kinds of MMOs: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody plays. (inspired by Bjarne Stroustrup)
Re: Pitbuller
You don't seem to grasp the fact that YOUR spec gaining a few % extra damage, and my class will gain a similar amount.. while impacting negatively on other classes raid itemisation heavily, effectively does nothing but hurt the other classes.
Warlocks will still do x damage relative to enh shaman. Blizzard will have to balance encounters around this new damage gain.
Afaik, with 2.4 gear pre this tier 6 change, no old (t5) raid items with expertise on them would be best in game for an enh shaman. If expertise is such a important stat that they need on gear, then for all means add it on but not at the cost on stam on tiered gear.
Re: Inkm
The issue is more burst damage as someone said above, you simply need a certain amount of hitpoints to not get insta-gibbed by some scenarios in certain fights.
Shame as that was the best blue socket gem :<. However with the lack of itemization on those 3 slots it doesn't seem too bad to go for socket bonuses anymore, making the shadowsong amethyst more attractive.
The new Slave Pens boss (for the fire festival) is dropping item level 115 epics, saw a melee cloak nearly the same as Blood Knight's Cloak from Badges.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
- everyone would have worn the old t6 because it was best in slot already (with set bonuses)
Warriors and ret paladins would not have. Only the Helm and Shoulders are best-in-slot for warriors if you restrict yourself to plate, and none for ret paladins. Ret Paladins get 0 usage out of their 4 piece bonus and Warrior's 4 piece bonus is worth roughly 15 str. Of the new pieces before the changes, only the warrior bracers were actually an upgrade.
Originally Posted by weet
So looking at raiding and itemisation as a whole, there really are no positive effects from the change yet it has a lot of downsides.
The new changes are in fact massive upgrades to the two aforementioned classes, as our best belt was from T5, and before the changes, that would have remained true.
If it wasnt obvious when i say old i mean pre-change t6 bracers/boot/belt, of which in the warrior theorycraft thread says the belt and bracers are both 35 dps upgrades. I am aware currently warriors use only some t6 due to better offset alternatives. Perhaps the boots are worse than Requilary boots, so is the pre-change tier6 belt vs belt of blasting before set bonuses.
The point is having the tunnel vision of a dps class saying 'I want this no-stam gear because it is a dps upgrade to me', is ignoring the negative effects the change has on itemisation as a whole.
The new Slave Pens boss (for the fire festival) is dropping item level 115 epics, saw a melee cloak nearly the same as Blood Knight's Cloak from Badges.
ilvl 110. But 4 cloaks much the same as the 4 ilvl 110 Badge cloaks, tanking cloak was modified to be more generic.If it follows the same pattern their will be a non cloak epic drop.
Wow, what a bunch of weirdo warlocks. When i saw the new sunwell t6 changes I was ecstatic. I would gladly drop the stats for the damage modifiers. The amount of stamina lost might be enough to save me from death maybe once a month. Generally locks have more HP than just about any class sans tanks in final gearset so the arguement for 'i need that stam for raidwide damage' isn't exactly the greatest since if no heals went around warlocks would be one of the last to die unless you tapped yourself before a massive aoe. Hell, lots of locks still wear belt of blasting which has no stam itself, so for them your only losing the stam from bracers/boot changes.
We even get improved healing with felarmor. Once I tap i almost immediately have a lifebloom started, in which i can take 2 ticks of that...tap again and bloom fills me back up.
I hope it stays how it is. For dps those 3 pieces are amazing. The hard part is figuring which old T6 piece to keep. Just don't play stupid and that stamina you could have had will not matter.
Not a major change but [Shifting Tanzanite] has had its stats changed in the last ptr build.
that was the saddest news I read so far, also don't see why they made it agility when it use to be 5 Strength first. So guess I'll need to buy a new blue gem for the bracers
that was the saddest news I read so far, also don't see why they made it agility when it use to be 5 Strength first. So guess I'll need to buy a new blue gem for the bracers
Ostensibly because almost every other Heroic/PvP gem follows the same naming conventions as standard uncommon/rare/epic gems, and [Shifting Nightseye] is agi/stam.
That's pretty damn good. If they happen to do a couple of extra heroics, and maybe half a pug Kara, they could stretch that up to the massive 50 badges per week.
This sounds about right. I had no problem getting the bulk of the Paladin tanking items just from chain running Heroics.
I'm looking forward to the changes to revitalize the casual PvE game. Arena gear probably mudflated the economy faster than intended. If griefing other players is what you're into, it's even better than comparable PvE gear for that. PvE needed to put out compelling alternatives to playing ~1500 arena and suicide rush AV. T4 gear is pretty much out-dated and the barrier to start get to the good stuff (T6) was too high with not enough meaningful rewards on the way. While the fights have gotten more compelling, the flip side is you still need to learn the mechanics, even when you grossly out-gear them.
Wow, what a bunch of weirdo warlocks. When i saw the new sunwell t6 changes I was ecstatic. I would gladly drop the stats for the damage modifiers. The amount of stamina lost might be enough to save me from death maybe once a month. Generally locks have more HP than just about any class sans tanks in final gearset so the arguement for 'i need that stam for raidwide damage' isn't exactly the greatest since if no heals went around warlocks would be one of the last to die unless you tapped yourself before a massive aoe. Hell, lots of locks still wear belt of blasting which has no stam itself, so for them your only losing the stam from bracers/boot changes.
We even get improved healing with felarmor. Once I tap i almost immediately have a lifebloom started, in which i can take 2 ticks of that...tap again and bloom fills me back up.
I hope it stays how it is. For dps those 3 pieces are amazing. The hard part is figuring which old T6 piece to keep. Just don't play stupid and that stamina you could have had will not matter.
I don't understand why everyone argues version 1 vs. version 2 when it's not too late for Blizzard to make a third version which drops undesirable stats (intellect for Warlocks, spell crit for Shadow Priests, etc) for Stamina.
Sorry but as of late I don't find int undesirable, I'd rather have a high enough mana pool to sustain me as much as possible before I need to tap given potting, fully buffed, shadow priest and resto shaman. When your SB effectively costs less than ~200 mana it's a lot easier to see the benefits of int.
Sorry but as of late I don't find int undesirable, I'd rather have a high enough mana pool to sustain me as much as possible before I need to tap given potting, fully buffed, shadow priest and resto shaman. When your SB effectively costs less than ~200 mana it's a lot easier to see the benefits of int.
Uh what? A shadow priest, super mana pots, and mana spring totem give you the same regen whether you have an 8k mana pool or a 10k mana pool. Mana tide is the only thing you're getting that's scaling with your intellect.
Uh what? A shadow priest, super mana pots, and mana spring totem give you the same regen whether you have an 8k mana pool or a 10k mana pool. Mana tide is the only thing you're getting that's scaling with your intellect.
I think what he meant is if he regenerates less than he spends casting (and that's almost always the case), you want to have more mana so you can nuke for longer periods.
Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
PvE needed to put out compelling alternatives to playing ~1500 arena and suicide rush AV.
Totally agree there. My Druid was originally Feral, but after a sudden shortage of healers in guild, had to switch to Resto. 3 weeks of AV grinding had me at 4/5 S1, and the Non-set boots/belt/bracers. More than enough for the Kz runs she was required for. I've now switched to badge grinding for Moonkin gear since I prefer ranged caster to melee anyway. My current "progress" on this toon is 1 x Kz, 2 x (3/4) Za and at least the daily heroic for a average of 50 badges/week, or 1 item a fortnight.
The real beauty of this is that I am guaranteed to get my item. No praying for drops, fighting other chars through DKP, no seeing the item thats been de'd for the 5th week in a row AGAIN.
Now granted, I won't be as powerful as someone who is in a raiding guild with the time to spend (and I realise that my total time spent/week is the same if not more, but 3hrs/day max for me atm) but I will be better off than I was previously. As has been pointed out many, many times, once you hit 70, the only way to progress is through gear. So I still progress - not as fast and as far as you BT/Hyjall chappies, but hey - hats of to you for your accomplishment.
02/21/08, 7:42 PM
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