Perakles

You're coming off with a serious attitude of "If you're some kind of clueless mouth-breathing noob who needs a guide to level up, then ret may be faster, but us prot grinding iconoclasts will own you". I leveled my paladin as protection at the release of BC from 1-70 in 9 days /played, I understand that it's good. Pulling 6-8 mobs and killing them takes slightly more time than killing two mobs as full prot, which takes about 3 times as long as killing one mob as retribution. Assuming you actually can pull that many mobs without leashing, and that they're all the quest mob you need. Which, in fact, is not really that common. It's great for grinding, but grinding doesn't compare to quest XP now.

Protection is amazing survivability, and less gear dependence than retribution, but it requires an existing high-level character to funnel shield spikes to you in order to be viable and I don't believe it would be faster than retribution given the new quest XP rewards. I understand it may be your favorite, but in a discussion of leveling talent specs, I don't think chiming in and shouting "protection rules!" every time someone suggests that retribution may be the most effective way to level a paladin in the current environment is contributing to a discussion.

Getting back on topic, I play my warrior again these days, and here's what I would use for my 20-60 leveling specs :

20 -
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Piercing howl is your first escape skill when facing multiple opponents unless you're Tauren and have Warstomp. One of the biggest problems with leveling a warrior is that short of an early retaliation (not available until 20) or intimidating shout (available at 22), your options for turning the tide of battle if you get a couple of adds basically consist of drinking a potion, hamstringing, and hoping they don't kill you before you get away.

30 -
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Blood Craze reduces downtime and improves the likelihood you'll survive a fight with multiple opponents. It's not great, but then neither is the extra 20 attack power you'd get from improved battle shout. Sweeping strikes is the next level 30 choice, making multiple opponents much easier to deal with.

40 -
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Dual wield specialization, flurry, and bloodthirst. By this point if you've run through SM and RFD (and you're horde), you should be dual wielding [Sword of Omen] and [Vanquisher's Sword] as quest rewards, and you should be ripping things apart with dual-wielding. Bloodthirst gives another tremendous boost to uptime - 50 health every 6 seconds is the health regen equivalent of chain-chugging superior healing potions. It's not as good as mortal strike for kill speed, but I think the reduced downtime outweighs the difference.

50 -
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Shifting away from the fury tree at 45 - rampage and improved berserker stance are not tremendous contributors with pre-BC gear, so we move on to pick up talents from the arms tree. Improved Berserker rage is a nice rage boost, particularly good for ensuring that you get regular bloodthirsts in.

60 -
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
After this point, you'll be picking up "of the beast/of the soldier" and quest gear and should start shifting towards a more pure killing-efficiency spec. If you can bear the hour of hamstring-mashing agony, it may be worth levelling up a 2-handed weapon and switching to arms at this point - the number of blue 2 handed quest reward weapons dramatically outnumbers the number of blue 1 handed quest reward weapons, giving you a better guaranteed upgrade path as you level through BC.

 

Chirality

Leveling in the 60s, with far-superior BC green/quest items, wasn't too bad.

It's the 10-40 that's terrible. When Improved Rend and Improved Charge are 'good' talents .....

The issue with warriors is balancing experience per kill with health lost per kill. Often it's worth slaughtering things 3 levels below you for 2/3rds the experience each of something one level above you--they hurt you the same.

 

BurntSushi

I thought this was an interesting write up concerning warrior leveling, backed by some numbers. I find it amazing that some one leveled 3 warriors at the same time in the name of research.

Warrior Leveling Demystified - TheorySpot

 

Prinsesa

What about Protection Warriors? Would the reduction in damage taken outweigh the kill speed reduction of using a sword-and-board?

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....63815BffMm.png

 

Touf

It would if food wasn't in the game. But it's basically all the disadvantages of a prot pally with none of the advantages.

 

Howard Roark

I leveled my 2 handed maces from 0 to 350 in 15 minutes.
Search auction house for intellect, and buy buy buy.
Also grab that 30 int elixir and mage buff.

 

• Chicken

At very low levels of gear a Protection Warrior is actually a pretty good leveling choice since the increase in the damage Revenge does. Once you have both Revenge and Shield Block you'll actually do fairly good damage and be practically unkillable by melee mobs as well (As long as you keep upgrading your shield that is). Protection becomes pretty weak as a leveling spec once the other specs start getting to their good talents though, but it's underrated for low levels.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Chaja

I assume that you think that int increases the chance to improve your weapon skill. However, according to wowwiki: So unfortunately your suggestion doesn't seem to work any more.

 

TheCutlery

Funneling shield spikes? Seriously? I used 3 before 60. You can make enough gold to get one made. Barring that, doesn't everyone on this thread have a high level character? I'd assume that 99% of the people on this board have at least one 70, and if you can't spend 10g on an item that vastly increases the leveling speed of your alts, then I dunno what to tell you.

As far as pulling that many quest mobs without leashing not being common, come on. Terrokar Forest --

Teromoth quest. Yes, they have that annoying dust debuff. Yes, you can kill them with that debuff. Round up 3-4, kill them, repeat.
Wolf Hide quest -- they're all over. Round em up.
Warp Stalker quest -- Round em up.
Arrokoa quests -- Round em up.
Bonechewer peons + Backbreakers and Devastaters -- Round up the whole mess.
Firewing point -- Okay, casters suck, but 2/3 of the slaughter is melee. Round em up.
Infested Protectors -- Not really possible to round these up due to the spacing, I guess you gotta take em down one at a time
Bonelashers -- Round em up.
Spiders -- Round em up.
Cabal dudes, north side of Auch, round them up
Lost spirits near that southern camp -- Round them up


Solo mob kill quests
1 in firewing point.
1 named dog
1 named basilisk (Aldor, group, easily soloed by a prot pally)
1 named kill in orc camp
3 named groups in the bone wastes -- Spider, Flying dragon, and the bonelasher. All easy solos.
Fumping and big bone worm

Those are quests where kill speed isn't as important as the time it takes to run around and get to them, not to mention that if you're not a stupidly durable spec that never dies, you've gotta actually pug them, which may or may not get done at the times you play.

Seriously, I just don't see it. There's not a quest that takes you far and wide killing stuff that only exists in single pulls spaced out evenly across the entire zone. Sometimes you need to round up whatever you've got and kill it all, working on multiple quests at a time. 2 wolves, a warpstalker and a teromoth? Good pull, round em up. But, whatever, you wanna level ret 30-60 feel free. I can't possibly see how it could be faster (until MAYBE when you get Crusader strike) when all you're doing is sitting around waiting for SOC to proc and using Consecrate as your main damage on a single target. Doesn't sound efficient to me. Maybe there's a whole slew of buttons that Ret pallies have now that I didn't have at 34 on my first pally. I doubt it though.

 

TheCutlery

Interesting set of data. What I find most notable is the fact that while DW may be faster, it is only by a matter of minutes over the course of an entire level or 2. This really leads to the conclusion that if you have any PvP interest/necessity at all, spec for PvP, and make those minutes up by having the right spec to kill someone.

The way you hear people talk about "zomg awesome fury leet dps" I expected MUCH more. The difference really wasn't that notworthy at all.

 

Slowthar

"zomg awesome fury leet dps" isn't really existent until you hit 70 and get some +hit gear. MS is just flat out more viable for leveling, because you can just go grab any giant 2H and smash things. (It's also really fun ) You don't really come across any large amounts of +hit gear leveling until the last quests in Netherstorm.

 

TheCutlery

Well, right, but EVERYBODY levels fury it seems, because they've got some sort of hardon for the tree. I look at the fury tree real hard every time I roll up a noob warrior on someone else's server, and I just can't put the points in a tree that doesn't do much for your DPS in the gap from Cruelty to Enrage. UW is unspectacular because I was never impressed with DW, Piercing howl doesn't save you from anything, blood craze is pretty minor at that level, that's a whole lot of points wasted on pretty much nothing, not to mention that Enrage isn't even that good anymore, and Sweeping Strikes isn't the powerhouse it was when it was in the arms tree and you were using a big 2h with it.

Comparatively, deflection is 5% less damage taken (adds up), you charge virtually every mob, so that rage adds up quick, Improved overpower makes use of one of your primary abilities, and Deep Wounds does add a non insignificant amount of DPS once you start getting ahold of some decent 2h's. I always wanted to try fury at some point, but I just couldn't ever see leveling up with it.

 

ZeroWashu

I think the concern about the exaggeration you made about pulling X+Y mobs in the time it takes RET to do X mobs is related to Azeroth content, which is where the real struggle to level is still at. Leveling in Outlands is a breeze, all classes can do it well. Legacy content as I refer to it is another story. The claims you made for AE farming with a Prot are akin to the boasts of those who claim AOE Frost is still the path to follow. Both conveniently ignore that except in certain areas quests mobs are not dominant. Let alone the fact that quest XP from doing quests in the proper order (relative distance, chaining, etc) will always out level AOE now.

There are actually few spots a Paladin can AOE in TBC which would be hard to sustain simply because too many TBC mobs have interrupts that work flawlessly or close enough to not show a difference. The rule seemed to be in TBC - keep it away from you and you won't suffer interrupts. Whereas the frequency of interrupt creatures in Azeroth was a lot lower.

All specs are not equal just as not all players. I have met many a mage/protPally player frustrated to no end because they couldn't do what they read. Its easy to declare you can do it but the amount of time you spend doing it is probably a lot less than you realize. IOW - leveling my frost mage I had the option of AOE farming, but during Azeroth just exactly what were my real opportunities? Lets see, footpads/thieves in Hillsbrad have a good density, Pirates (but many can interrupt with guns so you need IB to do it), some select parts of Felwood (too many humanoids have ranged), parts of WPL/EPL. Not much during the course of your leveling. TBC... too many places have spell casters or equivalent attacks or worse, interrupts, to make it fun. HFP, not much other than ravagers but even they have their own issues. Birds swoop/dive annoyance. Zanga has too many casters intermixed, meaning as a Pally you got to reckoning them down fast and hope you didn't the other two or three nearby ones too. Bog Lords are about it for reasonable fighting. Terrokar you covered mostly but Arroka are plagued with casters too, you have to be very selective.

Moving on, Nagrand. Clefthoofs stun interrupt, deer butt interrupt, birds - well I forget them, some of the ogres charge interrupt or just have too many casters. Won't even go into the ranged attacking water elementals. So a whole zone of annoyance? Blue meanies around the big diamond aren't too bad but can range attack.

BEM. A few good pulls with ogres are available. Its not too hard to find a few spots you can get lots of non-casters but its not prevalent enough to rely on. Prot Pallies are great for the lightning bolt quest, though any healing class can do it fine. Some of the consortium may lend themselves to it but I'd rather be elsewhere

NS. Yuck. Very few opportunities for any AE farming. Dinos in a few tight places and the cats around stormspire.

SMV. If you like piggies its the place to be. Though charge from adds won't be fun. The Naga offer one or two good spots. I haven't spent enough time here, I generally avoid "dark" zones.


While AOE farming is an option thats all it really is, an option. You can't rely on it and its easier to have AOE situations hit the fan than other approaches.

 

Slowthar

From my experience, you are absolutely correct. While I leveled, I switched between all three specs, just to try them out. Overall, I would recommend leveling as MS, and then trying all three specs for at least a week once you're 70.

 

ZeroWashu

Well it becomes noteworthy over the lifetime of the characters. 2.5 hours difference from 1 to 60 is still good and might be more important because we are dealing with an experienced player. This puts the emphasis on the spec having real value. Now the areas of concern would be weapons/enchants which he did try to take into account.

Over analysis, maybe. Yet I seem to be in the same boat as he is, my fury spec is moving much faster than my previous arms warrior; which I did delete in the 50s so perception could be observer error; but the key point it just feels more fun. Kind of like AE grinding with a pally, while it might not be as fast as some classes it sure feels better at times.

I am impressed with the shift precision gave him

 

Douglas

Here's the thing both "sides" have to get about paladin leveling.

Just about nobody wants to level Holy. It's painful. There's a lot of agreement on that.

Prot and Ret are actually both reasonably viable now. Both can get the job done without making you want to slit your wrists. They do so very differently.

Under some circumstances (AoE grinding), prot is more efficient. Under other circumstances (single-target kill quest), ret is more efficient. Which of those matters more depends on play style, and which of those is most efficient overall changes as the game design changes (eg. the recent boosts to quest XP).

But (some of) the Prot fans and the Ret fans are talking to each other as if they were talking to Holy fans. You're not! Both specs get the job done without a whole lot of pain. If someone has more fun playing Prot, I'm not gonna advise them to go Ret. If someone has more fun playing Ret, I'm not gonna advise them to go Prot. Both are fine, neither has to "l2p", neither is retarded.

There are genuinely awful leveling specs out there. The prot and ret fans shouldn't be talking to each other as if they were talking to a proponent of an awful spec.

 

TheCutlery

Well, riddle me this in regards to Ret vs Prot.

What exactly do you do as ret between 20 and 50?

If I'm correct, you judge Crusader, and wait for SoC to proc. That's it. If you've got some mana you want to blow through, you use Consecrate (single target horrible efficiency) as your only mana dump ability. Period. That's it. There's nothing else going for it. You're using a 2h, so your mitigation is terrible, you have no controllable burst, you have no real use for your mana other than healing yourself with a horribly inefficient heal. You don't get to use SoL/SoW/JoL/JoW because you're focused entirely on killing something before something else attacks you and completely ruins your day.

As prot --

You "grind" (and I use this term loosely, I think everyone is taking this too literally. I don't GRIND anything. I gather up quest mobs and kill them. I quest exclusively, grinding is beyond retarded to me. Quest needs 50 bear asses? Fine, round up a bunch of bears. That's not grinding, it's questing) multiple mobs at a time. You have the option of tanking any and all instances (Pugs are certainly not a mainstay of the leveling process anymore, but it's nice to have the option), and you can solo elites, group quests, and pretty much anything else you want. Even up to 70. My friend said he soloed every quest on his prot pally except for about 3 in netherstorm and a couple of the 5 mans in SMV. You don't have this option as ret. If so necessary, you can kill single mobs with JoC/SoR at a reasonable pace. Quick? Certainly not. Ret absolutely does have you beat in the Single Player vs Single Mob categoy, but Prot wins in every other comparison.

Don't see it there either. I skipped so many zones in Azeroth it was unbelievable this time around. So awesome. My first pally was exalted everywhere by the time he hit 60 because you had to do so many quests to level up that it came with the territory. I had to TRY to get exalted on my 2nd pally because the leveling is so ridiculous now. Pick and choose what you want to do. I skipped the barrens, Stonetalon, Desolace, Thousand Needles, Feralas, level 30-40 of STV, Swamp of Sorrows, some of Tanaris, Searing Gorge, Burning Steppes and the last part of Silithus. My 66 pally doesn't even have the Crossroads flight path open because I was hell bent on NEVER setting foot in the barrens. My plans were ruined by wanting to get to RFK, but I only have Taurajo opened on him still. There is so much content that you can afford to pick and choose which suits your leveling style. Stonetalon is too much running, I leveled very early morning in Hillsbrad when the ganking was at a minimum. The gnolls in feralas run, and there's a lot of annoying crap that isn't easily AE'd, so I skipped it. I never did much care for Burning Steppes, no reason to waste time there when I can AE the cauldron quests in WPL for a level in about 40 minutes.

To recap to everyone who's apparantly confused here...I don't ever advocate grinding. Grinding is dumb, and I wouldn't suggest that I just AE'd my way to 70 not giving a crap about quests. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the VAST majority of quests are Go Here, get 40 Bear Asses or Go There, Kill 20 of these, or even better a combination of both. Why is killing 6 at a time worse than killing 1 at a time and reliant entirely on procs per minute? I don't see it.

 

Vhex

Ret is easier, prot is a little faster but takes 5x the brain power to pull off because you have to think about what you're doing. Gathering mobs is no problem. Selecting proper targets and knowing which quests to skip, micromanaging your crap and etc...etc...is a pain in the ass.

Honestly, if you're leveling a Paladin just make friends with a 70 priest or druid and 2-box. I know this thread isn't about PLing and is about leveling spec's, but this is such a no brainer because it is the FASTEST way to get a level 70. It was crazy-ridiculous fast pre-2.nerfeSApatch as well. And it's stupidly fun. Gathering 40+ mobs and AEing them down will -never- get old and is such a fun break from the "Pull 1 mob, kill it, loot it, pull next mob, kill it, loot it" mantra that every other class has to deal with (with the limited exception of frost mages).

Were I to level again without the benefit of my priest for power leveling, I would go prot deep enough to get reckoning, and then continue back down ret. Even if you don't porcupine, pulling 3-4 mobs at a time for perma-reckoning beats the hell out of crusader strike.

 

Howard Roark

WoWiki is incorrect.

I can provide evidence if requested, my staves and polearms are still 0.