Leveling talent specs - Page 2

world · 03/04/08, 12:53 PM

I don't know if this goes against the opinions of every other druid out there, but the talent build for me leveling in feral was to get Omen of Clarity first (comparable to going feral talents, as the first two tiers of resto are strong), and then working towards shredding attacks.

I've reasoned that opening with Pounce, then getting 2 shreds in while the mob is stunned (or more with OOC procs) will do more damage than anything else possible, and be comparable to the straight Mangle build between levels 50-60.

Bendelat · 03/04/08, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Auran

Mage: It's been a while since I leveled my mage, but even 3 years ago, AOE grinding was very effective (back in my day, we had to spec insta Arcane Explosion). It's my opinion that frost is the superior leveling build, especially toward the higher levels (when you can get all the nice talents for shatter, etc). A few things support this: frost tends to be more efficient, frost crits are instant and are less likely to go "unused", and your survivability will be quite a bit higher.

Emphasis mine.

This is a pet peeve of mine. Frost's best case is to be as mana efficient as fire, it is never more efficient. You might gain some efficiency by not wasting damage on the kill shot but that is all. I am not disagreeing that survivability will be higher and that Frost is probably better for leveling post 30 or so.

Also if you are leveling, don't grind, do the quests. Quest xp is amazing now, just do them.

• Nurru · 03/04/08, 12:59 PM

While I feel frost is much stronger than fire for leveling after about level 40, when I releveled a mage I went fire with as many +fire greens as I could find and it was ridiculous to the point where I could basically kill many mobs with a single fireball. Especially before level 20 I always felt frost was frustrating because frostbolt's base damage was noticeably lower than fireball and at that point you don't have a lot of tricks for kiting or such.

It really comes down to personal preference though. As long as you don't do something stupid like level deep arcane you're going to have the same issues with needing to drink and cursing your mana bar while leveling a mage. At least these days you don't need to spec Evocate or Imp Arcane Explosion to feel useful.

• Disquette · 03/04/08, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Latito

For Rogues, Lethality is really not that impressive of a talent when leveling. With a crit rate in the range of 10-15%, you just don't crit very often. An extra 15% damage isn't that big. Yes, 15%.. you go from a 200% multiplier on crits to a 230% multiplier.

As mentioned, movement speed is important, finding a build which can get Fleet Footed would be pretty nice.

Possible rogue build that would work well for leveling?
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Start with sinister strike
Get all assassination listed thereafter except imp kidney shot
Get all combat listed up through AR
Get the kidney shot talent (or MoD if preferred).

That seems like an ok build and progression to me, playing to the strengths of solo talents, and mitigating some of the pitfalls of solo grinding (quick recovery being a good example of a grinding talent). This build also gives you plenty of elite-soloing capabilities via CB, AR, BF, reduced timer on sprint/evasion.

• bekayoh · 03/04/08, 1:35 PM

I actually just started a shaman (less than 5 minutes ago) and came here to find out some information on leveling specs. While I know absolutely nothing about shaman, I know with other classes respecing several times through leveling helps to get the most out of your leveling spec.

Showing the progression of a leveling spec is more important than showing the finished spec. Also showing a few variations on specs (duo spec, pvp server spec, ballstothewall dps spec etc) would be helpful.

As for some contribution to the thread. I have the most experience with aoe frost mage and I would say it used to be a great leveling option but now with increased quest xp, fire is probably better.

Arcos · 03/04/08, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by kenlyric

I already know how the first dozen replies to this post are going to read: "Spec doesn't matter when leveling". And sure, it doesn't matter a great deal compared to when you are raiding or PVP. Still, the right talents can grease your movement between levels. I've thrown together some talent builds that on the surface look pretty good.

These all assume a couple of things. First, that increasing damage is the number one priority. The builds aren't concerned with group utility, or PVP survivability. Many of the talents in them are fluid though, and can be moved to appropriate talents as needed.

...

So, which are the talents you consider *must have* while you're leveling. Which are the duds. Which look good on paper but don't pan out in practice?

...
Shaman - 16/45/0 - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
...

I'm going to have to agree with Malan here; I have no idea what you are going for with some of these talent choices, could you explain? For instance: 2/2 improved weapon totems? For raiding certainly, but this is a "leveling spec", and in solo play that's a talent that is literally never useful. I'd also like to hear the thought behind putting 16 points into elemental; again, my intuition would be that investing in non-enhancement talents you'll get the greatest returns in resto.

As others have mentioned, a number of choices need some explanation: for paladins, for example, 5/5 Conviction but no Deflection? 3/3 Imp Seal of the Crusader and 5/5 Divine Strength? There are more, but I'd really like to hear what you are trying to create here; a comprehensive guide to talents? A universal leveling strategy? We need you to tell us more.

◊ Malan · 03/04/08, 1:56 PM

It wasn't even just putting 16 pts in elemental that confused me, it was that he took Clearcasting with an Enhancement build.

Phlis · 03/04/08, 2:01 PM

Originally Posted by ZeroWashu

I would agree if the points spent in resto were actually useful.

First five points I would put into improved healing wave, time is of the essence not mana. You won't save enough mana on early heals to matter.

Second five points, ancestral healing really doesn't help much while leveling, neither does improved reincarnation. Totemic focus is better because you will be dropping totems the majority of the time.

I would have probably put at most 5 points in resto for the faster heal. Your suggestion screams "pvp" and not leveling.

It's aimed at effiency over throughput. First 5 points increase effiency on heals, you don't ever really need to heal yourself faster while leveling. The -0.5 seconds off healing wave is more of a PvP talent then the reduced mana cost. Reducing the mana cost means you have to drink less, especially since level 20-60 gear isn't exactly aimed at longevity. However mana cost off of totems isn't exactly necessary either for two reasons firstly that totems costs a proportionatly small part of your leveling mana pool so it doesn't really matter, and secondly you aren't ever really casting them while leveling. You move around too much going to different areas after each kill. In some places this isn't true, but then those places are few and far between. You're moving so much casting totems slows your leveling down even with the dps boost it gives. So, Ancestrial healing. Imp reinc is another effiency talent, if you happen to die(elite or something), it saves you the time of the corpse run. Really thats it. Decreasing the pushback on heals by 70% speaks for itself, it makes leveling incredibly easier.

◊ Malan · 03/04/08, 2:03 PM

Originally Posted by Phlis

you don't ever really need to heal yourself faster while leveling.

Decreasing the pushback on heals by 70% speaks for itself, it makes leveling incredibly easier.

Well your first statement was pretty silly but you corrected it with your last statement so I guess you're at a wash.

Phlis · 03/04/08, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Well your first statement was pretty silly but you corrected it with your last statement so I guess you're at a wash.

See, when do you heal yourself, specifically while leveling? I think there are probably 3 specific situations. While fighting a mob when you're already at low health, at which point yes time is more important then mana cost, but if you're at low health and have the mana to cast a heal why wait for the mob to attack you? Which leads into the second situation, you're fighting a mob, and get an add. Here you're being attacked, and are probably at medium health, and I make the arguement that if you have the -pushback full(level 24+) then the -0.5 seconds shouldn't matter, because you can just use a LHW to save your life, and effiency(mana cost) becomes more important. Otherwise it's only after you've finished a fight, at which point neither -0.5 sec or pushback matters, and only effiency counts.

• KinetiK · 03/04/08, 2:21 PM

I would argue that it is faster for a warlock to level as destruction until affliction becomes 'viable' about level 26. With 5/5 Fel Concentration then you can properly drain tank, until then it was an exercize in frustration.

Pyros · 03/04/08, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by KinetiK

I would argue that it is faster for a warlock to level as destruction until affliction becomes 'viable' about level 26. With 5/5 Fel Concentration then you can properly drain tank, until then it was an exercize in frustration.

Last time I leveled, during these level just immolate/corruption/coa+wand with succubus/imp kills stuff fast enough that you won't really need to drain tank. Better if you kite the mobs away while the dots kill it, then start and kite the other way(somewhat like a zigzag). I don't know I never really like destruction for leveling, but I might go that away for my next warlock newb I'm leveling, I'm getting 5points in corruption first though, instant corruption is just invaluable when you get adds and getting tons of pushbacks on your shadowbolts.

Anyway many people pointed it out, you can't really simple link lvl 70template and list them as leveling specs, there's usually specific orders in which to take talents that make it hard to read when looking at final template. For example Thick hide, it's obviously not a very good low level talent, but in the 70feral spec, you usually end up putting points in it around lvl 64 or so, and it's useful to tank instances then, or simply for leveling. This happens quite often, so you'd need a more detailed way to show templates over the levels. There's also classes that benefit from multi specing(warlock affliction then demon, warrior weird spec then fury, mage maybe fire at very low levels then frost?)

Unless obviously it's meant as lvl 70 to 80 spec, which I guess is not really needed since you'd have to take into account 2.4 changes, possible 2.4.x changes, maybe even 2.5 changes. Gear level might make differences too between efficient leveling specs for 70+.

• Maestroquark · 03/04/08, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by Disquette

Possible rogue build that would work well for leveling?
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

That is very similar to what I was just mapping out for myself before reading through the thread, even the order in which you take talents. The biggest change I would make is swap Improved Eviscerate for Ruthlessness. While leveling, it's more common to have an eviscerate almost finished off a mob (where extra damage would be useful) than it is to get a second finisher off where the extra combo point would actually get used.

Alternatively, you could go that route until a certain point and then respec for Mutilate and go combo point crazy.

• kenlyric · 03/04/08, 2:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jebraltar

Edit: I only just now actually looked at the Paladin spec. It's mind-numbingly bad. Conviction has no place in a leveling build, Improved Judgment is mostly going to hurt your sustainability, and Benediction is the only thing you have points in in the retribution tree that's not utterly useless.

I agree with this, but which talents do you use to move down the ret tree? Take imp might and skip everything in tier 2 ret? This is where I always stump trying to make a ret build.

Tirin · 03/04/08, 3:51 PM

Hit talents are a priority. With the exp for questing, it's a pretty good chance you'll find yourself fighting higher levels, and you don't have access to Dawnstones or Sha'tar enchants. Plus at lower levels you have less abilities, which gives you less options. A level 15 mage that sees his Nova resisted is probably dead, a higher level can Iceblock/DB/BlastWave/whatever.

Mana efficiency is a mixed bag. This is getting into the "twinking tricks" thread, but presumably if you're reading these forums you can afford the good water. Spirit Tap is always fun, but "2% reduced mana cost" or whatever just doesn't seem worth the points when you can drink to full in 5 seconds.

Surgie · 03/04/08, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by world

I don't know if this goes against the opinions of every other druid out there, but the talent build for me leveling in feral was to get Omen of Clarity first (comparable to going feral talents, as the first two tiers of resto are strong), and then working towards shredding attacks.

I've reasoned that opening with Pounce, then getting 2 shreds in while the mob is stunned (or more with OOC procs) will do more damage than anything else possible, and be comparable to the straight Mangle build between levels 50-60.

That is what I did when levelling my druid as well, although once I reached mangle I would pounce, mangle (for the +shred dmg debuff), shred, repeat shreds if OOC procs, then back to mangle when the stun is off. Once maim was available I swapped to that for my finisher and then shred out of that.

Furor + power-shifting, while a bit overkill for levelling, is always nice when dealing with adds and the like.

• Disquette · 03/04/08, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by Maestroquark

That is very similar to what I was just mapping out for myself before reading through the thread, even the order in which you take talents. The biggest change I would make is swap Improved Eviscerate for Ruthlessness. While leveling, it's more common to have an eviscerate almost finished off a mob (where extra damage would be useful) than it is to get a second finisher off where the extra combo point would actually get used.

Alternatively, you could go that route until a certain point and then respec for Mutilate and go combo point crazy.

You know, I completely forgot that they delinked ruthlessness and relentless strikes. I like your eviscerate plan better than my suggestion. So, the improved version for grinding would be:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The 3 final points you would then put where ever you want (probably SF, MoD, or imp KS).

◊ Merple · 03/04/08, 4:22 PM

Having recently levelled up a shaman, I have no idea why you gents are spending points in resto first, to be honest. I levelled like a warrior, and used bandages for 90+% of my healing. If things ever got hairy, some combination of Earthbind, Stoneclaw and Ghostwolf always gave me enough space to either use a full rank HW or Bandage (or just run).

I followed the following build, and have no complaints about how it worked out for me.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

After you get to SR, you're coasting anyway, so get whatever you want.

A question to the warriors out there: Assuming you largely avoid HS, how is Slam for early 30s levelling with a good 2-hander? It would seem to me to be to be the best way to push out the damage, but I'm probably wrong. Obviously you respec at 40.

Jebraltar · 03/04/08, 4:26 PM

Originally Posted by kenlyric

I agree with this, but which talents do you use to move down the ret tree? Take imp might and skip everything in tier 2 ret? This is where I always stump trying to make a ret build.

For a prot spec I was using for leveling, I wouldn't take anything except maybe Benediction. For a ret spec, I would start with Benediction, pick up Imp Might, and basically pretend I was making a raid DPS spec. (I'd also grab Pursuit of Justice quite early to make leveling less painful.)

There's nothing in the ret tree that's especially helpful for prot grinding until Imp Retribution Aura or Sanctity Aura, and both of those involve far too many filler points for me to ever advocate them over just going 10/xx/0.

Usually, though, like I said, Ret is faster. It's the spec that gets the best support from pre-60 gear (especially now), it has had some substantial DPS and sustainability buffs recently, and it's good at fighting every kind of mob, not just fast-hitting mobs in big packs. It's also kind of nice because you'll probably already have a full ret set by the time protection becomes viable. (Protection is garbage for leveling until level 30, and it gets another big boost at 40.)

Fun, but naturally inefficient.

Emily · 03/04/08, 4:34 PM

Prot used to be the king for levelling paladins due to a) grinding being around as efficient as questing, so you could just stick in an area full of melee mobs and grind all day, b) Ret tree being full of crap.

Now with questing being so rewarding, you'll be travelling a lot and having to deal with mobs that are far from ideal to kill as Prot. Prot is terrific fun when you're in an area where it works, and is a very nice levelling spec if you want to tank a lot of instances as you go, but Ret will see you clearing out solo quests considerably faster.

Strongly agree with spending all points in Enhancement as shaman. Shamanistic Focus is great for increasing efficiency, the quicker you get it the better, and DW/SS just turns you into a beast, no reason at all to delay DW past lvl 40 especially.

zeidrich · 03/04/08, 4:42 PM

Leveling paladin I always liked the idea of:

10-20: Ret, until SoC
20-34: More Ret
35: Respec Prot to Reckoning,
35+: Rest in Ret, to regain SoC.
45+: Have fun insta-gibbing mobs with quad hits (Reckoning + SoC).

At that point you can continue in Prot or Ret, whichever playstyle appeals to you more.

Rajaat9 · 03/04/08, 4:47 PM

Here's what worked for me well while leveling as a warrior.

Level 15: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - You want to begin teching down the Arms tree, with a two hander. Parry is good for survivability, and you charge every mob you fight.

Level 20: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - At this