Rawr (v2.3.23 released on 9/12) - Page 143

Astrylian · 05/13/09, 7:14 PM

Kalbear, that's not 'somewhat' what the optimizer is for. That's exactly what the optimizer is for. Displaying ArPen as better than Agi/Str/etc, when it's not, otherwise, would be terribly inaccurate.

There's a feature coming to visually show the scaling of different stats.

Also, yeah, DPSWarr's Agi calculations are broken in 2.2.3. We'll be releasing v2.2.4 tonight, which hopefully will fix that.

Also on that note, 2.2.3 had completely wrong values for Executioner. Don't go reenchanting your weapons, please.

Ugljesa · 05/13/09, 9:05 PM

Ok I'm confused a bit with the Cat module.

First of all, for my gearset, the gem of choice in the new release seems to be Strength. Agility was a clear winner before, what exactly changed this and is it correct or an error?

Second, I was taking a look at the weapon enchants (Mongoose/Zerker/Massacre were jumping around in the previous release so was interested in the results) and woot, Executioner is in and quite ahead of the other enchants (nothing dramatic, but basically, it's more awesome than the afore-mentioned three by a nice margin). Now, I wouldn't be so surprised by this, but the gem choices point hard towards Agility (and well, as I said above, Strength). I know that ArP is "the more the merrier" stat, but with the uptime being the same, 120 Agility AND 2% haste being beaten hands down by 120 ArP confuses me a bit, so figured to ask

Note, atm I'm stacking Agility in my DPS gear, few ArP pieces here and there, but haven't worked on it too much (it's offspec gear for me, so I grab what I can). Can post my gearset if needed, might be logged out in it as well if you can be bothered checking, usually am.

edit: hehe, Executioner thing solved, nvm that part ^^
edit2: Enabling Mangle makes Agility a winner over Strength again, but I'm still a bit at odds at why Strength would be better if I had to Mangle myself

Astrylian · 05/14/09, 4:28 AM

Agi vs Str for Cat: There are balance points where Str and Agi swap which is best, for that small range. It's quite possible to be in one of the ranges where you have enough crit chance for a full SR/Rip rotation, but not enough to make it worth it to try to Bite in the rotation as well. In those cases, until you reach that break point where it's worth it to Bite, extra combo points are wasted, creating a few lulls in the value of crit (and therefore agi). During those points, Agi drops down in value, and Str (which was 2nd best) is now best. However, those are only temporary lulls, and if you swap much Agi for Str, you'll fall out of that range. So you'll commonly find situations where Rawr finds the best way is to do mostly agi gems, with 1-2 Str gems mixed in.

Personally, I stick with all Agi, anyway, because I know that that will serve me better in the future, and allows for easier swaps of gear depending upon the situation. However, if you do want to maximize your gear for the current situation, it's quite likely that you'll include a couple Str gems.

EDIT: I'm currently testing proc rates of the various enchants, to ensure we get them defined properly for v2.2.4. Unexpectedly, the bugged effect of the Executioner proc seems to have been fixed, and the proc rate actually was significantly increased. I'll know more for sure when my tests complete, but I'm currently seeing Exec beating Mongoose, significantly.

Ugljesa · 05/14/09, 8:47 AM

Muchos gracias for the explanation, makes more sense and yeah, think I'll stick with fulltime Agi as well

Good to hear about Executioner, seeing as Zerker/Massacre are not far ahead of Mongoose, wondering if it'll beat them as well... here's hoping as the enchant looks awesome and is not too expensive ^^

Astrylian · 05/14/09, 12:38 PM

Download - Rawr - Release: Rawr 2.2.4

Tour of Rawr Movie! - YouTube - Tour of Rawr

Recent Changes:
v2.2.4.0
- Not all models are completely ready for final release. Specifically in some models the trinket effects might be missing. If that is the case please manually edit the items and give them average stats until we make everything work. We have decided that even not being completely ready we should make a release so that you can work with all the 3.1 modeling changes.
- Fix for crashing bug when editing gemming templates and custom gemmings
- Fix for the PPMs of several weapon enchants
- Rawr.Retribution: Updated to 3.1 boss armor values
- Rawr.Cat: Fix for stacking of temporary ArPen effects, with different uptimes.
- Rawr.HolyPriest: Better support for a few trinkets.

Endoscient · 05/14/09, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

- Rawr.Retribution: Updated to 3.1 boss armor values

I want to clarify that, Retribution was always using the correct 3.1 boss armor value, but it was using it regardless of target level. What I changed was to have it properly use a lower armor value for when target level was set to 80-82.

BWarner · 05/14/09, 3:26 PM

Side note, to both Astryl and the community - the Agi/Crit calculations for the DPSWarr module are still very much broken, and as such, the current model is temporarily unusable. If you need to use some modeling until it is fixed, please grab the v2.2.2 release.

This is FAIR WARNING that the model (DPSWarr) will highly skew gemming, gearing, and enchanting in a highly incorrect manner until the bug is fixed, and as such, v2.2.3 and v2.2.4 will cost you lots and lots of money if you were to follow its recommendations blindly.

Grigori · 05/14/09, 4:01 PM

Something is wrong with Spirit calculations in the Warlock module "Relative Stat Values." Selecting "Fel Armor" lowers Spirit's Relative Stat Value; selecting "Divine Spirit" increases its Relative Stat Value 15-fold; selecting (and deselecting) "Glyph of Life Tap" has no effect on its Relative Stat Value (even though it specifies the number of Life Taps used in the "Stats" tab).

kalbear · 05/14/09, 4:27 PM

Kalbear, that's not 'somewhat' what the optimizer is for. That's exactly what the optimizer is for. Displaying ArPen as better than Agi/Str/etc, when it's not, otherwise, would be terribly inaccurate.

I'm not asking that it displays arpen when it's not better currently; just that given some values where it would be going would be good. For example: if I don't have grim toll today, armor pen won't beat agi. If I try to optimize my gear around that fact, I'll be told (possibly rightly) to go for agility over armor pen right now. Except that when I go for grim toll, all of that reverses.

There's no intuitive way to determine this kind of information short of trying huge amounts of combinations of gearsets and determining what is increasing more quickly and why. The gulf I have is doing the optimizer based on your current gear vs. the 'best ever' gear. And personally, I find it somewhat cumbersome to have to do this; if you don't do this, you would naively gem one way (agility) then gem for armor pen all over again when you get that one piece; most people I would think would want to know what they're going for and be okay with being slightly suboptimal now in exchange for not having to regem/enchant everything again after getting one or two pieces of gear.

Again, it's not a suggestion that you jigger the ratings as they stand; that would be foolish. But having some visual identifier that could potentially indicate which stat is likely to improve over quantity would be helpful.

Astrylian · 05/14/09, 4:47 PM

What sort of visual identifier are you thinking of? What would it appear on, and what data would it be based on?

Regardless, I think the upcoming Stat Graph feature will really help with this; you'll be able to view a chart of either your DPS, or the value of a stat, as you gain/lose that stat.

ie, you'll be able to choose Value of ArPen, and see a graph of the exponential value of ArPen, as you scale from -1000 to +1000 ArPen, relative to current.

kalbear · 05/14/09, 5:20 PM

What sort of visual identifier are you thinking of? What would it appear on, and what data would it be based on?

Regardless, I think the upcoming Stat Graph feature will really help with this; you'll be able to view a chart of either your DPS, or the value of a stat, as you gain/lose that stat.

ie, you'll be able to choose Value of ArPen, and see a graph of the exponential value of ArPen, as you scale from -1000 to +1000 ArPen, relative to current.

That does sound very much like what would work, excellent. What I had been thinking is an up arrow/side arrow/down arrow type of arrangement next to the relative stat values (and possibly other places where there's a single stat identified, like possibly gems). So armor pen would have an arrow next to it pointing up, agility might have a sideways arrow, etc. It would be based on some arbitrary rule, such as adding 1k of that stat and seeing what the relative value is of that stat to others would be. But the stat graph sounds far more dynamic and more detailed in information provided as well as being much more flexible. Thanks!

Excession · 05/14/09, 6:42 PM

DPSWarr agility calculations are still wrong in 2.2.4 unfortunately.

Armour Penetration seems off too. I loaded Excession/Dragonblight from the armoury and Rawr is saying I have 677.3447 armour penetration rating, but my gear only has 321 rating on it.

cremor · 05/15/09, 3:32 AM

I noticed a little bug:
The enchants Gloves - Assault and Gloves - Greater Assault have their stats swapped.

Astrylian · 05/15/09, 5:12 AM

We'll be releasing v2.2.5 within the next day or two, to fix the agi and proc calculations for DPSWarr, and there are lots of fixes for DPSDK coming too (Joy!).

Dorvan · 05/15/09, 1:25 PM

I've got a feature request. It'd be nice if you could take an upgrade list and filter it by drop location (the same way you can filter it by slot right now). This would make it easy to be able to read off at a glance what your biggest upgrades from an instance are. Thanks to everyone who contributes to this projecct, it's a huge help for both my ret pally and my mage!