SecSolidus

Brutallus isnt a hard encounter to understand. As soon as you got your positions sorted and succesfully tank switch a couple of times. And the burns are being healed up without deaths, including induvidual movement. Go full out. Use the 50% marker as an indication of everything going well.

Generally your dooming your raid with a wipe every time you pull without full consumable usage. So in the end its just one less thing which could potentially wipe your raid on Brutallus.

Solidus Guildmaster of < Security >

This valorous visitation of a bygone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

 

Halle

We were dry running at around the 30% mark before going in fully buffed and blowing all CD's. Only our tanks and healers were using consumables.

You should go all out if you are getting consistently around that level.

I used to be a hardcore raider, now i'm a hardcore father.

 

Pilence

We've been trying Brut for a few evenings, and I've had some issues with burn healing. Basically the main question is how to heal the people with 3 meteor debuffs, especially when you get, for example, 2 people like that getting burn one after another? I've been trying to spam everything I have (all hots, regrowths, both instants, adding another healer on burn), but it usually ends up with at least one person dead. Do I have to improve something, or just let locs stone such a person, or have only people who can remove burn (palas, mages) soaking (we currently use 2 soaking groups), or something else... I've really been struggling with this, so appreciate any help.

 

Skulli

Meteor slash should run out way before the burn starts to hurt. If they refresh meteor while burn is active then its their own fault.

 

Tojara

I take it you know that you alone can't keep up someone with burn towards the end of the debuff and that you need help in doing so.

Initially we assigned a Shaman I believe to aid the Druid in healing the last 10 seconds or so of burn. The problem with this was that this Shaman wasn't always necessarily in range of those who received the burn and this would cause deaths. So we took a holy priest out of one of the soaking groups and allowed her to hang back with the melee (and the druid). This resulted in no deaths due to range errors and she could still perform her healing assignment properly, only helping the druid in the closing moments of the burn.

I think that having two healers floating around the back not taking the slashes helped us immensely. We have all of our range DPS evenly divided into two separate soak groups so removing one ranged from each of these groups doesn't really cause meteor slash to do that much more damage.

Other then that the fight seemed tuned rather tightly, and totally looking forward to doing it once again next week.

[e] - In regards to using full consumables when practicing the boss.

Unfortunately you can't really do this as a tank or healer as it won't allow you to practice the encounter for the full duration. We did a few dry runs (meaning DPS wasn't using full consumables, no BL's and that sort of thing) to see where we stood. Once we hit the enrage timer with ~25-30% of the bosses health remaining we decided to use full consumables at that point.

I am sure you could reach some 'middle-ground' between the two, in which people simply use flasks at the very least to better gauge what is true of a 'real' attempt. I would however, not keep popping things like scrolls & demonslaying elixirs when first learning the encounter (especially considering how difficult these items are to find/farm).

Really if you can hit the enrage then your tank healing is pretty much worked out. At that point it comes down to your raid composition (synergy), how geared your DPS is and lastly, a little luck with who gets burned.

 

Nie

^. The two druids were HoTing the tanks but their primary focus was Burn targets.

7 Healers worked a lot better than I thought it would, and pretty much all I did was spam Greater Heal 7 and pray to the Gods whenever I needed to pot that the GCD wouldn't kill our tanks. Metro was a little off in assignments, we didn't have two shaman on raid healing, we only had 1. The other was supposed to heal the Tanks primarily and if our raid healer received burn, the two switched roles.

I was inside the 5sr probably 95% on this fight, we were only given a shadow priest (no resto shaman), but mana didn't really seem to be much of an issue (it was tight, but taking 2 pots and 1 shadowfiend I was at about 3k-4k mana when he died).

 

Clandestine

Quaffing a potion does not cause a global cooldown.

 

• Mjollnir

Yes, this is a composition question.
What are guilds doing with their hunters? Given a specific spec, in which groups are these individuals being placed?

 

Sparkfist

Has anyone had a problem with judgements falling off too often in this fight, because of the massive amount of debuffs stacking up on him ? We brought a ret paladin for this boss to keep the judgements up , but they just keep getting pushed off constantly, and other paladins have to take risks to reapply the JoW at least (which resulted in deaths at times).

It's quite irritating that judgements getting refreshed by Crusader Strike every 6 seconds get pushed off anyway..
Is there any way around this, like getting rid of the less effective debuffs, or is it something everyone has to deal with on this boss ?

 

Merple

Somebody played Zork, or other, text based RPG back in the day

-In our country, any CBC reporter can dream of becoming head of state.

 

khel

You should really look at your overall raid composition and plan what buffs/debuffs are allowed and prioritize as such. It's really easy to go over the 40 debuff limit if you have an affliction lock and 2 shadow priests in the raid for instance, without restricting some other debuff usage.

 

• Morsexy

We noticed our debuffs falling off several attempts in, and we tried to find 4-5 we could drop such as off hand poisons, flame shock, etc. This worked well the rest of the attempts and kill for us. It seems that being so close to the limit through the use of the synergistic raid debuffs means you may have to cut back on some "dumb" debuffs.

Edit: I noticed the post above, and we do run with 2 Spriests, 1 Afflcition Warlock and 3 other locks, so debuffs do stack up.

 

delling

Rogue!

 

richard

What debuffs would you tell people to not use?

Personally I was thinking deadly poison, rupture and flame shock, but other than that I don't know.

 

sp00n

Good question, I'd like to hear some suggestions as well, since I know next to nothing about debuff dependency of other classes.
For rogues, dropping Deadly Poison in favour of Instant Poison results in a DPS loss of 38.5 and changing your cycle from Rupture to Eviscerate in another 22.5 DPS loss, netting in a total loss of 60 DPS for these two debuffs.
Not that much (I especially expected Evi to do less damage), but on such a tight fight it might still be too much, depending on what other debuffs net how much DPS (or loss if not present).

 

Cybelirrae

We had not noticed too many problems with Judgements, until on the night of our 2nd kill. We decided to go with 8 healers (instead of the 7 we used on our 1st kill) and given the DPS I had available I brought in a 4th rogue. The judgements seemed to be falling off a lot (even with only 1 SP). We asked the 4th rogue to swap to instant from deadly and the judgments were staying up again.

 

Illundai

Well, it depends. I think we just decided to go all out on consumables the moment we hit the enrage a couple of times in a row. If you're running a semidecent setup (which you seem to be if you can get to 30% without consumables) then it should be no problem.

 

sp00n

Seems like a stupid question from a rogue, but does each Deadly Poison count as its own debuff? I know they are shown as only one single debuff on the mob's list, but do they internally occupy one slot per rogue?

 

Bonktwo

It's 1 Deadly Poison debuff for each rogue using it, the stack count doesn't have anything to do with 40 debuff limit.

 

• Snowy

We definitely had this issue on our first time there -- running with 2 shadow priests and an afflock. We had the rogues switch to IP, and the problem went away. On our kills we have no afflocks and just 1 shadowpriest, so the rogues could switch back to DP. IIRC Gurg mentioned on vent that we were running around 33-34 debuff slots on those nights so an afflock + extra shadowpriest would definitely have put us over 40.

If it's still tight, just make sure JoTC and JoW are up. You don't really need light for this fight.

Paladin: Pyla
Mage: Pylah

 

• Latito

Each rogue's stack counts as 1 debuff slot and they show up that way too. Have you never noticed that there are 2-3 deadly poison stacks on a boss? Either way, each rogue will be using 2 debuff slots, unless your raid asks them to switch over to Instant and/or Evis.

 

sp00n

Ok, then it's only DebuffFilter showing DP as one single debuff.
I never managed to cope with the normal 40 slot list on a mob.

 

Strifen

We bring two hunters, one is survival and the other is BM. They were a little out of place as we don't run a designated hunter group that some guilds do so we just ended up putting them in the MT group which looked like.

BM Hunter
Survival Hunter
Resto Shaman for AGI totem
Prot War
Prot War

Group synergy here wasn't all too bad thinking back on it.

 

Gokey

We run a pretty basic 3 hunter setup for just about everything and haven't changed anything for this fight. 3 Hunters (2 BM, 1 Survival), Feral druid (tanking), and Resto Shaman. Hunters are very capable of doing high damage on this fight (2200-2600 DPS). Ultimately, It depends on the kind of raid setup you're using. If you're running a ret paladin and multiple shamans, give the hunters the group of their choice and they should shine.

Our hunters are competitive -- but that doesn't mean yours will be. Your group placement should be dependent on their average performance on previous encounters. If your hunters are constantly top damage on other fights, don't shaft them. If they never break top 10, the long end of the short is that you can put a hunter in just about any DPS group and they should be a mid-range damage dealer.

With 1 hunter you might want to consider throwing him in group 1 with a resto shaman with grace of air totem (as long as you have a tank that generates sufficient TPS). 77 AGI is another 20 AP for all your melee. If you're using a solo hunter raid, he better be survival, have imp hunter's mark, and have an owl.

 

Tempestra

On our first kill last night, we had - and I kid you not - 4 warlocks and 3 shadow priests. Debuffs were a nightmare to manage. Our Ret paladin was basically forced to watch Brutallus' debuffs and call "JoW down" on vent every 30 seconds. We had our affliction lock spec out of UA and get ruin - we had our rogues use IP and evis - our druid tank held off some of his debuffs I think - our night elf shadowpriest didn't use starshards?

I hope your problem isn't as bad as ours, but you can to some extent manage debuff control without totally sacrificing performance.