Rawr (v2.3.23 released on 9/12) - Page 60

Stapedius · 12/07/08, 6:55 AM

I posted some strange behavior of the Moonkin model regarding the value of haste and crit rating in one of the moonkin threads. Regardless of what I do the potent gems are valued higher than the reckless ones leading me to believe that crit rating is valued higher than haste. This is not what for example WrathCalcs is telling me.

Moonkins at 80

Malakov · 12/07/08, 8:23 PM

I may not have looked around the program enough, but is there a way to change the stat weights? I find the program is weighing stats more heavily than some of them should be (ex. Int and Spirit vs Damage and Hit). Help would be appreciated.

Astrylian · 12/07/08, 9:02 PM

Rawr doesn't use stat weights. It accurately rates items based on the impact they actually have on your character. Guessing that you're using the made model, int and spr are worth more than dmg and hit typically when you go OOM. Ensure that you have buffs checked, and fight parameters set how you want. Use the Sequence Reconstruction graph to see when you'll go OOM.

dlanod · 12/07/08, 10:30 PM

I have one main question around the Hunter plugin... I've been playing around with both Rawr and the spreadsheet and have noticed some pretty significant differences between the two when I import my current gear from the Armory into each. e.g. Rawr ranks Eaglebane Bracers significantly higher than Interwoven Scale Bracers while the spreadsheet has the epic slightly higher. Another example is that Boots of the Neverending Path is ranked above Boots of Captain Ellis, and a very very long way above Boots of Twinkling Stars and Boots of the Terrestial Guardian in Rawr while the spreadsheet has them below all those three (amongst others). That's a pretty significant difference.

Are these differences to be expected due to a difference in approach? They could be quite significant in terms of gearing up obviously.

Astrylian · 12/08/08, 12:58 AM

Yes, the approach is different, and we're working on making the model match the spreadsheet more.

dlanod · 12/08/08, 1:11 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Yes, the approach is different, and we're working on making the model match the spreadsheet more.

Thanks. You even answered my unasked question as to which one I should follow when they disagree.

Edit: Well I think I figured out the boots issue anyway. The spreadsheet only counts any +hit that'll take me to the hit cap, and since those have such a huge +hit bonus it'll put me at least 1% over the hit cap. This means that about half the +hit doesn't get counted as a useful stat, dropping it significantly down the list on the spreadsheet but not in Rawr.

Petersen · 12/08/08, 7:14 AM

I've a question regarding the stat graph; would it be possible to allow the colours used to represent the different statistic to be user-defined? Some of the colours (in particular agility and crit) are hard to distinguish from one another.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that (at least in the DK model) the 'mob level' is 70, 71, 72, and 73, with no option for 83 (though this may be simple failure to rename the variable, it could be confusing for new users). Additionally the armor box only accepts a maximum value of 10,000 when the apparent armor for bosses in Wrath is 13,083. ( Wrath boss armor testing )

EDIT 2: Something seems amiss with the DK model, it's rating blood *FAR* above unholy, not just 100-200 DPS better, more like 2000 DPS better.

Unbuffed, using my gear (armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory ) (Please don't make fun of my gear, I'm using this as an example of convenience, my first noticing of the disparity was playing around with figuring out 'best-in-slot')

with this unholy build: WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator

and this blood build:
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator

Blood rates at 4780 DPS, while Unholy a paltry 2650.

I have a hard time believing this is the actual difference between them, so what's going on that makes blood seem 180% as good as blood?

EDIT 3: One more thing, Chaotic Skyflare Diamond does not seem to be granting the 3% increased Critical damage to DKs (but it does seem to do it for Ret Paladins). The Item Editor seems to say it is, but it rates no higher than any of the other 21 Crit Strike metas.

thedopefishlives · 12/08/08, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Stapedius

I posted some strange behavior of the Moonkin model regarding the value of haste and crit rating in one of the moonkin threads. Regardless of what I do the potent gems are valued higher than the reckless ones leading me to believe that crit rating is valued higher than haste. This is not what for example WrathCalcs is telling me.

Moonkins at 80

It's probably due to a bug that was just fixed, but has not been released yet. See my reply in the thread you linked.

Astrylian · 12/08/08, 12:37 PM

There were quite a few problems with the DK DPS model (it's brand new, and the theorycraft to support it is brand new, we're working all the kinks out). Zurm's actively working on updates to the DK DPS model.

P.S. Just got home from vacation, will be trying to catch up on all the discussion threads, e-mails, bug reports, etc, from the weekend, all day today.

Petersen · 12/08/08, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

There were quite a few problems with the DK DPS model (it's brand new, and the theorycraft to support it is brand new, we're working all the kinks out). Zurm's actively working on updates to the DK DPS model.

P.S. Just got home from vacation, will be trying to catch up on all the discussion threads, e-mails, bug reports, etc, from the weekend, all day today.

I figured it had to do with the newness; just trying to help with bug detection. Great utility you've made, I feel somewhat lost without it.

♦ nathanbp · 12/08/08, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by Kinmaul

I'm Horde so there definately was no Draenei present

. I have spend over an hour at the Heroic Training Dummy and after ~2100 swings with no hit gear (and max weapon skill) my miss was at 5.2%. Granted even 2100 swings isn't a large enough sample to conclusively state a new hit cap it is enough evidence to debunk the idea that the hit cap is 9%. As soon as I can get more quality gear with less hit I will continue to lower my hit until misses start to show up in my combat log. I'm guessing the mark will be either 5 or 6% for Ret paladins with my inclination that it will be 5%. My reasoning (which is an educated guess) is that the hit cap has indeed been lowered to 8% and (some? all?) Ret paladins are bugged with the 3% hit from the removed Precision talent.

Perhaps a hit cap slider with a warning would be the best possible solution for now? Because right now I can assure you that your Ret model is giving inaccurate ratings to gear because of an incorrect hit cap.

Edit:
Also please take all of this in the spirit of constructive criticism. I absolutely love your program and the fact that I cannot rely on it is killing me. I'm simply trying to come up with a short term solution until someone can come up with conclusive data on a new hit cap.

Edited again because of terrible spelling.

For the short term, if you want to play with the hit cap in Rawr, you could go into the Data directory in your Rawr install, open BuffCache.xml in Notepad, and modify the value of Heroic Presence (the Dreanei racial) to add whatever amount of extra hit you would like. Then start Rawr and check Heroic Presence under buffs and Rawr will treat it like you have that much more hit than you actually do. If Rawr doesn't let you check Heroic Presence on the Horde side you might have to create your own custom buff instead.

Mijae · 12/08/08, 5:50 PM

It looks like the Austere Earthsiege Diamond does not have it's armor multiplier implemented. If I change to the Relentless meta, the armor actually goes up (just from the agility).

Astrylian · 12/08/08, 6:02 PM

Pretty sure it works, unless I broke it recently? Sure you meet the meta requirements of both?

Mijae · 12/08/08, 6:07 PM

I definitely have the meta requirements met for both. Even if I turn off enforcement I get the same result. Note, there's no text on the Austere meta identifying any additional benefit either.

Astrylian · 12/08/08, 6:38 PM

Ah, yeah, that's the problem; either the Wowhead or Armory parsing for it is broken, not sure which. Try both, see if one of them makes the 2% armor stat show up. If neither do, you can just edit the item and add 0.02 BonusArmorMultiplier.

halmmar · 12/09/08, 2:29 AM

Nope, it's not wowhead/armory that's broken.
The gem shows the armor increase if you mouse over it in the item editor. If you mouse over your headgear in the bear model, it does not.

Also, if you check the metagem values, austere is ranked a lot higher than relentless.

Valerys · 12/09/08, 4:25 AM

Wowhead parsing does seem to be broken - I've reloaded items from Wowhead and they lost several stats in the process. Reloading them from armory fixed them.

Also, would it be possible to save your glyph choices along with your character? It's annoying to have to click them on every time.

Mijae · 12/09/08, 4:42 AM

It did work. I needed to first reload the meta gem itself and make sure it has the bonus text listed. Then, every helm with the meta needed to be reloaded also.

Kinmaul · 12/09/08, 6:52 AM

Originally Posted by nathanbp

For the short term, if you want to play with the hit cap in Rawr, you could go into the Data directory in your Rawr install, open BuffCache.xml in Notepad, and modify the value of Heroic Presence (the Dreanei racial) to add whatever amount of extra hit you would like. Then start Rawr and check Heroic Presence under buffs and Rawr will treat it like you have that much more hit than you actually do. If Rawr doesn't let you check Heroic Presence on the Horde side you might have to create your own custom buff instead.

Amazing idea and it does allow it even if your character is hordeside. Kudos!

Edit:
Actually it takes just a bit more work than that. If you simply edit the file so that Heroic Presence to 3% the program automatically defaults it back to 1% when you load it. Here is how you change it:

Current code:

<Buff>
    <Name>Heroic Presence</Name>
    <Group>Racial Buffs</Group>
    <Stats>
      <SpellHit>0.01</SpellHit>
      <PhysicalHit>0.01</PhysicalHit>
    </Stats>
    <SetThreshold>0</SetThreshold>
    <Improvements />
    <IsCustom>false</IsCustom>
    <ConflictingBuffs>
      <string>Racial Buffs</string>
    </ConflictingBuffs>

Change the bolded areas to these new values:

<Buff>
    <Name>Heroic Presence</Name>
    <Group>Racial Buffs</Group>
    <Stats>
      <SpellHit>0.01</SpellHit>
      <PhysicalHit>0.03</PhysicalHit>
    </Stats>
    <SetThreshold>0</SetThreshold>
    <Improvements />
    <IsCustom>true</IsCustom>
    <ConflictingBuffs>
      <string>Racial Buffs</string>
    </ConflictingBuffs>

This tells the program it is a custom buff and it will correctly figure out in the 3% "ghost hit" that a lot of ret paladins are seeing. If you don't change the false to true it will not work. If you want to take into account the possibility of the hit cap being changed to 8% then change 0.03 to 0.04.

DISCLAIMER: Play with these files at your own risk!

gouldukat · 12/09/08, 7:31 AM

Rawr already got the calculation for the diminishing returns in the Paladin tank model ?

Exewut · 12/09/08, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by gouldukat

Rawr already got the calculation for the diminishing returns in the Paladin tank model ?

The tankadin model seems to have a few problems.
- Agility enchants aren't giving any dodge at all. They do give armor though.
- I have about 500 hp missing
- The dodge on my character is ~3% lower than it is ingame, with the bosslevel set at 80. (possibly from the 26/16/20 extra agility from enchants I have?)

Calgar · 12/09/08, 10:34 AM

Maybe this is just a case of not looking hard enough, but I'm playing with the DPS DK module, and, well, it seems to be showing paladin Teir 7 instead of Death Knight. Am I losing it or is this a known bug or something?

Astrylian · 12/09/08, 1:03 PM

Rawr.Tankadin does count diminishing returns, but as noted by Exewut, has a few problems with base stats that we're still trying to work out.

Rawr.DPSDK has several problems, including showing Paladin tier items instead of DK items, which we'll be fixing soon, along with many other bugs.

Mijae · 12/09/08, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by Exewut

- I have about 500 hp missing

Mining?

Exewut · 12/09/08, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mijae

Mining?

I feel so stupid right now, this is indeed the case.