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Old 09/11/09, 3:50 AM   #2401
kalbear
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Balnazzar
Malleus, that's correct. At 245 resistance (what Melaar would have with the LW Bracer enchant, cloak enchant, head enchant and totem) you would expect to see a minimum resist of 20% and an average resist of 33%. Instead, if you hover over the tooltip for the resistance, you get a minimum of 30% and an average of 43%. Plus the survivability for NR appears to be off by the same factor; it looks like basically it's health * potp * NR average, which is wrong for the same reasons as above.

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Old 09/11/09, 8:28 AM   #2402
Jheusse
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Silver Hand
Would it be feasible for the Additional requirements section of the optimizer to include armor penetration? I know it's going away in the next expansion but that's still a ways away, and with feral cats getting a lot of mileage out of it I'm looking at how much I can get and at what cost in trade-offs.

I've been expecting Rawr to switch to recommending Arpen gems any time now when I get upgrades, but it still doesn't do it, even with custom epic gemsets including it and marking it available individually. Getting a lot of Deadly Ametrine recommendations but I think that's as much socket bonus as anything.

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Old 09/12/09, 7:20 AM   #2403
Bersi
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Anub'arak (EU)
I'm not quite sure if this is the right place for suggestions, but it would a nice feature if there was a way to manually enter sep values derived from other sources (like simcraft, different sheets or even own calculations) because the item comparison part of Rawr with all the filters, bars and options etc. could be still incredible usefull even when the calculation part of the module isn't finished like in case of Wlocks (or someone just want to use different calculation tools).

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Old 09/12/09, 11:33 AM   #2404
BWarner
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warrior
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by Bersi View Post
I'm not quite sure if this is the right place for suggestions, but it would a nice feature if there was a way to manually enter sep values derived from other sources (like simcraft, different sheets or even own calculations) because the item comparison part of Rawr with all the filters, bars and options etc. could be still incredible usefull even when the calculation part of the module isn't finished like in case of Wlocks (or someone just want to use different calculation tools).
It's impossible. Rawr does not use stat weightings at all in its core calculations.

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Old 09/12/09, 6:09 PM   #2405
foxglove
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by Jheusse View Post
Would it be feasible for the Additional requirements section of the optimizer to include armor penetration? I know it's going away in the next expansion but that's still a ways away, and with feral cats getting a lot of mileage out of it I'm looking at how much I can get and at what cost in trade-offs.

I've been expecting Rawr to switch to recommending Arpen gems any time now when I get upgrades, but it still doesn't do it, even with custom epic gemsets including it and marking it available individually. Getting a lot of Deadly Ametrine recommendations but I think that's as much socket bonus as anything.
Which version of Rawr are you using? The current version is updated for 3.2.2, so the ArP Nerf might be affecting you. In previous versions of Rawr, the optimizer recommended gemming for ArP in gearsets well below the gear level you're at for me; but now recommends gemming for agi in the same sets.

What does the relative stat values page show? Is agility ranked above ArP or vice versa?

Also, did you try adding ArP gemming templates?

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Old 09/12/09, 6:11 PM   #2406
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by BWarner View Post
It's impossible. Rawr does not use stat weightings at all in its core calculations.
Perhaps he should have re-phrased the request: In place of "sep" say "dps formula whose inputs are relevant stats" instead.


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Old 09/12/09, 9:32 PM   #2407
BWarner
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warrior
 
Uldum
Regardless of termage, Rawr is specifically designed to NOT take any form of Equivalency Points or Stat Weightings. There is no "DPS Formula" where a user can "input relevant stats".

Rawr is designed to take your gear, item enhancements, and buffs, and apply them to your abilities in a self-modeling fashion. It is then set up to optimize that setup for a given situation and achieve more optimally the end goal.

What you're asking Rawr to do is to ignore all of those meticulously calibrated formulae and rotations and fight modeling, and instead take your own values. That's not how it works. It instead applies your stats to your abilities, runs them through the fight modeling, and determines internally how each value affects the task you're performing. Even at this point, it does not "use" stat weightings. The closest thing it gets is the "Relative Stat Values". What this does is determine how much DPS or Survivability or Burst Healing or whatever an additional point in each relevant stat would do for you. Rawr does NOT take this number into account in any internal calculations - this is merely information provided to the user for specific purposes.

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Old 09/12/09, 10:49 PM   #2408
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
I fully understand that Rawr does not currently accept a "dps formula". However, my naive understanding of the app gave me the impression that the Optimizer was reasonably isolated from the individual modules. The modules themselves are the black-box providing the "dps formula" given a set of talents/glyphs/gear. To be clear, I'm not actually making a request but rather trying to satisfy my curiosity.

Of course, the primary word in that paragraph is "naive".......


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Old 09/12/09, 11:27 PM   #2409
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Optimizer is indeed isolated from the models in that it they're a black-box to it, yes. It can't do anything on its own, it just tries tons of inputs to the black box, to try to find the best output. It doesn't do any calculations on its own.

Rawr!

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Old 09/13/09, 11:55 AM   #2410
Junlex
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Anachronos (EU)
There appear to be some inaccuracies with stat calculations in the protection paladin model. For example, my ingame and armory read:

2,457 stamina
38.93% block chance without holy shield
68.93% block chance with holy shield
2,789 block value

After doing a straight import from armory to rawr with no buffs enabled apart from toughness from mining, and setting target level to 80, rawr presents:

2,450 stamina
38.97% block chance without holy shield
54.66% block chance with holy shield
2,795 block value

It appears that rawr might be applying diminishing returns to block rating - when I use a naked character enabling holy shield gives 30% block as it ought to.

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Old 09/13/09, 6:10 PM   #2411
Hinalover
Don Flamenco
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Kil'Jaeden
Originally Posted by Junlex View Post
There appear to be some inaccuracies with stat calculations in the protection paladin model. For example, my ingame and armory read:

2,457 stamina
38.93% block chance without holy shield
68.93% block chance with holy shield
2,789 block value

After doing a straight import from armory to rawr with no buffs enabled apart from toughness from mining, and setting target level to 80, rawr presents:

2,450 stamina
38.97% block chance without holy shield
54.66% block chance with holy shield
2,795 block value

It appears that rawr might be applying diminishing returns to block rating - when I use a naked character enabling holy shield gives 30% block as it ought to.
Rawr is using information from patch 3.2.2. So there could be discrepencies because of that. What I would suggest is to put on 1 item at a time and compare it RAWR. Also make sure your target level is set to lvl 80. Most models are set to default to lvl 83 which does diminish some stats.

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Old 09/13/09, 8:12 PM   #2412
Capstone
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Lightbringer
Block percentage does not diminish per mob level, nor does 3.2.2 include any changes to block mechanics or Holy Shield. Also, I'm fairly certain that the ProtPaladin module does not include the changes to Ardent Defender from the last patch, and thus is still strongly flawed for gear comparisons.

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Old 09/13/09, 8:37 PM   #2413
Junlex
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Anachronos (EU)
Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
Rawr is using information from patch 3.2.2. So there could be discrepencies because of that. What I would suggest is to put on 1 item at a time and compare it RAWR. Also make sure your target level is set to lvl 80. Most models are set to default to lvl 83 which does diminish some stats.
I tested with both 2.2.14 and 2.2.15 with the same results, and I did set target to level 80 as I stated.

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Old 09/13/09, 9:31 PM   #2414
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Rawr (v2.2.16 released on 9/13)

Download - Rawr - Release: Rawr 2.2.16

Tour of Rawr Movie! - YouTube - Tour of Rawr

Recent Changes:
v2.2.16.0
- Switched back to 3.2 ArPen rating conversion, since 3.2.2 still looks to be a bit out. Will release a new version as soon as 3.2.2 actually comes out.
- Rawr.Warlock: Crashing fixed! Joy! Sorry that took so long.
- Rawr.DPSWarr: Fixed a bug where dps values would come up as NaN in certain cituations. Improvements to Boss handling features. Updated default gemming templates.
- Rawr.Mage: Update PTR mode to latest 3.2.2 mechanics. Fix for resilience relevancy.
- Rawr.ProtWarr: Added support for 2T9, and a couple more trinkets. Added threat/damage from Deep Wouds
- Rawr.TankDK: Fix for blood threat numbers being way off.
- Rawr.DPSDK: Added support for 3.2.2 PTR changes.
- Rawr.HolyPriest: Added support for 2T9 and 4T9.
- Rawr.ShadowPriest: Added support for 2T9 and 4T9. Added 3.2.2 changes.
- Rawr.Elemental: Fix for T9 bonuses.

Rawr!

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Old 09/16/09, 4:51 AM   #2415
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Rawr (v2.2.17 released on 9/16)

Download - Rawr - Release: Rawr 2.2.17

Tour of Rawr Movie! - YouTube - Tour of Rawr

Recent Changes:
v2.2.17.0
- Fix for crashing bugs in Rawr.TankDK and Rawr.ProtWarr.
- Fix for not being able to load priest files saved with previous verisons of Rawr.
- Rawr.DPSWarr: Added support for Execute spam under 20%. Improved performance. Added a comparison chart for ability DPS/damage. Fix for 2T8 calculations.
- Rawr.Warlock: Tons of updates to spell damage and talent calculations. Should be more more representitive of actual results now.
- Rawr.Tree: Fix for T9 set bonuses.
- Rawr.TankDK: No longer crashes. Joy!
- Rawr.Enhance: Fixes for EnhSim export. Updated default gemming templates.
- Rawr.ProtWarr: Support for new 3.2.2 Critical Block. Fix for crash on loading protection warriors from the Armory.
- Rawr.Elemental: Fix for T9 bonuses. Fix for Flameshock periodic damage calculations.

Rawr!

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