Being a feral druid far behind in the progression curve, I find myself having to use gear enchanted for tanking in DPS roles. Currently I have three pieces of T4, two of which are enchanted purely for tanking, and I have to decide between which two pieces of them to use for DPS for that fabulous set bonus.

This situation prevents me from effectively using the optimizer. For example, given that I have [Gauntlets of Malorne] agility enchanted, here are the outcomes that I would like the optimizer to evaluate (along with my other gear of course):

alternative 1: [Mantle of Malorne] enchanted for tanking and [Grimgrin Faceguard] enchanted for DPS.
alternative 2: [Bladed Shoulderpads of the Merciless] enchanted for DPS and [Stag-Helm of Malorne] enchanted for tanking.

Items that are not available to me are either [Mantle of Malorne] or [Stag-Helm of Malorne] enchanted for DPS. Essentially there are certain items that require particular enchants, even though other items in the same slot do not share the same requirement.

One suggestion might be to have enchants 'known' to each item just like gems are; just as each item has gem slots, it would have an enchant 'slot'. I realize that this would be a significant change to the interface, but, I can dream. It would also seem more consistent to have gems and enchants treated similarly.

Finally, Astrylian (and other developers), thanks for Rawr. Your dedication is truly appreciated.

Because items are 'complete' without enchants. 99% of the time, when you compare two pieces, you want to compare them as if they had the same enchant. Making enchants item-specific would and an *additional* layer of clutter and complexity, a problem we already have pretty bad with gems in Rawr. The 1% of the time that you do want to make comparisons between different enchants, it's not that hard to just do it.

This is obviously not the case since me, and others, have said that sometimes we need to use our Tier gear for tanking, enchanted with tanking stats.


The same goes for sockets. For example, you take stamina sockets in your Tier6 chest, and still want to see if its worth it for DPS.

Sockets and enchants are the EXACT same thing, except they are applied by two different proffessions (or more, leatherworking leg enchants for example) and often have "restrictions" (no +healing enchant for your chest, no mana regen enchant for leggings etc.). In Rawr its currently possible for me to compare an item with tanking sockets to an item with DPS sockets, while its not possible to compare an item with a tanking enchant to an item with a DPS enchant.

Sockets and enchants should be treated the exact same way because they basically do the same thing. Most items have "enchant sockets" (belt excluded), some items have JC sockets, but in the end their sole purpose is to provide stats or combat ratings depending on the choice of the user.

And in that case, some items do get used for multiple purposes, where a different enchant might be selected than the optimal. I have been in the situation before where i had to compare my Tier4 leggings with [Nethercleft Leg Armor] on to other other DPS leggings with the DPS version on them.


Let me try turning your logic around for a second: Imagine if you instead of sockets had made Jewelcrafting work the exact same way as enchants. In the "enchant" menu, there were 3 extra dropdown menus, one for each socket color, and you would be forced to choose the same gem for every color socket there is (aka. "fill all yellow sockets with gem X, all blue sockets with gem Y") etc. Somehow, it wouldn't have the same feeling of freedom go it, wouldn't you agree? :)

I don't see how making enchants an extra layer would make any clutter or complexity (except from a programming standpoint of course). Its technically just like a persistent meta-gem of its own class on each item, where the "metagem" you can put in depends on which item its on. Some items have 3 sockets, whats so difficult about making it 4?


The choice in the end is yours of course, but saying "99%" is a statistic you made up on the spot. Its obvious the demand to a certain extend in there, and i bet its higher than the 1% you claim. Remember, Rawr was originally designed for Feral Druids, and given that our Tier gear is based around both DPS and tanking, i bet that there has been many druids who wanted to compare their tanking enchanted tier gear to DPS enchanted DPS gear. That only 1% of Feral Druid users should have required that comparison seems unlikely.

Take it to PMs if you want to discuss it further. It's entirely possible to manually do what you want, and it's not hard. The demand for what you're asking for is rather small. It's not worth adding the extra clutter for the 99% of people that don't want it, when more people are complaining about how cluttered it already is.

EDIT: Here's an even simpler way to do it yourself (thanks to Bashui):

1. Select edit on the item you want to make set version for (Mantle of Malorne)
2. Press Duplicate.
3. Change the name to Mantle of Malorne - Tank
4. Change each socket to None and the socket bonus to None.
5. For each gem, add it to the stats. Lets say you have 2 solid stars and a 10 dodge/15 def enchant. Add 24 stamina (49 total), 10 dodge, 15 defense and 3 crit (for the socket bonus).
6. Make sure you leave the gem fields blank.
7. Set the item id to something between 90000-100000 (so update wont revert your changes).

Do the same thing for your kitty setup shoulders. Make sure you have no enchants enabled for the optimizer for that slot. This should do what you are trying to do.

I don't. Your program, your decisions. Its free so i don't have any right to complain and i don't intend to do so. I respect that programming something like this isn't easy, and i understand that sometimes you might want to skip out on ideas or suggestions for the sake of simplicity.

Thanks for taking your time to discuss it though. Good luck with the next beta. Looking forward to it.

Would there be any way to add Large DPI support to Rawr?

Right now some of the numbers are off the screen and cannot be seen when Large DPI is enabled.

Example:

Thanks for hunting it down based on my rather vague description!

(Disclaimer: I'm more of a web app coder these days, but I do that for a living and once upon a time I did some desktop all coding (VB, MS J++, Java Swing/FLTK, etc) so I'm somewhat familiar with the field)

What's the difference between .NET, Mono, Windows.Forms and GTK? I haven't developed with any of them, but what I gather suggests that .NET and Mono are overall application frameworks (with shared libraries for standard tasks), and Windows.Forms and GTK are individual libraries within those frameworks that provide the UI widgets. .NET and Windows.Forms seem to be decidedly Windows-only, while Mono and GTK seem to be the more broadly compatible analogues.

Is that accurate so far? And is there any chance of porting Rawr to the latter? =D

As I said I haven't done any desktop app coding in awhile, but I'd be happy to help if someone can give me an overview of where Rawr's components are and where the Windows.Forms UI calls are in particular.

Pardon me if I might have missed something.

I've been trying to run rawr on OSX. I did as follows:

1. Downloaded Mono for Windows, Rawr and CrossOver
2. Installed Mono on CrossOver
3. Ran Rawr on CrossOver

I get the program to run, but before I can add or do anything in it, it freezes. I get past the first little loading screen, the program starts loading buttons, then suddenly freezes somewhere halfway through.

Any thoughts about this? Or how I could fix it possibly?

Thanks in advance.

Not quite right. .NET Framework is a collection of libraries for Windows. System.Windows.Forms (commonly referred to as WinForms) is the library with all the UI widgets. Mono is a 3rd party port of the .NET Framework to other platforms (Linux, Windows, Unix, OSX via CrossOver, etc). GTK is (I may have this one wrong) the equivalent Mono library to one of the .NET libraries, GDI+, which does handles drawing.

So, ideally, any program written using .NET, should work on other platforms, using Mono. In practice, Mono has some bugs, and isn't 100% complete, so you have to kinda work around some bits of .NET that you're not allowed to use if you want your program to run on Mono. I've tried to remain within the Mono scope of functionality for Rawr.

A user just reported though that they ARE able to run b13.1 on OSX via CrossOver+Mono. It works, though it has a few display bugs, which I may be able to work out, but I'm not sure yet.

EDIT: Guld, I don't really know. I'm going to try it myself tonight or tomorrow night, and will let everyone know how it goes. One user reported that it worked, but was unstable, so he just had to save frequently.

Maybe wine is a step behind Crossover when it comes to Mono, then. I tried installing the Windows version of Mono via wine, and then running Rawr also via wine (thus presumably linking to the Windows Mono), but that didn't work because the fonts couldn't be rendered properly (crashed with a trace I posted a few pages back). I also tried just running Rawr with the native Linux mono (without wine), and that didn't work either, because Windows.Forms apparently isn't in Mono. I might tinker with it some more, but I'm toying with the idea of replacing Windows.Forms with GTK+ (which also does UI widgets) in Rawr and seeing if I can get it running for me that way.