Zidders

Yeah, i've heard a buddy of mine's guild uses one shaman burn healing.. he's got about 420 haste. @.@ I don't think with my current level of gear it's possible to solo burn heal, because in my max haste gear I only have about.. 146 haste I think. I was kind of dumb when I passed some haste pieces because I didn't want to spend the DKP at the moment. But that being said, i'm usualy aided in most situations, it's just a question for those rare occasion when the other healer happens to be blazed out of his mind and can barely function, and I fall behind because of some random spread burn, or a death due to meteor slash+burn.

How much haste would one want to shoot for for Brutallus and beyond?

 

Moriantum

Ok, I only read the first 14 pages of this thread so far, so please forgive me if this was answered some where between 14 and 32. I don't understand why the safe zone for the burn people is so far of a run in most strats. For example, on boss killers the graphic shows them running from the soaker group all the way around to almost behind Brut. Besides the risk of outranging one of your burn healers, you lose dps and healing while running. Since it only has a 2-3 yard range, why the need to have the burn zone so far away? I was thinking of putting it in between the two soaker groups.

 

Gofa

You can have one safe spot between your soaking groups. But make sure you move slightly up and down to avoid getting a meteor slash. For clarification thats what we use (sorry for my bad paint skills): our make-up

If you have burn and tank 1 has aggro, move up a bit so that you almost hug the upper soaking group. Once tank 2 taunts Brutallus, move down and vice versa.

There surely is a safe spot between these two groups where you wouldn't have to move at all, but meteorslash range is kind of huge so you better move a litte bit up and down than getting a meteorslash and die.

 

Anedris

It most assuredly does not only have a 2-3 yard range. It has an infinite range and is a 120 degree arc. You will not be able to fit it between the two soak groups.

You can reduce movement by having the soakers stand beside (instead of around) the tank and thus be closer to the safe zone, but this tends to make the typical "bounce chain heals off the tank for raid healing" strat less workable.

 

Moriantum

Well, even if you don't put the burn safe spot in the middle, do you ever have range issues with healers?

 

Dominus

We put our safe spot behind our melee, and our setup is very similar to Gofa's. We put our burn healing druid behind the melee full time, and we put on of our ghealing priests (full time tank duty) behind the melee as well. The paladin that helps on burns is on the front edge (closest to melee) corner of the top square (if looking a Gofa's diagram) so as to be in range of burn targets. Safe spot is behind the melee with the druid/priest.

 

gobbles

I may not have fully understood your layout, but it appears the taunt angle you need to use in order to get a safe spot between the tanks must be huge.

That might not in-of-itself be an issue, but when we tried to do something similar we found that the melee started getting a lot of parrys, which really hurt dps.

We ended up narrowing the taunt angle to as close as possible between the two tanks and have the soak groups positions themselves largely on the other side of each tank. This helps the melee a lot, and also allows your safe spots to come up in front of the melee.

 

Gellor

I've browsed through the thread but can't see anything related to my issue. We've just got to brutallus, and i've been asked to OH Thunderfury, rather than my Mountiing Vengence for the NR debuff. We usually have an Elemental shammie, Boomkin, enchance shammie and 2 rogues in our raid.

Is the dps that I will lose from OH TF going to be gained by these other classes that gain dps benefits from the NR debuff (Envenoms, Lightning Bolts, deadly poison ticks, shocks etc)?

 

Nakari

As far as I know, Brutallus has no special nature resistance beyond the inpenetrable 8 * Level above the caster, so using Thunderfury is absolutely useless, unless you somehow don't have a warrior with Improved Thunderclap and use it for the attack speed slowing effect.

 

Pitbuller

Which is bigger dps loss?
Dps warrior putting imp TC and dance stancing or oh TF?
Nature debuff is just joke.
But dps warrior putting demo + imp TC is big loss of dps when using two non warrior tanks.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Axanor

If you're using 2 Druid tanks, the fact that it's a Druid instead of a Warrior should easily make up for the lost dps.

 

phellan

A druid tank does roughly twice the dps of a warrior tank, I did 775 dps or so on our latest kill. However your dps warriors gets a lot lower since he has to sunder, demo and tc if you run with 2 druids.

 

Gellor

The raid leader has asked me to OH thunderfury purely for the NR debuff. Imp TC is not an issue. We have an arms warrior who supples the Imp TC.

 

Gofa

Sorry but your raid leader is an idiot.

 

coredumperror

The reduced nature resistance from the Thunderfury debuff is a giant waste of a debuff slot. Brutallus doesn't have any nature resistance, so the Thunderfury debuff does absolutely nothing besides pushing a more useful debuff off the end of the 40 debuff limit.

----------------------
My DPS Set
My Boss-Tanking Set

 

Blacksen

Some guilds do position the burn area between the soaker groups. It requires quite a bit more finesse to do it this way for multiple reasons:
- 1) Melee cannot be in front of the boss. Though Brutallus has no parry "attack" mechanic, he will still parry and cause a significant loss in DPS. Melee need to be behind the boss at all times and basically in a position to not move (Melee moving = loss of DPS and risk of burn spread).
- 2) Burn area is significantly smaller. Having it behind the boss / behind the melee creates a rather large burn area. One issue is that if you get 3 people with burn, the area between the two soaker groups won't be large enough to hold all three.
- 3) Any screw up leads to death. If you get a meteor slash re-application 12 seconds after you get Burned, you're probably going to die regardless of what # slash it was. A death in this fight is more than likely a wipe.

Really, I think it'd depend on how many melee you have. We used a full melee group and they needed enough room to spread out behind the boss. This basically eliminated any burn area between the two groups. If you're running with only 3-4 melee, it might be possible.

Few other tricks that we've learned:
- Make sure destruction warlocks use infernals. Infernals do NOT cause Demonic Sacrifice to go away. They are guaranteed to last for 5 minutes. It is a tiny difference, yes, but we've found it quite worth it.
- Make sure you're using elementals EARLY. If you ever hit the 20% mark, any "non-20%" cooldown should be used such as fire elementals, etc.
- At 35 seconds left (just after the first taunt), you should NOT be moving if you get burned.



Tricks for extending the enrage:
The 3rd meteor slash goes off right at the enrage for the SECOND second group. (So if tank A tanks first and tank B tanks second, tank B will get enrage+3rd slash at about the same time). We have our Tank A drink a swiftness potion (ironshield should just be coming off cooldown at minute 6) and sprint to the other side (near where Felmyst died). Tank pops last stand and shield wall and should be able to tank for 5 seconds. Paladin healer runs to opposite corner (where you jumped down to buff). Once Brutallus comes back to the raid, Paladin taunts and then immediately bubbles. Once taunt fades, Brutallus will move onto your DPS. Conveniently, the DPS is now all in front of Brutallus, which should spread out his first meteor slash damage enough that it won't kill anyone. Ret Paladin will BoP/Taunt on a Resto druid.

 

Pitbuller

Use Fire elementals before 4min mark. After enrage you can then drop earth elemental. Earth elemental can taunt and that will bought couple second more dps.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Blacksen

Ha, something funny that we tried Thursday night with outstanding results was using "lawlwell" (lightwell) in the Burn area.

For Brutallus, we have one of our CoH priests respec to imp D.S., so we picked up Lightwell for trying for our 2nd kill and learning the fight. (Our CoH Priests don't actually use CoH in this fight). It actually came extremely handy when used properly. People know exactly where the "burn area" is and where to run to, and the healing from the Lightwell in those last 10 seconds of burn is very significant.

Anyways, if anyone ever wanted a practical application of Lightwell, this would be the fight to use it on.

 

◊ Silmeria

Pretty sure any damage taken cancels the HoT from lightwell. Do people just spam the lightwell after each tick of burn? Or does burn not remove the lightwell HoT? Or does it not work at all and this was simply placebo?

 

Blacksen

Just looked at our WWS. It appears that Burn does break it on one tick, but people still got an initial 1.2k heal.

Might just be a placebo for correct positioning :-\ we also told people to be sure to click healthstone after lightwell. Lightwell did outheal our healthstones though.

 

Cathela

Wouldn't the optimal thing then be to have people click the lightwell between the last two ticks of the burn, since that's the point of greatest danger?

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Oakimoo

As far as I've seen (in our limited attempts) we treat it as a 180 degree wall, so if your two tanks are at a 90degree angle to each other, its impossible to get between the soak groups

Something like this:

 

Shha

If you use double druid , your Dps warriors definitely dont lose dps to "keep sunders up". In fact you get a huge dps boost because you can have a rogue keep imp expose. In fact, even that rogue will get a dps boost! - extra damage from the 475 armor penetration is more then what he loses from not having 100% rupture uptime. Everyone else in the raid will get a really substantial dps boost - well physical damage classes of course.

 

Calgar

I've gotta assume the dps warrior is throwing down thunderclap if you have 2 druids tanking. That would be your DPS loss right there.

 

• Latito

Not exactly true. At most Brutallus-capable gear levels, the rogue will lose anywhere from 0 to 15 dps. Its rarely a GAIN in dps for the rogue using imp EA. That said, a negligible dps loss for a single person resulting in a ~80-120 dps increase for every other physical dps.. not to mention the feral tank will be doing more personal dps than the prot tank. The only dps loss to consider is in the post above mine, having a dps warrior T-Clap. Even that shouldn't be as large as the gain your raid gets from imp EA.

Disbanded Recruiting!