Well I blew the dust off of my warrior, he has been parked since 43. Nice guy he is, dual wield fury is where I took him. However the contrast between leveling him and my recent enhancement shaman is almost night and day. His armory link is http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...igg&n=Shargoti

The warrior has two blue weapons, until 45 he was using the hand of righteousness and the Sword of Serenity from sm... Very similar setup to my dual wielding enhancement shaman; just sub out the sword obviously for some other blue item; bt the damage is completely different. I find it humorous that the armory "find an upgrade" feature will list quest rewards from the other faction.

Back to the point, the question I have, is where to go from here? I am currently following the suggestions in the previously linked warrior comparison. My question is...

How well has anyone used Protection for leveling a warrior? Is there a viable protection spec for leveling? I am interested in a change from dual wield fury because the comparisons to my shaman are just to hard to over look, the shaman simply mows through content with windfury, only getting into real trouble if 3+ mobs show up when down on health. The warrior does take a great beating but I think I am expecting too much from fury.

Spec for escapes from level 70 gankers? Seriously?

There is no "viability" in pre-70 rogues because a chimpanzee could be trained to ding 70 running 0/2/0. Combat/swords get you there faster (definitely) and subtlety gets you there funner (maybe).

My rogue did a little time as subtlety and went for these 41 points. The best part of a Subtlety build while grinding up is that you don't need to be picky about weapon types. If you're saying Subtlety is a fun build for a rogue alt I'm with you 100%. Cheat Death is fun if you like to gank. To escape from others, vanish+sprint should be enough and prep means they're always up. If you're getting a lot of mileage out of Cheat Death, I'd be more worried about a viable grinding spot than a viable talent spec.

I leveled my 70 warrior as Prot. It's actually painful (though that's a warrior thing, not a spec thing) until you pick up Shield Slam, but the revenge buffs (long ago) help a bit. You actually have a lot of survivability compared to other specs (I leveled a Fury warrior to 39 before), but you generally don't kill as fast, offset by lower downtime from higher durability.


As for a leveling spec, mine was
Tier 1: Tact. Mast, imp. Enrage (better versatility, ease of stance swapping helps killing power since you can mix the different stance abilities together at less/no rage cost)
Tier 2: Shield block - you're grinding with a 1h/shield at this point, and might as well have the tanking talents for later. (alternatively, go for toughness)
Tier 3: imp. Revenge, Last Stand, imp. Shield block. Imp. Revenge was great for soloing stunnable elites, and was the best part of being Prot over Fury. Not as big a deal after the leveling changes, but these talents help if you accidentally pull several adds. For leveling, you'd want Defiance over imp. Revenge for the Expertise bonus. (The talent was changed after I leveled to 70)
Tier 4: Imp Sunder, 2 points in toughness: Until I got shield slam, every fight was Sunder x5, +1~2 heroic strikes if I still had leftover rage. It's actually amusing how fast you can kill a caster mob with a 1h when it doesn't have any armor.
Tier 5: Conc. Blow, 4 free points: Conc. Blow helps even more with control/soloing elites. I put my free points in iShield Bash (PvP Prot ... heh) and Toughness.
Tier 6: 1H spec: +10% damage, no brainer.
Tier 7: Shield Slam, Focused rage, 1 free point. Shield Slam is great as an rage dump instant, focused rage is also awesome for all the abilities it helps. I put the free point in toughness
Tier 8: Vitality: +10% Str, another no brainer.
Tier 9: Devestate: You can now take sunder armor off your hotkey bar.


For leveling/grinding, there's no need to put any more points in Prot after you pick up Devastate. Other things... I generally used DW for single targets and swapped to 1h/shield for multiple targets; Until I got shield slam, I used Sunder as my main "attack". After you pick up shield slam, you can stick to 1h/shield for a little bit (it'll have better killing power and durability than DW for a bit) and then go back to DW when you have devastate. (or you can stick to 1h/shield)

Downtime is controlled by your health loss - interrupt casters, use Demo shout and T-clap as you can, pick -1/2 level mobs for faster killing. You can have respectable killing speed as Prot after you get to the bottom of the tree. In the middle of the tree, it's not as good, but at least you're harder to kill (relative to other warrior specs... avoid pulling stupid stunts other classes can get away with).

I've continued trying out Mutilate as my rogue, and I'm totally convinced that it's just as viable as combat for leveling, at least in the 60+ range. I'm using Grand Marshal's Dirk and the dagger from the Ring of Blood quest chain, and I find that I have far less downtime than I did as combat swords using Grand Marhsal's Longsword and Footman's Longsword. I can take down mobs and only take between 0 and 3 hits per mob depending on how well I time my energy regen, etc. I do find that I miss the utility of Blade Flurry for taking down multiple mobs, but I can do 2 mobs just as easily as 1, since I can sap 1, kill the other, then mutilate-gouge-mutilate the other one to start that fight with 5 combo points every time, and then eviscerate or envenom and its usually dead. As far as poisons go, I tend to roll with double deadly poison because the extra damage is nice, as is the ability to use envenom, but I'll occasionally do double wounding because it won't break gouge, and still does some damage. However, since I've gotten reasonably good at timing my gouges right after a DP tick, I can use DP and still pull off a gouge-mutilate some of the time.

As far as gear goes for mutilate leveling, there are some relatively easy to obtain daggers from quests in Terrokar Forest. I grabbed Akuno's Blade from the quest Escaping the Tomb, which can be easily done with 2 people or soloed if you're patient. I also grabbed Shani's Crysknife from The Big Bone Worm, part of a quest chain that, again, can be easily done with 2-3 people, or soloed if you're lucky. If you plan ahead, you could grab the Grand Marshal's Dirk (or the horde equivilant) at level 60 and either grab another dagger that will quickly be replaced or get a second Grand Marshal's Dirk, as they outdo any outland dagger prior to level 65. At level 65, get a big group of friends together and do The Ring of Blood, as the quest rewards from that are vastly superior weapons for everyone. All of the rest of my gear stayed exactly the same as it was when i was combat swords, although I did start chosing crit over hit when selecting quest rewards and gems.

I leveled as mutilate from 60-70 when TBC came out, and you can pretty much eliminate taking any damage by putting crippling on your OH. This lets you kite for a couple yards after your opening CS-Mut and regenerate to around 70 energy. Then KS+Mut+Mut usually will finish off whatever you're killing. I also ground out Consortium exalted on the mobs in Netherstorm (before the etherum quests were patched in) this way. I barely took any damage, and my killing speed was limited only by the CS cooldown.

Is mutilate (or Assassination tree in general) viable as a main leveling tree pre-60?

This is how I would re'lvl a hunter. I went MM from the beginning but then I wasn't aware of the things I' know now.

1-9 you just go
at 10 you get your pet and you make him strong
10-14 extra HP
15-17 Thick hide more armor
18-19 Imp Revive pet, your pet will die and you better get it up fast
20-21 Pathfinding for faster running
22-24 unleashed fury, more dmg on pet
25-29 imp mend pet and ferocity, as you see needed on healing - critting
30 intimidation Stun and extra threat
31-32 bestial discipline more focus = more special attacks
33-34 spirit bond = you don't want to stop for eating/bandaging
35-36 ferocity more crit
37-39 frenzy more speed is always good
40-41 animal handler mount speed
42 bestial wrath uber pet
43-44 ferotious inspiration more dmg for you and him
45-49 serpent swiftness, more speed is more dmg
50 the beast within

After that you can go however you want. There is no respeccing needed.

Fill out some more in the BM tree for fulling out the spare talents and grabbing focussed fire.
Go to MM tree for some crit on your weapon
Go to survival for range, more dmg, traps, more HP...

Change between pets so you always have the best rank of claw, bite, gore, whatever at your disposal.
Basically your pet will do the job for you. He does more dmg then a rogue and has more survivability and threat then a tank. He's the mean machine you are the healer, feeder, sidekick who also tries to do dmg

This is going back a bunch of pages when you guys were talking about prot paladins and leveling. I'd like to chime in with a few of my personal experiences.

I just hit 60 with my Paladin this weekend and respeced to protection. The spec is pretty standard.

I collected any of the "of the Champion" gear I could get my hands on. I'll be fully decked out in Champion gear at level 63 (minus a neck and two rings which I'll be wearing at 68). There's a pretty easy quest for [Landslide Buckler], toss a spike on it and you're good to go.

Once you hit 62 start grinding out the Sporeggar rep for [Petrified Lichen Guard]. Also, best spelldamage mace for leveling that I've found is from Blood Furnace [Diamond-Core Sledgemace] or the [Spellfire Longsword] from the Slave Pens. Your next upgrade comes at 68 from the Crypts.

Anyway, I was able to tank BF and Ramps no problem with PUGs with almost zero CC. I'm able to do quests incredibly well, and fast (solo). Remember those Zeth'gor quests? Tons of mobs with a fast respawn rate, I'm able to gobble up 3-6 mobs at once and live to continue the quest. No more walking in and carefully taking out mobs one at a time.

I'd say that I'm incredibly durable and my single mob kill rate is slower than ret, which I'm ok with. My survivability is off the charts (for my level), and it's a unique way of playing. Far different than kill one mob, move on, etc. It's an enjoyable experience.

P.S.
Spellcasting mobs arn't that big of a deal as some people are claiming. As long as they are equal or below your current level (or gear threshold) you can take one or two at a time with your melee mobs. It's especially easy with the Blood Elf racials. It actually comes in handy at times.

If you don't want to rely on drops, there's a [Blade of Retribution] available from the level 63 Terrokarantula quest.

If you're Alliance, there's also the [Vibro Sword] from a level 65 Blade's Edge Mountain quest.

I leveled my rogue as Assassination, but I stopped at 40 points, then started putting points in Combat. Leveling went fast, but of course, rogues would kill reasonably fast even with a 0/0/0 spec.

I didn't bother picking up Mutilate because of the requirement that you be behind the target. I don't want to work when leveling! I'd rather just mindlessly spam SS then finish up with Slice and Dice/Evis while watching TV or something.

My killing speed was noticeably slower when I had to kill mobs that were immune to poisons. If I had to do it again, I'd probably level Combat.

On another note, does anyone have any experience with Disc smite-priest leveling at 60-70? Or is shadow just plainly the only viable leveling spec?

I loved leveling as Mutilate for the first few levels of TBC (using mostly naxx/aq) gear, but as the levels dragged on its power seemed to greatly diminish as my critical strike continued to decrease. This may very well be different now considering mutilate gets a bonus 15% critical strike. If you enjoy the style, then by all means spec mutilate.

Combat to me is still faster and Blade Flurry/AR a camp of 3-4 mobs down is just so valuable when leveling. Not to mention that quests which are typically meant for a group of 2-3 can sometimes be soloed as a heavy combat rogue. It is a far more boring play style as opposed to Mutilate though, so again pick what you enjoy.

When WoTLK comes out I am seriously contemplating going heavy sub for leveling. ShS is simply amazing for mobility. Whether this be making your way quickly to the next mob or skipping sections altogether. The decrease energy cost in CS is very valuable when chain pulling as it still allows you to do heavy damage while keeping your target locked down, resulting in very little downtime. It also is far superior to combat when you take into account the PvP that is going to happen while leveling. Getting jumped as a heavy combat rogue or trying to stop people from camping you without some CD's up is very frustrating.

I levelled from 64 onwards after speccing down as far as PI in the Disc tree and picking up the relevant smite boosting talents, and trying to get as much +crit as I could for the extra smite proc and I would say the difference in how long it takes to kill mobs compared to shadow is pretty minimal. With the old version of PI and two damage trinkets you could have a large amount of questing time with one of the three active (not sure how the new version of PI compares).

The main difference is the amount of down time involved, it's thirsty work smiting things to death and if I remember correctly I was having to drink after every 5 or 6 mobs (with fiend on CD continuously) where as with shadow it's rare you have to stop.

I actually leveled my rogue alt as mutilate and found it was pretty good for killing. Even in the random green quest rewards he wore a fight with a mob typically consisted of a cheap shot and mutilate, waiting for some energy to regenerate, a kidney shot followed by two more mutilates, and then an envenom or eviscerate to finish the mob off. The only mobs that typically weren't dead by that point were poison immune, and with [Essence Infused Mushroom] equipped my downtime was practically non-existent until the 69-70 range.

I tried out combat spec a few times as well but found it less effective in the kind of stats quest reward greens offered.

61 to 70.

Invoker gear helped a lot. I actually had points in Spirit Tap to ease some of the pain. Mana burn is similar to mages. Biggest problem I had with that build was all the damn interrupt capable mobs.

I bounced back and forth between smite and shadow during 61 to 70. I liked them both but the smite build was much better for grouping with friends as I didn't have to go out of form to cast a quick heal. Solo was a toss up at times but that may be because I wasn't that good of a shadow priest. (and boy will those damn head butting deer and hoof stomping clefthoofs in nagrand drive you nuts)

I recently leveled a warrior to 70 as Fury. Did both 2H fury and dual wield along the way, just for the hell of it.

The main argument for leveling warriors Fury is Sweeping Strikes. Sweeping Strikes is the second best leveling talent a warrior can take (second only to Cruelty, although Precision is up there.) Multimob encounters go from potion chug and pray to routine.

Engage 2-3 mobs -> Demo Shout -> Tclap -> Zerker -> wait for 75 or more rage -> pop sweeping strikes, then WW and queue cleave -> spam cleave, BT if you have extra rage.

The trick is waiting for at least 75 rage before popping SS, so you can unload WW and cleave almost instantly. Watch the numbers ricochet between mobs! You can increase the length of your life by staying in Battle Stance, and you can further increase your survivability by popping Retaliation, but most of the time staying in Zerker after you get the tclap off is the way to go, due to how wonderful SS is with WW.


Also, another argument for Fury is keeping Cruelty maxed without having to either respec at 40 for your level 40 talent, or (shudder) go without. You want Cruelty. Always.

With Arms, you're basically forced to take Deep Wounds, which, while a decent DPS boost, breaks Intimidating shout. Intimidating shout is an important "OH SHIT" ability, and using it in concert with a stopattack + bandage macro will allow you to survive just a little longer.

I think the point is the instant attack and the increase in damage to your auto-attack from Cleave - the fact that both hit multiple mobs just makes it even cooler.

I have an old mage alt from pre-TBC sitting at level 60 that I sometimes think about dusting off. Most of the mage levelling discussions seem to focus in on pre-60 talent choices, but what about post-60? Fire, frost, is one definitely better? Or does it come down to preference? Do you spec deep, as in 40+ points, into the spec you choose? Is there any merit at all in putting 18 in arcane for arcane meditation to help with downtime? Does getting ice lance at 66 mandate a respec to frost? I've asked a few mage friends about these things and have gotten a difference answer from each of them, which only serves to confuse me further.

Also, gear choices - "of the invoker" seems good, but if I loaded up on those items they all have 0 stamina and it seems I would be laughably fragile.

I leveled my mage 60-70 as frost, and of course it's just down to personal preference. I had such low HP (2600 or so) at the start that fire was just plain impossible for me to level with.

"Of the Invoker" suffix puts far too much weight into spell crit, as do a lot of quest rewards. Spell crit is far too expensive a stat to focus 1/3 of an item's budget on unless the rest is pure spell damage. "Of the Sorcerer" is decent, but usually I found myself with quest rewards and a few dungeon pieces.

I leveled as deep Fire 60-70 with no significant problems, but that's a completely personal decision. Choose whichever you prefer, one's not particularly better than the other although frost might be a better choice on pvp servers.

Arcane Meditation is really only useful if you've got a bunch of high-end gear with spirit as well as int/stam/dmg.

Normally I would agree, but at equal levels the Invoker gear has the same or better +damage as the Sorcerer. Invoker gear gives up stamina, which honestly if I as a mage need more hit points on 60-70 leveling content I am probably dead already. IOW - if my bag of tricks don't get me out of it a few hundred hit points won't matter. So if I needed to fill a hole in my equipment list while leveling I tended towards crit for those classes I had talents requiring it.

Crit is not expensive when your talents specifically rely on it. Shaman Clearcast was an example, as was surge of light. Heck my frost mage gets double damage on crits so it pays to go for +crit or +stam. I found that using Invoker pieces when I could was very helpful. End of Game, well invoker/sorcerer don't come into play then, everything has some damn fancy pants name.

Has anyone had any experience leveling a Shaman as Elemental? I admit Enhancement is touted as THE premier leveling spec, but between my Paladin main and a Feral Druid alt, a guy can get tired of being melee all the time.

I can see speccing into it at 20 at the minimum, for Elemental Focus, coupled with twinking tricks like Mystic Spellthread on white pants and as much (Nature) spell damage as I can grab off the AH, but how does it actually play?

Do Lightning Bolts cast fast enough that I can just sling them away, or would Frost Shock kiting produce better results?