I'm currently working on a hunter, and I was wondering if anyone has any major tips (spec, weapon focus, etc).

1)I'm going BM right now, and the biggest question is whether to sacrifice some dps talents early on for pathfinding (8% cheetah speed) and animal handler (8% mount speed). I would basically late in maxing unleashed fury and frenzy for a few levels. It makes sense that I would kill faster if I moved faster, but these talents, unlike pursuit of justice or fleet footed, are situational speed increases so their impact will be less dramatic. I essentially see a lot of potentially useful non-dps talents that could lower leveling downtime, and I'm not sure much of an impact getting the pet DPS talents are for soloing.
2)Should I get endurance or thick hide as filler tier 2 points? (My pet dies rarely enough that I don't think imp revive pet is worth the points-I see that talent more for pvp)
3)Most warriors who go arms to level will get 5/5 cruelty and simply respec at 40 for MS. Should I do something similar with lethal shots? (respeccing at 45-50 for serpent's swiftness)
4)Lastly, will the 2.4 changes make imp mend pet worth the cost? (Is it worth it now for the mana reduction?)

Any other hunter tips are welcome (especially gearing choices/hints)

Ok, here is my take on leveling up a warrior. It's not so much which spec is superior, it's more a matter of different nice weapons being available at different points in time.

Keep in mind this progression path is mainly minded for Horde characters.
0-20: Nothing much stirring there. Since you don't really have all that many buttons to push or points to spend.

21+: DW arrives. If you've done WC, you have a wingblade for your mainhand. at 21, you can get a boost through BFD, for outlaws sabre. After that, spec 9/3 Fury/arms and do a simple charge in, and keeping HS up - routine. For pure grinding, locate mobs 0-2 levels below you for killing. So that you can kill and loot before charge is back up. It's also great for establishing a base rhythm. Keep this spec until you get to 31, dropping extra points in arms or fury to your liking. The base pattern stays the same.

31+: Get boosted through your warrior questline, getting the nice Whirlwind axe. Respec to Imp. slam build, grab a swing timer mod and start slamming stuff to death. Bonus points can be spent in Fury or Arms at your leisure.

41+: You should have Sword of Omen from SM and Vanquisher's Sword from RFD. Respec to DW Fury. Bonus points for getting a boost through Maraudon for Thrash blade from Princess @ lvl 45. Spend extra points at your leisure in Fury mainly. Should be plenty of obvious choices.

51+: Go to AV. get your IBS. spec Arms MS or 2H fury if you prefer.

60+: Go to Outlands, once you get thrallmar honored, there is a nice pair of 53 dps axes you can get from the quartermaster, if you want to go back to dual wielding. It's worth noting that there are no blue quality quested 2H drops in outlands before Nagrand (unless you get yourself exalted with Sporeggar). So you would have to settle for a green 2h'er for the first 5 levels in outlands (still much better than IBS).

And there it is.
ALL of the drops mentioned here are quest rewards, So you won't have to worry about being lucky with the drops. For all the fury builds, you can drop points in commanding presence for anything else. Aren't really anything truly awesome at that point in the tree sadly.

The good thing about this path, is that it pretty much takes you around the block for dps specs. Only thing didn't get to try, was a DW/Devastate build. Which i'm having fun in outlands with now.

I followed this exactly, without ever following a guide. These choices just seemed like the logical/best choices as I was leveling my Warrior.

DW frustrated me due to the high miss rate. I went 2h fury at 30 for WW Axe and I plan to switch to an Executioner's Cleaver at 43.

A nice write up of what's available, I'd like to add the Halaani/Arkadian Claymore a great 2 handed sword usable at 66 from a vendor in Halaa which will easily see you to 70:

[Arkadian Claymore]

The throwing weapon sold by the same vendor isn't bad either:

[The Sharp Cookie]

If your lucky enough to have friends to take you through Sethekk Halls then you can get a quest for Terokk's Quill at level 65 which has the same ilvl as most level 70 blue weapons.

I've been following this so far with very nice results and reached 2/2 Fleet Footed. I'm starting to wonder on the DPS I am missing out by not going combat though, but fleet footed is extremely efficient now I still don't have my mount.

I'm wondering what the opinions are on respeccing at 40 (when fleet footed will loose a big part of it's strenght) and to what exactly, as the first 3 tiers of Assasination are just mind blowing to me.

I loved Pathfinding before 40 - it's a noticeable speed increase for running around, and lovely for flag running in 20-29 if you plan to pvp some as you level. Ditch is at 40, though. Animal Handler is very worth it, mainly for the hit - I'm pretty sure it works with Growl, and less Growl resists is a beautiful thing.

I found Improved Revive Pet useful when leveling despite the naysaying - your pet will die, and being able to bring is back in 4 seconds instead of 10 and not have to drink after is nice. Also good for those times when your pet dies on a multipull of mobs and you can rez it and send it back in. That said, I'd say Thick Hide over Endurance.

I value Pathfinding when leveling too much to skip it, so it'd be a non-option for me. That said, if you're not as attatched to the talent as I am, the BM tree is not fantastic for DPS until about the third or forth tier, so you could certainly do something of the sort.

It's worth it now - 2.4 doesn't really change the talent - it's currently 15/50% cleanse at 1/2 points, 2.4 had it at 50/100% but then lowered to 25/50%.

Gearing is basically any /agi/ap/int/stam gear you can find, valuing stats in that order. Hunters are not at all gear-dependent when leveling - basically just ensure your ranged weapon isn't too far behind the curve and you'll be fine. If you feel like twinking a profession, Engineering's [Cogspinner Goggles] of the Bandit, [Rocket Boots Xtreme], and the epic helm (requires level 62 in 2.4, but [Primal Nether] becomes BoE) are all really nice. Also, if you feel bored as BM, respec Marks - I leveled as that from 60-70, and it wasn't noticeably harder, and more fun in world PvP (also Silencing Shot is great for pulling casters).

I agree 100%.

The Voidwalker gets useless quite quickly in terms of managing aggro. Getting improved Voidwalker might make him viable to tank a few more levels, but his DPS is awful and he runs out of mana easily. Lots of people I know leveled their warlock with a VW tanking only to have to fear stuff when 1v1 - sometimes because their VW was getting beat up too much! When it gets to that point, just get out the succubus for better DPS.

Get your succubus as fast as you can at 20, and she'll put out DPS resembling a BM pet while taking 1-2 hits before the mob turns to you, 30 yards away, due to your dots ramping up. Don't put her deaggro on auto cast, but use it judiciously when the mob stays on her for too long. By the time the mob gets to you and lands a couple hits it should be dead. The succubus will regen her life very quickly out of combat, and you can Life Tap your mana back This becomes even better once you max Fel Concentration and can drain-tank optimally. Then once you get Dark Pact you can keep your imp phased out and dot up multiple mobs without really worrying about downtime; you could keep the succubus out and turn off all her spells, but the imp has a deeper mana pool.

I tried Fel Guard, and the downtime on that guy was just awful compared to straight affliction with an imp. At least, once I got to Outland. I leveled my lock to 60 well before BC so I can't comment on how amazing it might be at 50.

I levelled 60-70 as Marks/BM. I found it amazingly efficient, but posibly due to the amount of T3 I had on, meaning my boar was an aggro magnet (TSA, Careful Aim, Master Marksman with T3 Attack Power scaling with a charged growl. Yum).

However for levelling from 1-70 I'd say that unless you stopped off in Naxx and got your Cryptstalker, better off with BM.

I've actually done that - my old hunter before I rerolled horde was in 3-piece t3, the BWL crossbow, and the rest of the slots filled with the epic pvp set. Not quite full t3, but still well-geared. My current hunter obviously had none of that, and there was honestly very little difference in leveling both as Marks. I imagine that the mana-return and mana-reduction bonuses on t3 would have been amazing for leveling, though.

Something I forgot to mention: Pigs have Charge. Charge is amazing in both leveling and PvP. Grab a Boar and level it up - unlike pretty much all other pet types, there's no Boars in outlands.

Thanks guys. As an orc, getting bellygrub @ 24 was a giant pain but it was worth it, boars are awesome =D.

One more question: Is weapon speed important or is that more of an end-game concern? I don't have steady shot so I've just been buying whatever weapon is available on AH without regard to speed.

Faster weapons provide more Imp Hawk procs and more Go for the Throat, but burn more ammo. Apart from those considerations, it doesn't matter until Steady Shot.

As for set bonuses making hunter leveling easier, 2/5 T5 and, for those fortunate enough to get it, Thori'dal, will make leveling 70-80 an absolute cake walk, although it probably will be easy regardless.

When I had a BM I really didn't care, but as a MM I would stick to slower weapons for the bigger crits which MM has bonuses for damage on.

If you dismiss him prior to summoning, you keep soul link active (and any other buffs that might be active on him), and restore him to full hp/mana. Quite nifty.

Hey guys, would you say Subtlety is viable for rogue leveling, or is it more endgame PvP tree?

Ugh, it's easily the least intelligent choice of the 3 trees. Combat is the no-brainer button mash spec, but it gets old fast. Assassination works very well if you choose daggers for Imp Backstab, Seal Fate, Relentless Strikes, etc (my preference).

Just briefly look at the Subt talents, and with each one, ask yourself "How will this help me level more effectively?" I think the answer becomes clear when you have an untalented main attack until you finally reach Hemo, which will hit like wet toilet paper at that level.

Basically any rogue talent spec is going to level quickly compared to most classes. Combat is, in my opinion, the fastest and most efficient leveling spec, but only if you're not easily bored. If you really want to level subtlety, I would recommend going for your first two points in improved sinister strike and respeccing into hemo at 30.

Ozzmar's assessment is pretty much right on the money, though - you're getting almost nothing in leveling efficiency for your first 15 talent points in subtlety. After 30th level, you start getting into the nifty talents that give you cooldown manipulation and reduction, which are great for PVP and handy for surviving mistakes but not great for kill power.

After leveling 3 70s and 5 other characters to 60+, my feeling is that the "best" leveling spec is the one you are having fun with, but if you're looking at efficiency, figure out how you can kill things most quickly and stick to that. Subtlety is not where you want to be for efficiency, but it may be a lot of fun for you.

The general problem with relying on Fel Concentration is that it decreases how much of a "damage pool" your health and mana give you.

Put it this way: with full HP/mana, you can kill x number of mobs you can kill (or damage you can do) before reaching 1 life or 0 mana. Every time you take a point of damage, it's mana you lose and it increases your downtime. Getting hit (which is what relying on Fel Concentration is, and this is especially true before level 40) reduces the number of mobs you can kill before having to eat and drink. You have to keep in mind that with enough Shadow Wrath gear (or +dmg from instances and such) you should be able to most yellow and green mobs with Immolate + Corruption + Curse of Agony and a few smacks from your Voidwalker - pre-30 that is.

It basically boils down to having Improved Voidwalker and taking a lot less hits against having to drain mobs more often. That and personal play style: if you're aggressive go with Improved Voidwalker and DoT everything or take the safer approach and only DoT a few mobs at a time. Just keep in mind that getting hit leads to more eating and drinking than usual, even with Dark Pact.



Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying to pass up Fel Concentration. I'm saying that you shouldn't try to rely on it. Fel Concentration is still a must for leveling as a Warlock.

Well, I was asking mainly because I am leveling a rogue on a PvP server, which comes with world ganking and doing/avoiding it. Hence the question if Subtlety is viable for leveling at all, since I assume it's better for those random PvP engagements. Also, not getting bored may be a factor.

The easiest way to look at the problem is to break it down level by level. Assuming you want to level with swords/fists/maces rather than daggers, one option for speccing would be:

10-21
2/2 Imp SS, 5/5 MoD, 5/5 Camo.
* Handy for those random pvp encounters, stealthing past high level mobs, bypassing trash to get to named mobs for quests etc. Camo in particular would be very useful especially if you like to get the opener on every mob, you'll definitely notice the speed boost with lower ranks of Stealth.
22-31
1/1 Ghostly Strike, 3/3 Initiative, 1/2 Dirty Tricks, 3/3 Serrated Blades, 3/3 Setup and Hemo (respec out of SS).
* Initiative and Setup help with your CP generation, which are the only real damage helping talents you have in Sub at this level. Dirty tricks is a filler, Serrated Blades is a flat dps boos, Ghostly Strike is a handy mini-evasion which can stack with Setup for some handy CPs.
32-41
1/1 Prep, 2/2 Dirty Deeds, 5/5 Deadliness, 1/1 Premeditation, 1/3 Cheat Death.
* Prep for extra utility with CDs, Dirty Deeds for very cheap 3cp Cheap Shots to help set up every single mob you kill, Deadliness for flat DPS, Premed for occasional burst and Cheat Death for survivability.
42-51
2/2 Heightened Senses, 3/3 Cheat Death, 5/5 Sinister Calling, 1/1 Shadowstep.
* HS is a flat + to survivability, Cheat Death maxed out, Sinister Calling for the Hemo bonus/Agi and obviously Shadowstep to round out the tree.

I don't think there'd be much argument over the individual talents, but its pretty clear that early subtlety is incredibly weak on damage increase compared to Assassination or Combat. Leveling as Sub would rely on surviving longer against mobs through cooldown abuse and stealthing past big packs: trouble is, at the lower levels there are very few instances of 'hard' groups of mobs that you need to avoid.

As far as avoiding/surviving PvP encounters goes, Rogues already have it pretty easily through stealth and Vanish. Subtlety honestly doesn't bring a lot to the table insofar as avoiding world pvp goes that Rogues don't already have in general, and if a level ?? on a mount wants to kill you while you're questing in the Barrens, odds are they will. By the time you get to Outland, I guess a 62 Sub Rogue would be harder to kill than a 62 Combat Rogue, but your lack of damage throughput compared to 5/5 Combat Potency and early assassination would make it unbearable. Prep is the only PvP clutch you have while levelling, and only for a second Vanish to get out of being ganked: but its a hell of a lot to give up for such an ability.

As a previous poster said, though, it's all about enjoyment. If you have fun as Sub, go nuts. Just don't expect to avoid every ganker in the game because you can restealth a few seconds quicker.

I am leveling a rogue on a PvP server at the moment, (or rather, it is on hold right now due to exams), and specced shadowstep at 58. Armory can be found here.
I have found Cheat Death and prep to be the most ungodly incredible leveling talents there are. You essentially eliminate 90% of all corpseruns, as you can nearly always vanish when you see the 'absorb' message above your head, caused by clueless level 70 gankers who have never heard of damage over time spells, and sprint away. Setup is not to be underestimated either. One of the big benefits of hemo as well is that you can basically use any slow MH/fast OH weapon you find, without the need for respeccing.

I actually stunlock mobs so that I have zero downtime. The reasoning behind this is that I can do pretty much equal damage within a 5pt kidney shot as with a 5pt eviscerate, but in addition, I generate additional CP. It might be slower, but it removes downtime (even though it should be at 0 already with cannibalize/bandages). My cycle mostly goes like this: Cheap shot, hemo until five cp, kidney shot and keep hemo'ing or throw in an eviscerate if it finishes the mob. Yellow mobs tend to go down within or until 5 seconds after the kidney shot. Key is using your short cooldowns whenever available: Premeditation, damage trinket and shadowstep. A premeditation+cheap shot+initiative proc gives you an instant 5pt shadowstep eviscerate, which if it crits, eliminates the need for a follow up kidney shot. Remorseless attacks+shadowstep makes for a massively boosted first hemo/ghostly strike as well.

Instancing damage is not too shabby either, even though you'll be out of stealth 95% of the time. I can't stress the short cooldowns enough, they are significant damage boosts every time you use them.


I can imagine it being viable at 50 already, when you get shadowstep. It provides incredible mobility over annoying ledges and can often save you lots of time in detours. However, I wouldn't do it myself personally, as you are missing out on core talents to make it effective; ruthlessness, relentless strikes and malice. Respeccing at 58 makes you lack only relentless strikes, which you can get at 61, along with either murder or remorseless attacks.