This is a bug cuased by an error in the Armory that Rawr b14.1 doesn't expect. It's pretty easy to fix though, see Rawr - View Issue

I'm curious why there's such a discrepancy between how well-rated T4 is in Rawr verses, say, this feral gear list list. Because I ran this for my sister-in-law's druid (Inarah of Lightbringer), and it ranked T4 as the top upgrade for her in many slots. Often times over even T6, as I recall.

If you have one piece, or none in your dps set. Getting the 2set t4 makes those items better then any in-game.y

The 2T4 set bonus is extremely valuable for Cats, RobertM, so if you're in the Cat model, and have 1 T4 equipped, you'll notice that other pieces of T4 jump way up in value, correctly. Also, you're comparing Rawr to Emmerald's lists... They're not meant to be compared; Emmerald's is a good ballpark number for people don't want to do any theorycrafting. Rawr will always give more accurate results than Emmerald's, because Rawr knows what character/situation you're in, Emmerald's doesn't. They're not competitors, so to speak.

Hey Astrylian!
Since [Shard of Contempt] was introduced, the best pair of trinkets for me was [Shard of Contempt] and [Dragonspine Trophy]. I already have a hit cap and 3.7% avoided attacks, but now it shows, that even [Tsunami Talisman] looks better for my Cat DPS than [Shard of Contempt] (I recently replaced [Item not found!] with [Trousers of the Scryers' Retainer]). What would you recommend?
Thanks.

Edit: I got it) I marked procs of Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve, which I dont have in my DPS gear. But will you introduce Aldor's procs of the Shattered Sun necklace in Rawr? Thanks.

That should already be in there, I think (not at home now...)? - just select the correct faction in the options tab.

I'm part way through BT (7/9) and doing gear evaluation in rawr I keep getting some responses the rogues in my guild tell me are wrong. Basically, at this point, I'm not hit capped. And RAWR is consistently suggesting gear and gems that are high agi over gear that gives me more hit. To the point that when S4 comes out, if I believe RAWR and gear as it suggests, I'll be down to 89 hit rating.

The conventional wisdom was to hit cap, then worry about other dps stats. RAWR seems to be suggesting the opposite.

Is this a model failure? Is this just a truth of (relatively) high end feral, where agi is scaling so well? Is Rawr not taking in to account the 'on hit non ppm' procs (like 2T4 and Omen of Clarity) getting less procs from fewer hits and the energy loss from missing a finishing move?


For comparison, looking at gems with the current gear, relative values:
6.39 Delicate Spinel
5.80 Glinting Pyrestone
4.65 Rigid Lionseye

For comparison, looking at gems with the RAWR ideal gear, relative values:
7.13 Delicate Spinel
5.32 Glinting Pyrestone
4.78 Rigid Lionseye


Current gear: (127 hit)
Chest Nether Shadow Tunic
Feet Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots
Wrist Vindicator's Dragonhide Bracers

RAWR ideal gear: (89 hit)
Chest Brutal Gladiator's Dragonhide Tunic (PTR)
Feet Shadowmaster's Boots
Wrist Guardian's Dragonhide Bracers (PTR)


Common gear between the two sets:
Head Vengeful Gladiator's Dragonhide Helm
Neck Shattered Sun Pendant of Might
Shoulders Mantle of Malorne
Waist Don Alejandro's Money Belt
Legs Trousers of the Scryers' Retainer
Hands Gauntlets of Malorne
Finger1 Angelista's Revenge
Finger2 Signet of Primal Wrath
Trinket1 Shard of Contempt
Trinket2 Hourglass of the Unraveller
Back Cloak of Fiends
MainHand Staff of the Forest Lord

If you read fully through this thread you'll see it is both true and false. The problem is that theorycrafting does not accurately measure true fight mechanics or human error. It assumes a straight tank-and-spank fight with no interrupts and perfect cycles. In practice, many fights require you running around or other cycle interruption. Additionally a miss/dodge can drastically affect cycles.

I've actually been struggling to find out exactly what the value is of getting both hit/expertise capped. It seems to be somewhere around a theoretical straight 40 dps loss.

Care to share your math on that? Other than using agi/hit gems in yellow sockets with good socket bonuses, I can't see gemming for hit being a dps boost. We do get a very significant chunk of hit just naturally on our best gear, and specifically trying to get more than that (AND getting exp capped, which can prove very difficult to maintain across all tiers, without significant DPS losses) seems to be a dps loss, by all theorycraft I've seen.

Well, if hard numbers could easily be assigned to it they would be.

Missing a mangle after a rip means one less tick with debuff applied. Not noticing you missed that mangle and spamming a shred will mean that the shred does not have the debuff applied as well as possibly another rip tick or two. Missing an attack and spamming a powershift without noticing will be an energy loss instead of gain. Missing an attack just before running away due to a fight mechanic means you are missing out on damage. If you miss an attack near full energy and the next tick clips 100 you're losing damage. None of these situations are considered in most models I know of.

Sorry, I meant reading through the Feral Druid Megathread in my previous post. I thought we were in that thread.

I'm pretty sure Toskk's model did not include this and thought that's what Rawr.Cat was based on.

The difference between say [Brooch of Deftness] and [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] is somewhere around 14 dps for me. Over a 5 minute fight that's 4200 damage. The difference between a mangled and unmangled shred would be in the range of 7-800 damage. Missing mangle on one tick of Rip is around 200 damage. I'm not really sure how often these types of events occur, but they do happen. Druids with less experience or lesser gear could experience it even more often. I'm not sure how to model these things atm, which is why I don't currently either. However, it's clear there is some additional value to hit/expertise beyond what is calculated as a theoretical max.

You could go as far as saying that if you are hit/expertise capped then you don't have to pay attention to if you get a hit/miss. That could mean you don't miss something else that happened in the environment. That could be a player skill issue also, but it shouldn't be ignored.