Rawr (v2.3.23 released on 9/12) - Page 31

Kavan · 04/14/08, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by MyrddinE

I found a bug in the Rawr.Mage model. I was fiddling with the model to simulate a TK-Solarian fight (lots of AoE), and all of a sudden it told me that the only stat that mattered was mp5, and that didn't matter much. Turns out the spell cycle it was choosing was 600 seconds of idle time, and 5 water elementals. Odd. The stat I'd been fiddling with was mp5 from our shadow priest... with a little prodding, I determined that at 128mp5, it was fine... at 129mp5, It had me wanding the whole fight.

Obviously some edge condition was triggered. Could you pass this on to the Rawr.Mage TCer to check on?

Here's my Katikk.xml Rawr file. This is with the 128mp5 from shadow priest. Bump that up one point, and you'll see the bug appear.

I found the bug. It is fixed now for next release.

Astrylian · 04/14/08, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by seminarca

Nah, I've seen optimizer give me a set ~40 dps lower than the currently selected one at full thoroughness.

I marked everything I was wearing plus a few extras I had in my bags as available. I had just assumed it was due to T4 piece selection to maintain the 2 piece bonus (I'm using Shoulders and Gloves, it might have come up with 2 alternate albeit lower dps options).

edit: I just tried it again. I currently use S3 helm, T4 shoulders, Nether Shadow Tunic, T4 gloves and Skulker's Greaves for DPS. S3 helm has a Glinting Noble Topaz, but aside from this it's all Delicate Living Ruby (meta requirements are fulfilled in other slots). The set that optimizer came up with is: S3 helm (same gemming), T6 shoulders, T4 chest, T6 gloves and T4 pants (all gemmed with Delicates). It's a 63 dps deficit this time. So it's pretty much due to choosing suboptimal pieces for maintaining the 2T4 set bonus (T4 legs are horrible).

In those 5 slots, items enabled for optimizer to use:
Helms: S3, T4, T6, Grimgrin Faceguard
Shoulders: T4, T5, T6, Razorfury Mantle
Chest: T4, Nether Shadow Tunic
Gloves: T4, T5, T6, Gloves of Dextruous Manipulation
Legs: T4, T5, T6, Skulker's Greaves

edit2: I used the known gemmings only option. I have 2-3 copies of all items, 1 gemmed with Delicate Crimson Spinels in all slots, the other with Solid Empyrean Sapphire in all slots, as well as any different gemmings used by my actual gear.

Please send me your character file, something's not adding up.

• Caniki · 04/15/08, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by seminarca

Nah, I've seen optimizer give me a set ~40 dps lower than the currently selected one at full thoroughness.

I've seen it do some strange things too, most notably putting yellow gems in blue sockets and blue gems in yellow sockets, breaking two socket bonuses instead of getting both. The socket bonus wasn't amazing, but still, seems silly to ignore two when you can get them for free.

Optimizer is cool, but certainly not foolproof.

Maax · 04/15/08, 2:05 AM

Originally Posted by Papajan

A few minor things for Rawr.mage:
...
-Debuffs: Imp Faerie Fire. If you have a Moonkin in the raid, there's a fair chance they're keeping up Imp FF to get those slackers to the hit cap. But if you have such a setup, you could drop some hit gear to do more dps.

Sadly, Imp Faerie Fire only adds melee and ranged +hit, not spell hit (yes it is dumb).

Dustwhisper · 04/15/08, 4:12 AM

Yea optimiser really didn't work for me either, marked all my gear and it came up with a set with a value 300 lower at max optimisation. Seems rather weird.

Baruk · 04/15/08, 4:33 AM

You're sure that you not only marked your gear but also the relevant gems/enchants? That what happened to me on my first shot with the optimizer...

Domner · 04/15/08, 4:33 AM

First of all, as everyone else have said, excellent job on Rawr and I just love playing around with Rawr.mage.

I noticed that in the latest version of Rawr.mage you have included TPS and TPS constraints. However, I do not see Enchant Cloak - Subtlety included as a possible cloak enchant even though it should have an impact on the TPS simulation. So would Enchant Gloves - Threat as well but obviously that is an unlikely choice for any mage.

Dustwhisper · 04/15/08, 4:44 AM

Originally Posted by Baruk

You're sure that you not only marked your gear but also the relevant gems/enchants? That what happened to me on my first shot with the optimizer...

I marked all versions of each gear and also set optimizer at max to regem everything.

Kavan · 04/15/08, 4:46 AM

Originally Posted by Dustwhisper

I marked all versions of each gear and also set optimizer at max to regem everything.

You have to separately mark the gems and enchants as available, not just gear.

Ivorthemage · 04/15/08, 10:24 AM

Hmm, in the gear simulations I have run for arcane/frost, with a wide variety of gear (T5 level, T6 level, and optimized), I have yet to see Int gems do better dps than +12 spell damage gems.

I have seen them be the best gems to get a yellow slot bonus, but not better dps than a runed crimson spinel if slot color doesn't matter.

Anyone have a toon have seen where Int gems actually give better dps than a spinel?

Or is it a fight length constraint? I will admit that I haven't played with Rawr much modelling 10 minute fights.

Cluey · 04/15/08, 11:51 AM

Thanks again for all the time you have put into this Astrylian.
I have been using the new b13.1 version and noticed that one of the Bear buffs we can select is Mage Armor, While I would like those bonus resists our mages claim they can't cast it on me.

I have a request for the Cat model, in the list of items for the slot we are looking at instead of the, mostly meaningless, kitty points could you list +/-DPS instead or as well as?

Astrylian · 04/15/08, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Cluey

Thanks again for all the time you have put into this Astrylian.
I have been using the new b13.1 version and noticed that one of the Bear buffs we can select is Mage Armor, While I would like those bonus resists our mages claim they can't cast it on me.

I have a request for the Cat model, in the list of items for the slot we are looking at instead of the, mostly meaningless, kitty points could you list +/-DPS instead or as well as?

Yeah, Mage Armor... Kavan, can you switch that to MageResistAll or something, so other classes don't see that buff?

The Cat Model is already in terms of DPS, not kitty points. It has been since b13.

EDIT: Ivor, look at Kavan. Also, remember that int will never be as good for you as it is for the Gnomes, since they get an extra 5.5% int.

Cluey · 04/15/08, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Yeah, Mage Armor... Kavan, can you switch that to MageResistAll or something, so other classes don't see that buff?

The Cat Model is already in terms of DPS, not kitty points. It has been since b13.

EDIT: Ivor, look at Kavan. Also, remember that int will never be as good for you as it is for the Gnomes, since they get an extra 5.5% int.

I see now that it is but not a +/- so I will have to do the maths in my head.
I meant to ask for this a while ago and have been using the bear model more recently.

Papajan · 04/15/08, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Maax

Sadly, Imp Faerie Fire only adds melee and ranged +hit, not spell hit (yes it is dumb).

My mistake, a moonkin told me and I didn't think to validate it for myself.

MyrddinE · 04/15/08, 5:07 PM

Is there a way to eliminate all the T6 gems from the item database? I deleted the gems themselves from the database, but the database repopulates because there's hundreds of individual items socketed with them... removing hundreds of items manually sounds pretty damn tedious.

Alternately, could I remove all gems from all equipment, and then have the game make several 'likely gemmings' for the equipment based on my needs? A set of gems that ignore socket color and a set that gets the socket bonus, using the highest-rated gems that fit (and are available)? It's just tedious re-gemming equipment over and over using only gems that I am likely to get.

Edit: Also, removal of identical items (same item, same gems) would also be nice.