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Old 07/07/08, 4:05 PM   #301
dblaikie
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Khadgar
Originally Posted by Blacksen View Post
The Warglaives are fantastic weapons, but are they so fantastic that you clear all of BT just in the hope that they might drop?
While this diverges even further from the main topic of this thread, I think it's an interesting question. Beyond that though - you need to value how useful the item will be to you or your guild. To justify where your guild should spend time raiding (farming versus progression, etc) which is only very important as you transition from one raid instance to another (prior to that you have no choice but to farm the bosses to reach your progression bosses) requires knowledge of the drop rate, and some measure of the benefit to the raid.

While it's a bit too fuzzy to ever actually put a number on "raid benefit" and such a number depends on the encounter(s) you are attempting, it'd be fun to try to justify raid time in a more systematic manner. This kind of reasoning is the same one I would use to justify not farming Gruul for [Dragonspine Trophy] if you could instead run a couple of groups through ZA. Time V relative benefit. It doesn't matter if an item is best in game, it only matters how good it is compared to other things you could get with that time investment.

Granted, anyone with enough playtime will attempt to exhaust all possible sources of benefit to their character even at extremely inefficient levels.

Another element of this is, of course, buying a raid ID from someone else. Granted buying an 8/9 BT ID isn't likely, but buying a 5/6 SSC or 4/5 MH ID isn't unheard of. This substantially increases the benefit/time ratio.

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Old 07/07/08, 4:10 PM   #302
dblaikie
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Khadgar
Originally Posted by Anedris View Post
But if you add Sunwell back in things do assuredly change - there comes a point where you decide that you will get more out of another progression day than you will out of clearing BT for all those last remaining items that refuse to drop.
Well if you take a static situation. Sunwell exists, BT exists, you've cleared all your farmable content in Sunwell. You can choose to either spend the rest of the week on progression attempts in Sunwell, or some/all of that time farming BT to make next weeks attempts easier.

In that situation the motivation to farm BT never changes until you actually get loot. If the only thing that has a significant impact on your sunwell progression attempts is the presence of more warglaives and you decide that that presence is significant enough compared to the drop rate that it's worth farming BT then you keep farming BT until you get enough glaives to tip the balance. Even if you get ridiculously unlucky and they never drop, your reward/investment calculation remains constant and so you should keep farming BT.

The amount of time you spend changes nothing. The only thing that would change your decision would be if you actually got new gear that tipped the balance, or if new/different content was released that changed the equation in some other way.

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Old 07/07/08, 4:55 PM   #303
alienangel
Bald Bull
 
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Draenei Hunter
 
Eredar
Originally Posted by Tanoh View Post
Changing the GUID doesn't mean we'll get new loot though. It might, but we won't know until Blizzard tells us how they're doing in detail. And I doubt that will ever happen.

The loot for all bosses, regardless if they respawn or not, could be decided upon instance creation and stored on the server tied with an instance ID or raid ID.

There's just way too many possibilities and no way to test them.
Perhaps I'm just remembering a dream, but I could swear there have been times pre-TBC where a raid boss has respawned and been killed twice by the same people during the same reset. This was obviously before GUIDs were visible, but did they drop the same loot both kills? Should something like that happen again, it would potentially afford a nice chance to test.

In TBC, I believe the first Vashj kill also had her respawn immediately upon death, which would have been another chance to test, if the raid had been in any mood to kill her again.

Also if a server ever gets a rollback like it did a couple of times pre-TBC due to item duping, and it happens to rollback a boss you killed, that again would afford a chance to test (although given that the instance would probably soft-reset during the time the server was down, that just introduces another possible place loot could be regenerated).

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Old 07/08/08, 9:36 AM   #304
 Penguin
Not Enough Rage.
 
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Ehandel
Tauren Warrior
 
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We've bugged Aran a few times before (~3), when he died to dots just as the poly went off. His door stayed locked and after a soft-reset we had to re-kill him. Each time we got different loot than the original kill.

There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake

I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai

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Old 07/08/08, 12:59 PM   #305
Aeoliana
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Stormrage
I dont mean to rain on the parade but honestly do you think blizzard would be stupid enough to encrypt a mobs loot table into its GUID? Something that anyone can sample? I understand that trying to link an item via Atlas or another addon parses the server db and is therefore a more viable means to determining what loot is on what mob but still. To me it seems highly doubtful that anything pertaining to loot has any attachment to client side functionality. I would think that the information would be stored on the server and on the server alone because there is no need for it anywhere else, no one needs to know what that mob has in its belly until the mob dies. The only thing a client needs is information from the server telling them the item ID to show in their loot window. Like someone mentioned in an earlier post the most probable way to find out what Illidan is going to drop is to spawn him and then crack blizzards db and retrieve the loot list. All the GUID would do is point you towards what mobs loot list you want to steal. Its just a way of identifying your raid's Illidan from the other 100's of spawned Illidans.

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Old 08/03/08, 2:38 PM   #306
Druidude
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ragnaros (EU)
Originally Posted by Kulaar View Post
I dont think you can link items if they are still in the stomach of a boss.

Sry nice try

Our current theory is by the way that the worser the kill the better the loots! Discuss!
when we recieved our first warglaive offhand(we had 2 in a row:P)
it was a kill where the tank died in around 12% and the flame tanks had to tank it with shield wall or w/e until he died, we actually had a rogue evasion tank and a fury warr to use a shield and shield wall just to buy time.
oh wait thats the 2nd offhand i believe.
first one was a nice kill, but then when he died we realised that the parasites were out of control, and while the ML managed to automaticly give the glaive to a fury warr we all died and had to run back to get the rest of our loot :P

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