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Old 12/06/08, 12:37 AM   #1471
Latas
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Uther
I was wondering how i could add the Darkmoon Card: Death proc to the list mysef. Also if you could add a section that displays for casters how much spell power each rating point is and how much 1% of that rating would be worth also, it would help my calculations greatly.

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Old 12/06/08, 5:04 PM   #1472
Kinmaul
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
First off I'm sorry if this has already been asked/requested, but I don't have it in me to read through 59 pages to see if someone has already posted this.

There is a lot of testing going on and most of it is coming to the conclusion that either through bugs or Blizzard changing mechanics the hit cap for various classes in Wrath is not the same as it was in BC. I myself have seen zero misses with 7.01% hit during a full 25 man Naxx clear. Similar reports are coming up from various dps classes which means that Rawr's is of course going to be incorrectly calculating the dps values for all gear if it is assuming a static 9% hit cap. My request is that I was wondering if it would be possible to have a sliding scale for hit cap which would also recalculate the value of it based upon the user's inputed hit cap.

Thus if I feel that my hit cap is 7% (or lower) I can adjust the slider and Rawr will give me updated dps ratings for gear based on my new hit cap.

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Old 12/06/08, 7:05 PM   #1473
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Well, we want Rawr to be as accurate as possible. We don't want to let users set the hit cap, because their 'feelings' aren't necessarily accurate. I've heard of the hit cap being reduced to 8%, and plan to research and confirm that when I get back from vacation. But I haven't heard of it being 7%. Were you grouped with a Draenei?

Rawr!

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Old 12/06/08, 7:30 PM   #1474
Kinmaul
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Astrylian View Post
Well, we want Rawr to be as accurate as possible. We don't want to let users set the hit cap, because their 'feelings' aren't necessarily accurate. I've heard of the hit cap being reduced to 8%, and plan to research and confirm that when I get back from vacation. But I haven't heard of it being 7%. Were you grouped with a Draenei?
I'm Horde so there definately was no Draenei present . I have spend over an hour at the Heroic Training Dummy and after ~2100 swings with no hit gear (and max weapon skill) my miss was at 5.2%. Granted even 2100 swings isn't a large enough sample to conclusively state a new hit cap it is enough evidence to debunk the idea that the hit cap is 9%. As soon as I can get more quality gear with less hit I will continue to lower my hit until misses start to show up in my combat log. I'm guessing the mark will be either 5 or 6% for Ret paladins with my inclination that it will be 5%. My reasoning (which is an educated guess) is that the hit cap has indeed been lowered to 8% and (some? all?) Ret paladins are bugged with the 3% hit from the removed Precision talent.

Perhaps a hit cap slider with a warning would be the best possible solution for now? Because right now I can assure you that your Ret model is giving inaccurate ratings to gear because of an incorrect hit cap.

Edit:
Also please take all of this in the spirit of constructive criticism. I absolutely love your program and the fact that I cannot rely on it is killing me. I'm simply trying to come up with a short term solution until someone can come up with conclusive data on a new hit cap.

Edited again because of terrible spelling.

Last edited by Kinmaul : 12/07/08 at 2:21 AM.

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Old 12/06/08, 11:58 PM   #1475
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Oh yeah, love the constructive criticism. At this point, I'll leave it up to the dev of each model to research the correct hit cap for their model, and make the appropriate changes.

Rawr!

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Old 12/07/08, 5:55 AM   #1476
Stapedius
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eredar (EU)
Moonkin crit vs. haste

I posted some strange behavior of the Moonkin model regarding the value of haste and crit rating in one of the moonkin threads. Regardless of what I do the potent gems are valued higher than the reckless ones leading me to believe that crit rating is valued higher than haste. This is not what for example WrathCalcs is telling me.

Moonkins at 80

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Old 12/07/08, 7:23 PM   #1477
Malakov
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Archimonde
I may not have looked around the program enough, but is there a way to change the stat weights? I find the program is weighing stats more heavily than some of them should be (ex. Int and Spirit vs Damage and Hit). Help would be appreciated.

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Old 12/07/08, 8:02 PM   #1478
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Rawr doesn't use stat weights. It accurately rates items based on the impact they actually have on your character. Guessing that you're using the made model, int and spr are worth more than dmg and hit typically when you go OOM. Ensure that you have buffs checked, and fight parameters set how you want. Use the Sequence Reconstruction graph to see when you'll go OOM.

Rawr!

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Old 12/07/08, 9:30 PM   #1479
dlanod
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Barthilas
I have one main question around the Hunter plugin... I've been playing around with both Rawr and the spreadsheet and have noticed some pretty significant differences between the two when I import my current gear from the Armory into each. e.g. Rawr ranks Eaglebane Bracers significantly higher than Interwoven Scale Bracers while the spreadsheet has the epic slightly higher. Another example is that Boots of the Neverending Path is ranked above Boots of Captain Ellis, and a very very long way above Boots of Twinkling Stars and Boots of the Terrestial Guardian in Rawr while the spreadsheet has them below all those three (amongst others). That's a pretty significant difference.

Are these differences to be expected due to a difference in approach? They could be quite significant in terms of gearing up obviously.

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Old 12/07/08, 11:58 PM   #1480
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Yes, the approach is different, and we're working on making the model match the spreadsheet more.

Rawr!

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Old 12/08/08, 12:11 AM   #1481
dlanod
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by Astrylian View Post
Yes, the approach is different, and we're working on making the model match the spreadsheet more.
Thanks. You even answered my unasked question as to which one I should follow when they disagree.

Edit: Well I think I figured out the boots issue anyway. The spreadsheet only counts any +hit that'll take me to the hit cap, and since those have such a huge +hit bonus it'll put me at least 1% over the hit cap. This means that about half the +hit doesn't get counted as a useful stat, dropping it significantly down the list on the spreadsheet but not in Rawr.

Last edited by dlanod : 12/08/08 at 12:43 AM.

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Old 12/08/08, 6:14 AM   #1482
Petersen
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether
I've a question regarding the stat graph; would it be possible to allow the colours used to represent the different statistic to be user-defined? Some of the colours (in particular agility and crit) are hard to distinguish from one another.


EDIT: I would also like to point out that (at least in the DK model) the 'mob level' is 70, 71, 72, and 73, with no option for 83 (though this may be simple failure to rename the variable, it could be confusing for new users). Additionally the armor box only accepts a maximum value of 10,000 when the apparent armor for bosses in Wrath is 13,083. ( Wrath boss armor testing )


EDIT 2: Something seems amiss with the DK model, it's rating blood *FAR* above unholy, not just 100-200 DPS better, more like 2000 DPS better.

Unbuffed, using my gear (armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory ) (Please don't make fun of my gear, I'm using this as an example of convenience, my first noticing of the disparity was playing around with figuring out 'best-in-slot')

with this unholy build: WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator

and this blood build:
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator


Blood rates at 4780 DPS, while Unholy a paltry 2650.

I have a hard time believing this is the actual difference between them, so what's going on that makes blood seem 180% as good as blood?


EDIT 3: One more thing, Chaotic Skyflare Diamond does not seem to be granting the 3% increased Critical damage to DKs (but it does seem to do it for Ret Paladins). The Item Editor seems to say it is, but it rates no higher than any of the other 21 Crit Strike metas.

Last edited by Petersen : 12/08/08 at 10:15 AM.

¬The Original PalaTank, William Erik Petersen The Unbreakable
Tanking with a Paladin since before it was cool.

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Old 12/08/08, 9:21 AM   #1483
thedopefishlives
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Baelgun
Originally Posted by Stapedius View Post
I posted some strange behavior of the Moonkin model regarding the value of haste and crit rating in one of the moonkin threads. Regardless of what I do the potent gems are valued higher than the reckless ones leading me to believe that crit rating is valued higher than haste. This is not what for example WrathCalcs is telling me.

Moonkins at 80
It's probably due to a bug that was just fixed, but has not been released yet. See my reply in the thread you linked.

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Old 12/08/08, 11:37 AM   #1484
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
There were quite a few problems with the DK DPS model (it's brand new, and the theorycraft to support it is brand new, we're working all the kinks out). Zurm's actively working on updates to the DK DPS model.


P.S. Just got home from vacation, will be trying to catch up on all the discussion threads, e-mails, bug reports, etc, from the weekend, all day today.

Rawr!

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Old 12/08/08, 3:02 PM   #1485
Petersen
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by Astrylian View Post
There were quite a few problems with the DK DPS model (it's brand new, and the theorycraft to support it is brand new, we're working all the kinks out). Zurm's actively working on updates to the DK DPS model.


P.S. Just got home from vacation, will be trying to catch up on all the discussion threads, e-mails, bug reports, etc, from the weekend, all day today.

I figured it had to do with the newness; just trying to help with bug detection. Great utility you've made, I feel somewhat lost without it.

¬The Original PalaTank, William Erik Petersen The Unbreakable
Tanking with a Paladin since before it was cool.

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