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Old 01/18/10, 2:39 PM   #2611
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Please post that to our issue tracker, following our feature request posting guidelines. Thanks.

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Old 01/19/10, 1:14 PM   #2612
Jothay
Suit Up
 
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Human Warrior
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Hagen View Post
DBW never procced ArPen for hunters. It proccs Agi, Crit or AP.
The line posted there was a typo. It was set to proc ArP instead of AP when I set it up initially, with the content release that changed DBW we dropped the ArP for AP so that it was properly aligned for Hunters.

Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

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Old 01/20/10, 9:56 AM   #2613
Latas
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Uther
So I noticed the Nibelung proc had been modeled and added to the mage module. Does that mean the modeling is available for the other modules to move (i.e. its attached to the item) or is this unique to the mage module?

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Old 01/20/10, 12:49 PM   #2614
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Depends on the model. I think it will work at least somewhat for Moonkin (assuming you're a Moonkin), but I think it will undervalue it because I believe Moonkin gets some extra hidden chances to proc it, which Rawr.Moonkin doesn't account for yet.

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Old 01/22/10, 10:17 AM   #2615
Deathwing
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
Astrylian, is the "Crit Chance: " display figuring depression into it automatically? For cats, that is.

Last edited by Deathwing : 01/22/10 at 10:44 AM.

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Old 01/22/10, 11:17 AM   #2616
janaka
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Warrior
 
Die Silberne Hand (EU)
I'm not sure if this is ProtWarr specific, or if it affects the other tanking modules as well... but armor procs (like Quel'Serrar, The Black Heart, Ashen Tank Ring) really shouldn't count for Survival rating.
As I understand it, Survival is a measurement of how long you survive in a _worst case_ scenario, where not only avoidance won't work, but also armor procs are not active (unless they have >99% uptime).

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Old 01/22/10, 1:46 PM   #2617
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Deathwing: Yes.
Janaka: We agree, it's just a sort of odd situation. In a later version, we'll be introducing a 'Burst Survivability Value' slider, allowing you to choose how valuable temporary survivability effects are to you. The slider will range from "None" on the left, to "Averaged" in the middle, to "Full" on the right. Currently, it's just stuck on Averaged, basically. We just don't have a quick and easy way to change it yet.

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Old 01/22/10, 6:47 PM   #2618
Allev
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
The thing is, you're depending on tons of RNG in order for the worst-case scenario to happen. The number of things that need to go wrong:

- Your avoidance doesn't work back-to-back (at a minimum)-- 70%^2 = 49% of the time. If you're talking 3 hits, that's 34.3% of the time. If you're a warrior/pally, you also need to not block, so worst-case (multiple unmititgated hits) assuming 50% [dodge + miss + parry + block] happens 25% or 12.5% of the time.
- None of your armor procs are up-- this could vary wildy , depending on how many total you have and the circumstances of the fight. Let's say this happens 80% of the time.
- Your healers need to fail. If the target can kill you in 2-3 hits, then you have lots of healers tasked with keeping you alive. But the worst-case-scenario has them all simultaneously failing (and no HoTs or shields, either). This will depend on boss mechanics and raid group, but it's fair to say that you get healed in most scenarios. If you have terrible healers, let's say you don't get heals in that 2-second period 25% of the time (because the fight mechanics might be really, really rough.)
- You don't use cooldowns, potions, healthstones, etc. Given the predictabiity of fights, you can assume that the real "tank gib" scenarios are fairly confined, and so you'll have some sort of cooldown up 75% of the time, so you only see 25% of the bad scenarios with cooldowns not playing a part.

All of a sudden, your worst-case scenario occurs .25 *.8 * .25 * .25 = 1.25% of swings. So measuring your worst-case ignores almost 99% of the fight, which has plenty of "bad case scenarios" where two or three of the above might be enough to kill you, but those situations "don't count."

And that's not even accounting for the boss getting "lucky" on the damage of his swings.

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Old 01/23/10, 6:30 AM   #2619
janaka
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Warrior
 
Die Silberne Hand (EU)
Agreed. In a perfect Rawr, it would take account for your oh shit buttons, query your healers' profiles etc. in all it's calculations. We don't have that yet, and I doubt we'll get it anytime soon.

Okay, let's get away from the concept 'worst case' and just think Effective Health. The Black Heart does not have 7056*uptime/100 armor. It has 7056 when the proc is up, and zero when it's not. When I'm gearing for Festergut, I don't want to rely on the proc being up when his buff has stacked 2 times, not to mention it can only be up 10 seconds of this peroid at most. This is the typical scenario where I want Rawr to simply ignore armor procs.
For Mitigation rating, it absolutely makes sense to just average-out the proc uptime, but Rawr just rates these items way too high for survival-heavy setups.

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Old 01/23/10, 7:05 PM   #2620
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Rawr (v2.3.7 released on 1/18)

Download - Rawr - Release: Rawr 2.3.7

Tour of Rawr Movie! - YouTube - Tour of Rawr

Recent Changes:
v2.3.7.0
- Default Item Filters should now more accurately reflect what most raiders have available to them. A filter was also added which enables the hide/show of green quality gems. Token items which require the prior version (ie: T10 251 -->T10 264) are now correctly filtered.
- Rawr.Enhance: Improvements to accuracy of EnhanceSim Export.
- Rawr.Hunter: Fixed a crash with hunter pet talents.
- Rawr.Moonkin: Idol of Lunar Eclipse should now be properly modeled.
- Rawr.Mage: Cycles with 2T10 should now be more accurate.
- Rawr.ProtPaladin: HotR should do the correct threat/damage now.
- Rawr.Rogue: Murder is now modeled correctly. Glyph of Hunger for Blood is now properly modeled, display of stat values cleaned up. Glyph of Tricks of the Trade is now listed. Rogue T10 set bonuses are now properly modeled.
- Rawr.DPSDK: Moved location of Rotation information to the options pane, rotation calculations smoothed out. Tweeked priority system and disease uptime calculations. Blood Gorged should now properly apply the armor penetration bonus of the talent.
- Rawr.TankDK: Armor in Frost Presence updated, checkbox added to enable/disable Parry Haste.
- Rawr.DPSWarr: Cleaned up calculations for 2T10 this set bonus should properly show as an upgrade when it is one. Fixed a crash with Fury when not equiping a mainhand weapon.

Rawr!

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Old 01/23/10, 8:37 PM   #2621
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Rawr (v2.3.8 released on 1/23)

Download - Rawr - Release: Rawr 2.3.8

Tour of Rawr Movie! - YouTube - Tour of Rawr

Recent Changes:
v2.3.8.0
- Found a crashing bug in v2.3.7, so releasing a fix as v2.3.8 right away, along with a few other changes.
- Rawr.Hunter: Fixed a crashing bug.
- Rawr.Rogue: Fix for cycles that used less than 3 finishers.
- Rawr.DPSDK: Fix for Blood's Glyph of Disease priority.

v2.3.7.0
- Default Item Filters should now more accurately reflect what most raiders have available to them. A filter was also added which enables the hide/show of green quality gems. Token items which require the prior version (ie: T10 251 -->T10 264) are now correctly filtered.
- Rawr.Enhance: Improvements to accuracy of EnhanceSim Export.
- Rawr.Hunter: Fixed a crash with hunter pet talents.
- Rawr.Moonkin: Idol of Lunar Eclipse should now be properly modeled.
- Rawr.Mage: Cycles with 2T10 should now be more accurate.
- Rawr.ProtPaladin: HotR should do the correct threat/damage now.
- Rawr.Rogue: Murder is now modeled correctly. Glyph of Hunger for Blood is now properly modeled, display of stat values cleaned up. Glyph of Tricks of the Trade is now listed. Rogue T10 set bonuses are now properly modeled.
- Rawr.DPSDK: Moved location of Rotation information to the options pane, rotation calculations smoothed out. Tweeked priority system and disease uptime calculations. Blood Gorged should now properly apply the armor penetration bonus of the talent.
- Rawr.TankDK: Armor in Frost Presence updated, checkbox added to enable/disable Parry Haste.
- Rawr.DPSWarr: Cleaned up calculations for 2T10 this set bonus should properly show as an upgrade when it is one. Fixed a crash with Fury when not equiping a mainhand weapon.

Rawr!

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Old 01/24/10, 10:08 AM   #2622
KrmtDfrog
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Scilla
Bryntroll is best in slot for hunter

prooooooooooooooooooobably not.


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Old 01/24/10, 2:52 PM   #2623
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
I believe we modified its proc, and inadvertently made the proc work for Hunters. Sorry.

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Old 01/25/10, 4:50 AM   #2624
fdxpor
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Stormscale (EU)
2.3.8 still showing negative dps values

"might of the ocean serpent" shows about -60 DPS. Yes, i know that cloak puts me above the hit cap but that's no reason to make it that bad...

other gear types also got negative dps gear in the comparission list.

back to 2.3.5, again.

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Old 01/26/10, 8:56 AM   #2625
Thyrial
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Windrunner
Originally Posted by fdxpor View Post
"might of the ocean serpent" shows about -60 DPS. Yes, i know that cloak puts me above the hit cap but that's no reason to make it that bad...

other gear types also got negative dps gear in the comparission list.

back to 2.3.5, again.
I'm having the same issue in the DPSDK module. The items are showing a negative value which makes no sense whatsoever. Even with nothing equipped in the trinket slots it's showing various trinkets actually lowering my DPS. Upon further inspection it appears to be a problem with haste, as items that would only give me haste are lowering my DPS and items with haste as well as other stats/procs (such as the [Herkuml War Token]) are being extremely undervalued. So it appears that haste is being given a negative value for some reason. Now I know it's not an optimal stat by any means for DK but adding haste most certainly does not lower my DPS.

Edit: Just wanted to add that switching from Blood Presence to Unholy Presence raises the value of haste and makes it no longer worth a negative amount, though it's value still appears lower then it should be.

Edit 2: It appears to be a problem with characters that were saved with a previous version of rawr. After reloading my DK from the armory and reconfiguring everything the values are correct.

Edit 3: Well it's showing gear at pretty much the right values now but oddly is valuing any gems with haste on them far higher than they should be. For example it's putting the 16 Haste gem 10 points ahead of the 20 Str gem. Not a big deal overall since most of us know what we should gem for but it makes me question whether or not the gear values are actually accurate.

Last edited by Thyrial : 01/26/10 at 9:36 AM.

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