pikapewpew

We already had a lot of threat issues. Most of them were due to "clever" warlocks who didn't care about Omen etc. As a mage, we always managed to deal with it (invisibility, stopcasting, iceblock, BoP FTW !).

Aggro wasn't a real problem except on RoS P3 where we deceided to give BL to the MT for the pull. Also, we never had to face such a DPS race...

I'll ask them to look about it. Thank you for your answer.

 

Baalzaman

Gorefiend is neither here nor there as a benchmark I feel. On one hand its a short fight, 3 minutes or less, so bloodlust has a correspondingly greater impact on raid dps as a result. But on the other hand the dps loss from people getting ghosted and the spell pushback from the doom blossoms means a fair loss in potential dps.

Only real way to know is to get to Brutallus, pot to the gills and try it and see

Oh and in response to the above poster, our main issue (we have killed Brutallus 3 times now) with aggro has been hunters - very stacked groups, I think they go all gog-eyed at the dps they are doing and forget to feign

 

• Intermission

I do around 2000 TPS without Salv as Survival Hunter on Brutallus, with bursts up to 2.5k (Lust or Rapid, trinket procs and crit streaks). BM hunters would do even more. So yes, hunters obviously have threat issues if the first FD resists. We take a chill pill and hover below tanks for the next 30 seconds until we can FD again. If THAT one resists... we begin to rage in hunter chat, but that is rare.

If your hunters are pulling aggro beyond the first 1:45, then one of two things are happening:

1) They are not feigning (???), or
2) More likely, they are getting invisible FD failures. Not resists, just 'fails'. They aren't in the combat log nor on the error screen, and Omen thinks they worked. However they didnt, and you really didnt loose your threat. Your hunters probably already know about it, and there are quite a few hunter threads that discuss it on EJ (and many whine threads on the WoW forums). There are techniques people use to try to minimise failed FDs:
- Let the animation play out or let the bar tick for a couple seconds.
- Break FD with a skill/spell, not movement.
- FD constantly, even if you had many non-resist FDs before it. This does seem like a no-brainer, but there are many reasons why hunters wouldnt. Firstly, so many encounters have threat wipes anyway (Illidan is fucking hell for hunter aggro, as is Leo, Supremus, etc), so you cant actually FD multiple times, if at all. Secondly, is the fact that FD'ing is a loss of ~4k damage each FD. Not huge, but not something you would do just for the sake of it if you were confident of your threat level (especially on a fight like Brutallus, trying to break DPS records. 4k damage every 30 seconds is 133dps!)

 

Tyrian

Correct me if im wrong - but my understanding of this is that Teron doesnt really have low armor for the reason many imply (That hes some sort of armor-exeption for a boss etc). His armor is normal for a lvl 73 Caster class mob. Similarly, Brutallus doesnt have 'high armor', but rather normal armor for a lvl 73 Warrior Class mob. It is just semantics, however.

Your brutallus raid will probably have 16 or 16.5 dps. (16.5 is if you run with a warrior+druid combo, the druid brings an extra 0.5). Just make a accurate average of what you know your DPS are capable of (in synergised groups) and add it up.

In my opinion , for a BT guild with Brutallus on the horizon - make sure your hybrids are strong. Enhancement Shaman, Shadow priests, ret paladin, BF Warrior etc. Of course it all varies between guilds, but strong hybrids are a huge addition to the Brutallus raid setup. Guilds stuck in the pre-tbc era of thinking ("Bring 6 mages and 6 rogues for dps! I hate ret pallys/shadow priests lolz") will end up regretting it later.

 

Zalein

We were doing around 26-27k on Gorefiend when we killed Brutallus (and only 7 Illidan kills to our name). Basically it depends on how much effort your guild will put into it at Brutallus.

Checklist of win:
- 4x leatherworkers in each DPS group
- Demonslaying elixirs
- Chugging haste/destro/insane strength pots
- Scrolls
- Awesome raid/party synergy

To be fair, both of our kills have been well into the enrage timer, the first at 6:08 and the second at 6:20 (lol). Speaking of which, make sure to discuss a strategy for the enrage. We first have a paladin taunting at range who then bubbles. The tank in the meantime runs to as far back to the other side of the room. Whoever is top of the threat after the tank runs over to another side. Then the feral druid taunts and runs in travel form, and so on and so on. You can actually live quite a while into enrage if you plan it. But anyways, it's doable.

 

Ragnor

Wasn't it tested extensively and found that currently demonslaying elixirs don't have any effect vs Brutallus, or was that ranged ap vs demons only?

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

www.retpaladin.com

 

Mearis

26k is far far far too low. I would estimate that a raid capable of killing Brutallus would do well over 30k+ raid DPS on Teron.

Our BM hunters go from 2.2 k on Brutallus to 2.7k on Teron.

 

Bullshot

Currently Demonslaying Elixirs provide only melee AP against demons which is why hunters have no reason to use them. In the upcoming 2.4.2 patch however, they will provide ranged AP as well so hunters can use them effectively from that point on.

 

• Daboran

Not true - we never exceeded 28k on Teron before we killed Brutallus.

You cannot judge Brutallus dps by Teron, even should you take an identical raid to both - the encounters are too dissimilar. Brutallus is far more dependent on group setup/execution and Teron will vary wildly depending on who gets Ghost.

 

Mearis

Did you ever attempt to stack DPS on Teron though?

 

• Daboran

Even with an identical raid to Brutallus, we get wildly varying dps

You just can't use Teron as a deciding factor in whether you should try Brutallus.

Each guild will have a decent idea of how hard their dps actually tries. Sure if you struggle to make 22k all-out on Teron then you are in trouble, but if you consistently get 25k+ and know there's room for improvement then go for it.

Our raid leader was convinced that only having killed Illidan at the end of January and only getting 26k max on Teron we weren't geared enough. We killed Brutallus in two nights, most of which was spent sorting out healing and group composition then just waiting for it to "click" for people.

To the OP: You have 26k. If you know there's room for improvement (perfect Bloodlust/Drum rotations, Scrolls or just hitting the buttons harder) then go try Brutallus in my view

 

ozweepay

Thanks.

We were at 26.2k on Teron with normal raid buffs (flasks, oils, and food). We're having several raiders reroll LW and we're banking up destro, demon, etc, pots.

A friend I trust said not to venture into Sunwell until we have 5-10 Illidan kills. We have only one (as of last Sunday) so we'll probably farm a bit more and maybe put Hyjal back on the calendar to get more ppl with 4pc T6.

Thanks for all the replies...

 

Graul

Does anyone know if Burn actually generates rage on Warriors? On all of our attempts Wedensday that lasted a good while and I did not get burned my DPS was approximately the same. On the attempts where I did get burned it seemed to be higher and it also looked like in the later ticks my rage bar was almost always full. On our kill last night I was burned twice and while our kill was 23 seconds faster than our first, I ended up doing 219 DPS more and was burnt twice. I wasn't burnt at all on our first kill, but there are people claiming that burns do not generate rage because it's counted as self inflicted damage.

 

Bula

Venturing into sunwell and killing brutallus are two totally different things. While chances of you killing brutallus without the 10 illidan kills are low, it's not impossible. There is a lot of value in being inside sunwell and if your guild has killed illidan even but one time you are more then ready for clearing sunwell trash and killing it's first boss. Assuming you have raid time to dedicate to it. I wouldn't forgo BT after just one full clear for sunwell progression yet, but I wouldn't forgo sunwell trash clearing and kalecgos attempts either.

Without putting this thread too far off track, just a small example, by the time you clear trash packs in sunwell to kalecgos you will have undoubtedly netted enough gem drops to fund an entire week of progression. One useless seaspray emerald on the AH will net you enough gold to buy herbs to make dozens and dozens of haste and destro pots. I wouldn't throw away an opportunity at that just because of notions about gear checks on bosses you aren't going to be realistically attempting anyway.

 

Zenge

Indeed Bula, Encore only has 12 illidan kills and we were able to kill brutallus with an 8 healer setup 11 seconds into enrange. Lost two people to burn at 25% or so quickly got them up and did what we had to do. We have 0 glaives and very VERY bad luck when it comes to getting things off of bosses we need. Skilled players with a good synergistic raid with 5+ illidan kills should be able to get this done. As far as going into suwell with only 1 Illidan kill I would definately suggest it. Take 4 mages enjoy the random "best in game patterns/items" and start learning Kalecgos. I view this as a better use of time than going back for a Kael or Vashj kill.

Also Graul I cant confirm this from personal exp as I am not a warrior but i remember my fury warrior making a joke about wanting to get burn more so he could have more rage. So I would assume the answer is yes.

 

Axl_Stukov

Burn does not generate rage, much to my own rage.

 

aadric

We just had our first full raid on Brutallus. We hit the enrage when he was at 26% without full consumables or smart heroism/drums use. We also had an extremely imbalanced raid due to some absences (3 spookies, 2 ferals as DPS). So I'm not too worried about our DPS. We were having other problems.

We had a lot of tank deaths. There seemed to be literal 1-shots immediately after a stomp. We had 1 priest and 2 Palis healing the tanks exclusively and 2 shaman CH'ing the tanks exclusively. The Paladins are very under-geared. Is there any specific strategies/addons you use to time heals? It seemed like even though we would try to land our heals at different times relative to the stomp, eventually we'd all land our heal at the same time and the tank would die shortly after. We were having Pali's and the Priest using their big slow heals on the stomps. Our tanks were told to use some kind of cooldown before each Stomp.

We were using two spookies behind the melee to heal Meteor Slash. Each soak group had 7 people and spookies were trying to keep four of them up. However the spookies simply couldn't heal the damage fast enough and we had some deaths to the third Meteor Slash. We only have one Warlock and he was keeping up Curse of Shadows. I don't think any of our DPS had less than 10k health. The ranged DPS were too far from the tanks to get Chain Healed because of they didn't want to pull at 110% threat.

WWS: Wow Web Stats

We've been farming Illidan for several weeks and recently stopped running Hyjal to make time for Sunwell. We killed Kalecgos for the first time last week. Any advice?

 

◊ Bryne

What the fuck is a "spookie"?

 

• Astrylian

Shadow priest. (Never heard them called that myself, but have heard "Spook" once or twice, and fits based on what he described.)

 

Touf

...give Emptybert Ironshields. Ouch.

Ranged should be able to get chain heal at 130% range, just put them behind the healers. They have to get it.

Our healers use Forecast, you can also try Dorje's healing bars for timing.

Oh, and you might as well make your dps flask and pot up, your healers and tanks have to do it every time anyway.

 

aadric

That is weird I thought "Spookie" was pretty common. Obviously it is a Shadow Priest. Kancir and Partaria were the two behind the melee healing soakers. Grimmstone was in a soaker group.

I don't suppose it is possible to take an Ironshield Potion before the buff runs out and refresh it, therfore fooling WWS? 2 minute buff, 2 minute cooldown. I guess not.

 

◊ SSJones

Alright, I risk a lot of 'This has already been talked about' responses here, but this WWS log seems to indicate Brutallus is parry thrashing again. Is anyone else experiencing this? Log is broken into two links for comparison.

We were doing a 'learn to heal the fight' night, with DPS not buffing, etc - Forgive the rest of the WWS.

Brutallus's parries: Wow Web Stats

Brutallus's swings: Wow Web Stats

Very very frequently I see Brutallus getting 4 attacks in under a second, one second after a parry.

Have I missed some other ability of his, or is this really parry-thrashing?

Edited: To fix my run-on sentences.

I'm a dirt Torpedo!

 

erich

we started brutallus recently and we've been having some problems getting to enrage. our biggest problem is our tanks die from stomp +mh/oh hit. i'm not a healer, but according to our healers it happens within .5s and they can't get off a heal in that time.
we use a prot warrior and a feral druid. they get grace of air, stoneskin, devotion aura.

what are some ways to increase tank survivability?

i've read about the stoneshield, the trinkets, but is there anything else they can use?

 

Stolidus

There is a reliable and accurate timer for stomp with your boss mod of choice, so your healers can (and abs