Rawr (v2.3.23 released on 9/12) - Page 98

spartakos · 12/05/08, 5:55 AM

There is a bug in 2.1.3 moonkin module when i have 5/5 t7 and change any tier except the head i lose the 4/5 t7 set bonus although i still have 4 pieces.

thedopefishlives · 12/05/08, 9:31 AM

Originally Posted by spartakos

There is a bug in 2.1.3 moonkin module when i have 5/5 t7 and change any tier except the head i lose the 4/5 t7 set bonus although i still have 4 pieces.

That means one of your 5 pieces isn't marked with the correct set. Make sure all 5 pieces have the T7 set name marked in them.

[edit] Since the head is the one that's different, obviously the head is the one with the incorrect set name on it. Double-check your head.

Ugljesa · 12/05/08, 9:50 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

That would make the 3 enchants provide, in optimal Naxx25 gear, about... Massacre=59, Mongoose=60, Berserking=76. Again, those are really rough numbers, based on rumors and here-say, so take them for what you will.

Ok, gonna feel like an utter noob for saying this, but not sure in what measures you're talking about *blush* (+DPS?)... but nvm that, can still see a<b<c and I'm actually hugely surprised Mongoose is better than Massacre (if even slightly). Which is why I was thinking along the lines of "well Massacre already costs a fortune, might as well spend some extra on Berserking". Ah well, cheers for the info, can't wait for both of them to be properly introduced though

Carnivean · 12/05/08, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Nisall

I keep hearing about people using a stat scale from rawr to plug into pawn/lootrank, but I can't seem to find the option which shows the stat scale. I do see a Stat graph, but I doubt others manage to exact from that.

If anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great

As already stated mulitple times in this thread, if not even on this or the previious page:
Chart --> Custom--> Item Budget should be, what you are looking for.

Altirias · 12/05/08, 11:24 AM

Is there any plan to add support for blacksmithing gem slots for belts, bracers and gloves ?

It doesn't feel right to edit every item to add a prismatic gem slot (and I'm not sure it is even supported), and you can't really cheet it since only one enchant per item is available.

Astrylian · 12/05/08, 12:47 PM

Yes, support for BS gem slots is coming.

Not every model has a Relative Stat Values (or similar) chart; I know Tankadin and Healadin don't. It's been up to models to handle this individually so far, but we may be standardizing this as a core feature of Rawr in 2.2.

manly · 12/05/08, 1:56 PM

A few notes.

[stuff about the 3 sockets from blacksmithing]
[...]

3- A slight bug, no idea if its a display bug, or an actual bug. The socket bonus on this belt is not activated. I am using a [Plush Sash of Guzbah] with a [Item not found!] and a [Item not found!] on the extra socket from [Eternal Belt Buckle]. The socket bonus is shown in grey, leading me to believe it isn't activated even though it should be.

Astrylian · 12/05/08, 2:17 PM

It's because it was loaded from the armory with the extra gem; it's confused about there being 2 gems in an item with 1 socket. Right click the item, hit Edit, and change the 2nd socket from None to Red, for now, until we implement BS sockets.

Drashian · 12/05/08, 3:59 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Do you think there needs to be a hard cap? I was thinking of just a soft cap, and it declining in value continuously after that. The difference between 60k and 61k health is really really minuscule, but it's not 0, after all.

That'd be the easiest to understand/configure for most users, I think too. Just a slider where they can set what 'enough' seems to be for them, for the content they're doing, with their healers. I figure the default will be... 140k Survivability. Does that sound right? That would be 35,000 health, 41,939 armor. Or 39,691 health, 35,000 armor. Or somewhere in-between.

The 140k default sounds good, I was thinking about the same.

Hard cap vs soft cap, I'm torn. Having a setting for the beginning of diminishing returns on survivability and one for where they reach zero would allow the user the best range of customization for their particular target encounter and raid group. Unfortunately it'd also be a fairly "advanced" setting in terms of the amount of understanding required to pick a reasonable value, something which the bear model has so far avoided. Tooltips and sets of defaults for both settings would definitely help, though, something like (actual numbers are made up):

Survivability Cap* "This is the total amount of Survivability (health pool and damage reduction) required to survive the most rapid series of attacks a boss can possibly land. After this point, additional Survivability has little or no value."
No Limit
120,000 - Heroic Dungeons
140,000 - Tier 7 Raids
160,000 - Tier 8 Raids
Other

Survivability Margin* "This is the amount of additional Survivability that will still have some reduced amount of usefulness, for example in rare situations where the healers may be distracted or disabled. Survivability in this range will still yield some value, but it the value gained will diminish toward zero as it gets closer to this limit."
+0 - Inhuman Healers
+10,000 - Fast Healers
+20,000 - Normal Healers

So for example, someone intending to run heroics from the LFG channel would be pointed toward gear that got them up to 120,000 survivability, and continue to value stamina to some extent up to 140,000.

Astrylian · 12/05/08, 4:13 PM

My concern with having a hard cap is that Rawr compares things all the time, and gets things wrong if things that aren't really equal are rated as equal. For example, suppose you have a hard cap set, and you're over the cap. Survivability is absolutely 0. Suddenly, things that aren't really equal, are rated as equal, like 10stam vs 20stam. Or there's an item with a Red and a Blue socket, with a 6sta socket bonus, and you need a blue gem for your meta anyway. Perfect, you'd use a Delicate and a Shifting, right? The Optimizer is going to put the Delicate in the blue socket and the Shifting in the red socket half the time, because it doesn't matter, they both end up with exactly the same rating, so it can't tell the difference. Instead, if there's a minuscule value of Stam, it can tell that gemming it incorrectly gives you 250,000 overall rating, and gemming it correctly gives you 250,000.1 rating, and make the right choice.

Basically, it's fine if the difference is insignificant, as long as there is a difference.

All that said, we could still have a hard cap by making any survivability over the cap provide 0.0001% of normal value or something.

But I'd argue that there's still some value even way over how much you need to survive; more HP does mean bigger iLotP heals, for example (not that Rawr does, or will, model that).

Drashian · 12/05/08, 4:35 PM

Ah right, I can see why the optimizer would misbehave if Stamina came out to absolutely zero value. And 6 stamina is always better than 5 stamina when you don't have to give anything up for it. It could probably be implemented as just a soft cap then, with a pretty low multiplier after that. Somewhere in the range of a 1%-2% multiplier would be reasonable, I'd take 50 stamina in exchange for 1 agility even if I had enough.

kalbear · 12/05/08, 4:53 PM

Astrylian, that sounds reasonable to me; being able to give a small weight to it is fine, so long as that the vast majority of the time it does the right thing when gauging gear.

Modus Infinity · 12/05/08, 7:55 PM

Is there a way to filter items to 5man non-herioc instances, quest rewards and rep rewards?
I'm trying to get a decent set of gear together pre-heroics/raiding, without having to look down lists of hundreds of items that are out of my reach (for the moment).

Erdluf · 12/05/08, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

My concern with having a hard cap is that Rawr compares things all the time, and gets things wrong if things that aren't really equal are rated as equal.

Exponential decay is a good way to say "more of a stat is always better" but you still have a limit you will never reach:

Value(stat) = Max_Value * (1 - exp(-stat / scale) )

gives

Value(0) = 0
Value(scale) is about 0.6 * Max_Value
Value(Infinity) = Max_Value

So "scale" is sort of a half-life. More stat is always better (at least until the subtraction becomes meaningless to double precision), but increasing the stat by a small amount is only really valuable up to numbers in the neighborhood of "scale".

Malan · 12/05/08, 9:56 PM

Originally Posted by Modus Infinity

Is there a way to filter items to 5man non-herioc instances, quest rewards and rep rewards?
I'm trying to get a decent set of gear together pre-heroics/raiding, without having to look down lists of hundreds of items that are out of my reach (for the moment).

If you go back 1-2 pages Astrylian posted some filters. They don't work 100% though and I think the blame lies with WoWhead's location data. A lot of the items have things like "Drops from Gluth in Unknown" or "Heroic Naxxramaxx" which of course breaks the filters. And then if you just say "oh well add all the Unknowns too" you end up with a huge listing of crap from TBC again.