Well, that's the thing, everything is subjective. If I was an expert, I wouldn't need Rawr to tell me which item is better than the other. But since I'm here, that's what I need to find out. What are the reasonable settings for people who are just looking for "overall" value and who don't know how much of everything they need, beside the basics?

Err, we can't tell you that, that's specific to your raid group. You've got a threat meter, right? Are DPS riding your threat? If so, you need more threat (ie, put a higher value on threat). If you're way ahead of your DPSers, then you probably don't need much more threat, so you can lower its value.

Most of the Pally tanks I know that use Rawr just set the threat value to 0. In current content at least, threat is a non issue for pallys in almost any gear set.

You realise that the downloaded item case includes PTR gear right?

Yeah. Rawr v2.2 will be for modeling WoW 3.1. Most models are somewhere in-between 3.0 and 3.1 PTR in what they're modeling, but full 3.1 support is what's intended for Rawr v2.2 release. So, I've added the available PTR data to the default item cache for the v2.2 betas.

If you need WoW 3.0 calculations, stick to the latest release version of Rawr, v2.1.9. I realize that some models have seen significant improvements to their 3.0 calculations since then (especially Warlock), though. In those cases, one of the earlier v2.2 betas may be better at modeling 3.0, but I'm not sure offhand.

As of 2.2 b5, Rawr.Bear is showing a level 83 mob as having the same chance to parry as a level 80 mob.

I suspect other people have done more in depth testing, but I tested against a level 80 target dummy on my 68 paladin first with 22 expertise (5.5%), then with 24 expertise (6%) (link). I got a parry during the first test, then made over 900 hits without a parry or dodge during the second test. I know that expertise will give smaller increments of parry/dodge reduction than the tooltip shows, but I'm not sure exactly what the rating conversion is at 68, and I don't have the gear to get closer to 6% in either direction anyway.

I also tested against a level 80 dummy on my 80 druid with 72 expertise rating (~4.7% with Primal Precision) and 89 expertise rating (5.2%) (link). Again, parry in the first test, then none in the second one.

Seems like the parry chance for an 82 mob is 6%, 81 would be 5.5%, and 80 is 5%.

Someone asked about this a few pages back but I didn't see any response.

Could all the epic gems possibly be deleted until they are actually on the test realm several months from now? It's a huge hassle having to scroll through them/skip over them/delete them and I can't see that they help anyone out in any way.

Hi, i'm a fresh poster here and used a lot Rawr bak in the old days when I was playing a tanking drood !!

i'm now pretty excited with the new warlock module I tested thanks to the 2.2b. But, I feel I do not set things well regarding as casting priority and that some other stuffs need a bit of tweaking because few results given bay the module are ununderstable by me.

Is there a place where this can be discussed ? I've read pretty much this whole thread and didn't find any related post (blame me if i'm blind !).

Thanks for this great work !

Seconded, epic gems are really not helping anyone in any way right now.

Everyone asking about epic gems might want to check out the latest beta of Rawr v2.2. The gemming system is completely redone.

Mirtyl, most warlock-related discussion happens on our website, Rawr - Home, in the Discussions threads. Feel free to start a new thread there with your concerns, if you don't find them already answered.

Thanks !

Ah, that'll be covered by filters in a future beta. I expect we'll have "Uncommon Gems", "Rare Gems", "Epic Gems (not in game yet)", "Stormjewels", and "Jeweler's Gems" filters, with the epic ones being off by default.

Hey Astryl there's a bunch of items left in that cache from (I presume) beta. They've got names like "Naxx25MeleeChest" can those be stripped out of your release?

Should I post bugs related to the Tankadin module or should I wait for a new beta with the new ProtPaladin one? The 5% BV meta is giving me around 3.9% BV increase instead, but I'm not sure if that's a common issue or module specific.

Can't hurt to post them. We'll look into that.

One suggestion for a small feature I find myself missing, for hit and expertise ratings, could you make the tooltip show how much hit or expertise rating you're over the cap? It's easy enough to calculate, but comes in handy when experimenting with some raid buffs like the draenai aura, SP's spell hit etc

Help menu needs an "about rawr" option to show the version, build, etc.
It's a standard thing all application have, I'm kind of missing it.


Rawr version: v2.2.0b5


Bugs found

Stats model: cat
Sort: Overall
Chart: rotation DPS
Is showing bear moves : lacerate + maul
If i switch the stats "model" from cat to bear, all the bars will show green and with values.
Switching the stats "model" back to cat will hide the green bars, but keep all the values and rotation dps exactly the same.


In game vs Rawr displayed stats.
The World of Warcraft Armory
Looking at the Displayed stats in rawr, vs the ones in game there seems to be a huge difference to some values.
I've double checked the gear, and they should be set up correctly.
The Crit% in game is about 4.55% higher, while the crit rating does show as equal.
Attack power in rawr is displaying about 300 higher in rawr.
Agility in rawr is showing about 21 higher.
Strength is rawr is 2 higher than ingame.
I'm assuming this is because rawr is already using the 3.1 values?


Another note, I see the views you are using are causing a lot of mirroring effects.
Make sure you enable offscreen (gworld) drawing to counteract that. It'll make scrolling much smoother than it is now.
As it seems you're drawing the table on the fly currently.


Load from armory.
Would be nice if this dialog remembered the last used Realm / Region / Character.


Missing icons:
* Calamity's grasp weapon, has no icon.
* Webbed death, has no icon.
* Spinning fate, has no icon.
* Choker of Forceful redemption, has no icon.
Talent: Nature's majesty, has no icon.
Talent: Murder spree, has no icon.
Talent: Dirty tricks, has no icon.


The World of Warcraft Armory
Rogue model. Talents.
Text: "Assassination" is too wide or improperly centered.

Rogue model, missing item: "Fury of the five flights" in the comparisons list.
Rogue model does not recognize "combat spec" and will suggest daggers as an upgrade over fists or swords...
Rogue model does not recognize the weapon expertise talent, and will report expertise rating to be X under the cap.

Thanks for the feedback.

About screen is on my list of things to do, but very low priority due to the version info being in the menu bar already.

Yes, 3.1 stat values are used. Stats will be off by ~2 or so, due to rounding inconsistencies. Also, they include some stats which don't show up on your character screen (some procs are averaged out, some buffs such as crit chance debuffs, etc). Are any of those significant discrepancies that you see not explained by that?

Can you clarify your comment about 'offscreen (gworld) drawing'? That doesn't sound like a Rawr issue.

Load from Armory saving previous values is on our list of things to do... I think we may get to that one soonish.

I'll look into the icons, but that sounds odd; Rawr isn't "missing" any item icons, it just uses the Armory's icons. It's odd that the Armory wouldn't have icons for those, but I'll look into it.

All the rogue issues can be explained easily: There is no Rogue model.

Odd, that still wouldn't explain why I'm seeing 4+% more crit and 400+ attack power though.
Guess we'll see when 3.1 actually hits whether it's more accurate.



Offscreen drawing is an engineering term, Rawr doesn't seem to use it.

Basically it's like this.
The entire table is kept in memory from top to bottom, and would be 700 pixels high.
The user has a limited "view" of this table, which could be 500 pixels high.
Rather than only draw those 500 pixels whenever they're visible, the table would have the entire 700 pixels available in memory to draw and scroll trough. Thus making scrolling much smoother than it is now.

You could compare it to scrolling up and down in Firefox / IE here on the EJ forums. You'll notice there's no text ghosting or white being drawn while the scrolling takes place. I can't really give much of a better example, as I'm not sure what language Rawr is written in. It's not so much a rawr issue as it is an issue in the way rawr uses whatever windows or .net implementation you're using to draw the tables / scrollviews.


How far along is the documentation? In case I wanted to have a look at the rogue module?

If you have some items which proc crit or AP (badge trinket comes to mind), it won't affect your stats in-game, but the proc would be averaged out in your stats in rawr.

I'm having an odd problem with the Beta Rawr all of a sudden. It seems that when I load up the program, I get the load screen and then normally after the program itself would be displayed and I could play with it as usual. Now after the load screen it appears as if minimized (the program is on my bottom bar) but I cannot get the program to display at all.

I have done some things on my computer recently in updating a few drivers, downloading a program or two, etc, but are there any known issues of something perhaps keeping Rawr from showing up? The old Rawr 2.1.9 still works perfectly but the Beta one refuses to display at all.

Have you checked to see if Rawr just wandered off your screen somehow? Hit Alt+Space, M, an arrow key, then move the mouse around a bit. It might come back attached to your pointer.