Melthu

I haven't done this fight myself, so take this post with a massive grain of salt. However, it looks like your druid tank Aganor could be doing a couple more things to help you out, especially your healers.

Tank deaths seem to be your biggest issue, with only 2 attempts out of 13 or 14 (at least 1 and maybe 2 attempts appear to be mis-pulls) reaching his enrage. Over the course of the night Aganor used 5 Ironshield pots and 1 Barkskin. Aanar, in comparison, used 23 Ironshield pots. Neither appears to be using Nightmare Seeds, but it's possible that I just don't know what their name is in the combat logs.

Aganor also didn't maximize his dps for the last half of the night. For the first 7 or 8 attempts he switched to cat form to dps while Aanar was the tank, but he stopped shifting after that. That alone won't make up for 3% of Brutallus' health, but it will help.

 

Melthu

I know even less about rogues than I do about druids, but one thing I'm pretty sure is true of rogues is that they should never, ever let SnD drop. On your 3% attempt Blueminty let it drop twice, Zaniel let it drop 7 times, and Sieben let it drop 10 times. The other 2 attempts that I checked were similar. I'm not aware of any excuse for letting SnD drop, but a rogue would be better suited to answering that.

 

Blacksen

Looking at your best attempt:
Raid DPS: 24845
That's your problem. He really isn't killable at that low. You'll need to squeeze out at least 1k to get him down. Realistically, you'd need another 2-3k to guarantee a kill.

In terms of raid composition, two elemental shamans really is overkill. It'd be great if one of them could pull their weight as a raw dps class, but realistically they're not. Elemental shamans are not like blood-frenzy or survival hunters - they will only pull their weight in terms of effective dps with other skilled players. With several mages/warlocks below 1900 even with the elemental shaman, you'd be better off picking up another raw dps.

Want to know the difference in the 3 rogues? Blueminty lets Slice and Dice drop twice. Zaniel lets it drop 7 times. Sieben lets it drop 11 times. Purely a skill difference. They can go to the rogue thread here to read more on it, but really it should never be falling off. More slice and dice leads to more combat potency procs leads to more energy leads to more sinister strikes and better rupture uptime.

Lyerritch's dps is pathetic for his gear level. He needs more spell haste and to just really just generally cast more. Also doesn't drop an infernal, which he should be doing (Infernals are guaranteed to last at least 5 minutes and do not get rid of demonic sacrifice). Looking at other attempts, he did well. Why he suffered in your best one is beyond me.

Compare Lyerritch to Aggrohan. Obviously, the heroic MgT trinket isn't working for Aggrohan. He casts corruption quite a bit more, but the difference in damage is not even close to being overcome. Their shadow-bolt dmg difference is around 250k. Corruption dmg cuts down their damage difference to 170k. Corruption can't crit, and thus as a destruction warlock, it's almost useless. It's not worth the GCD it takes to cast, much less the mana it takes to cast. Really, this guy should almost be removed from your raid roster or forced to respec affliction (and hey, he's already gemmed all spell dmg anyway). A destruction warlock at this level doing less than 1500 is deplorable.

Want to know the difference between your mages and ours? Wow Web Stats That's our Brutallus kill last night. While your mages are casting 76/79 fireballs, ours are casting 95/99. Again, purely a skill thing here. They've gotta be able to juggle cooldowns and mana effectively. And what's with Wyndham? You are a fire mage - get SUNFIRE. No cloak enchant, no boot enchant, no chest enchant. Fail. Same thing on Zerodegreez? Subtley to cloak is a MUST. Sunfire is as good as an epic gem over just 40 spell dmg. You're in Sunwell, don't get cheap.

Æiry does very well and knows what he's doing. Popcicle looks like he needs more crit due to the amount that flurry is dropping off, but I could be wrong on that one (and his dps is in the "right area" for a Blood Frenzy warrior).

Brimbole... a BM Hunter doing sub 1500 dps in Sunwell... This is the epitomee of failure. Is he trying to use a 3:2 rotation while being BM? Whatever, I don't think I need to say much here. He's a raw dps class not even pulling a support dps level.

Haylorsbk... I hope he got disconnected, because less than 70 fireballs is deplorable. Means he's casting one every 5.25 seconds. What's he doing for half the fight?

Three shadow priests is pretty bad. If you're going to run with that many, you should drop either one of them or one of your healers and run with another dps.

Your tanks and healers look very good. No one should be getting threat capped, and from the looks of it, no one is dying from burn. Just DPS has to step it up. Really, you guys just need full consumables / best enchants and a few of the little tricks, and he's dead.

Progression is a marathon, not a sprint.

Season 3 Gladiator: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ris&n=Blackins

 

Zaniel

Yeah, I think this is what we'll end up doing. I hadn't remembered that we'd made him run the imp. Thanks for pointing it out!

Excellent idea. But 3% is still like 300k right? Will the shaman totems really help that much?
I won't shoot down a good idea though. Again, thanks for the input. It's much appreciated.

Blacksen,
Yeah, normally we only run with 1 Ele, but I don't recall why we had 2 last night. I guess we thought stacking the extra Hero would help.

As for rogue SnD, I am Zaniel and I know that last night I was struggling with a new cycle (which I actually got from the forums here) and I wasn't quite up to par with it. I'll definitely make sure I don't let it drop though. Normally I'm really good with it, but going from 4s5r to 3s5r created some downtime. I'll just sacrifice more Ruptures to keep SnD up, I think.
I will also talk with Sieben to make sure he's keeping it up as well.

To the other ranged, I really appreciate your comments. Those are the classes I have little to no knowledge about, and I will direct them directly to your post. I really appreciate the criticisms. We need to get serious, as you said. People need to step it up.

I believe we went with a third S.priest for last night simply because of mana issues with our casters. I'm not 100% sure on that, but I seem to recall it. I'll see what else we can do. Also, for the hunters, can I point Brim (and Orthus, our other who wasn't online last night) to a topic here to help him out? Seems his rotation might need some work.

Again, Blacksen, this is exactly what I needed and requested. Thanks a ton.

 

Lambach

In order for a team like yours to take 1 less shadow priest you'll probably need to rotate the shadow priests groups around. I have ours in whatever team is getting slashed, so it gives a rotation of when to move him(whenever brut is taunted), and gives most dps enough mana to get by and still be able to pop destros and haste and not have to lifetap much, etc.

 

Aggrohan

"Compare Lyerritch to Aggrohan. Obviously, the heroic MgT trinket isn't working for Aggrohan. He casts corruption quite a bit more, but the difference in damage is not even close to being overcome. Their shadow-bolt dmg difference is around 250k. Corruption dmg cuts down their damage difference to 170k. Corruption can't crit, and thus as a destruction warlock, it's almost useless. It's not worth the GCD it takes to cast, much less the mana it takes to cast. Really, this guy should almost be removed from your raid roster or forced to respec affliction (and hey, he's already gemmed all spell dmg anyway). A destruction warlock at this level doing less than 1500 is deplorable.
"


Just a defense of myself, sir. (To Blacksen) For that 3% pull, I was specced as a raid-support Affliction build with Shadow Embrace/Maledicition. After that near-run thing, I swapped back to a Destro build for the last pull of the night, where I was pulling down a much more considerable 1858 (even after no haste re-gemming and forgetting to put away the HMgt trink for a Sextant of Unstable Currents...sigh, no Skull). You can take a look at the very last attempt on the WWS list for that, I appreciate constructive criticism. Will be running as standard 0/21/40 from here out, the usual SB spam. (Plus Infernal).

 

ZoFu

My guilds has been farming Illidan for around 2 months I think our dps should be a lot higher then it currently is when we did Brutallus. This was our first night doing Brutallus so its pretty much learn as we go and get some tips on how we can improve our DPS. Can I get some input on what we should do bump up our DPS? Keep in my mind that our DPS warrior should not be in that raid. I know of the druid FF which we'll be applying next attempt but I need some more input on how we can bump up our DPS as our rogues are doing very low DPS and it seems the only ones pulling their weight are the warlocks/spriests/mages

WWS Stats

 

Rannasha

Kithicor has 60% steady shot damage versus 17% auto shot. That's really, really bad.

Loctor uses alot of T6 pieces, which are not very good for Enh Shamans compared to non-set drops. Also, he seems to gem for the socket bonus in every piece, even if this is just a STA bonus.

Didn't go through the rest of them, but these two certainly have things to fix.

 

Axanor

Do you have a Druid tank available? The threat generation would likely help out with your ability to put out damage, as well as providing more inherent dps and an easier healing target.

 

ZoFu

We do not have druid tanks available unfortunately. Both of our druid tanks left.

 

Iluminati

Your rogues are letting slice and dice drop WAY too much. This attempt was barely 3 minutes long and some of them had it drop 3+ times, that's completely unacceptable.

It looks like your shadow priest (apostate) only has 50% dot uptime...? and is not casting MB and SW: D every cooldown...unless they died early but I cant tell.

The other shadow priest does much better, but is not using mb and sw: d enough either.

Unfortunately you guys are not hitting the enrage, making it very hard to evaluate your dps. Some of your dps'ers will go up (mages w/ heroism + cd stack at execute) and some may go down (locks/hunters that go oom due to poor management or a bad priest).

It looks like your holy priests are using circle of healing...? That's bad. They should be focusing entirely on the tank with Gheal 3-4 spam w/ renews and poms to help. Your shadow priests should be healing the raid with imp VE and your shamans w/ chain heal bounces off of the tank.

You also only have 2 paladins in the raid. that 3rd blessing is pretty crucial in such a sensitive encounter. You're horde so ret paladins are actually better for you than alliance from my understanding, You should look into one perhaps. Getting a feral druid and/or a moonkin would help as well (imp FF + extra crit auras).

 

ZoFu

Thanks for the input ya I'm the other shadow priest and I'm now chopping off mf when my mb cd is up, we should be taking a moonkin also with us, as far as 3 palis ya we should have 3 we were just trying different things cause our ret pali had to leave cause of computer issues so we did have 3.

 

Cinre

To start with you should probably focus on staying alive for 6min. It's hard to compare dps when some drop within a minute while others last till the wipe. Also the duration of the wipe will scew the dps stats a lot. If it takes you 30 seconds tow ipe those 30 seconds are accounted for in the dps statistics as well.

You run with 8 healers, and I can tell you that at your current state you will not kill him. Start trying with 7 healers, might seem harder but reaching the enrage with 8 healers and having 10% left on Brutallus won't kill him either.

Try running with a retribution paladin, or make sure that your other paladins keep judgements up, especially Judgement of Wisdom is important. One of your hunters had to pop AotV, eventhough the fight wasn't more then 3min long. Running with Judgement of Wisdom will give space for speed or destro pots, increasing your dps that bit more.
I didn't notice anyone using these, could have missed it though, also I missed Demonslayer Elixir on your physical dps classes.

Work on your positioning and grouping. Based on the mana spring totems I can see some are not within 30yards (assuming improved totems) of your shamans in their groups. Your BM hunter gets 5 ticks from mana spring, so he probably wasn't near enough. So I assume he didn't get the Agi totem, and maybe not even Strength of Earth for his pet.
You should work based on synergy. Select those classes that strengthen eachother and group them accordingly. Also position them near to eachother. Go back in this thread to find some setups, the one with the boxing or grid around tanks works superb, considering 2 SP and 2 restoration shaman.
If you don't give GoA to your hunters, and neither have a feral druid you can't expect them to do top dps. You wrote that your dps warrior is usually not in, so i hope you have anotherm cause you'll need one for your rogues.

Overall there's a lot to do on a lot of different levels. Your dps should check their rotations, buffs (especially the right pots like haste and destruction), cooldowns (your 2min dps cooldowns and trinket should actually be used every cooldown) and even gear (really your dps should have 4 pieces of T6, or at least a majority of them, having two with 3 pieces is worse then one with 2 and another with 4). Work with your drum rotations, you've only got a few using them, or even capable of using them. And last but not least, think about your raid setup, this concerns composition as well as positioning.

 

ZoFu

Ya I think the plan is to bring 7 healers for Brutallus and use amp magic and a couple other things and just try and at least hit the enrage timer and work on burn spots and heals on burn victims. Then we'll improve our dps.

 

Zaniel

Well, guys and gals, it happened, and I just want to thank everyone here that helped -- either in the forums or in PMs. Because of your input, criticism, and support we finally nailed Brutallus last night, and we even did it before his enrage timer (barely, but still)!

Thanks again -- you guys rock!
WWS here for the curious

 

LockApologist

You have some odd group make ups.

2 ele shaman in the same group? Why?

You're catering to the single mage you have, when your caster group should be elemental, boomkin, spriest, lock, lock. Mage and the other elem should go with your paladins or maybe a BM.

And judging from his performance, you probably put up CoE instead of CoS, which makes no sense at all. If you had CoS, your locks got really unlucky. In whatever case, I'd be surprised if you didn't have CoE up, and either of CoR/CoS would have been a better choice.

Just odd.

 

Zoriac

After reading a couple of post and saw some great help you guys and girls give.

Here is my question:

Our wws: Wow Web Stats

We run a setup with 8/2 1 druid tank and 1 prot warrior tank

We can and have reached the enrage timer for a couple of times now and 9% was our best try.

9% is far from a kill.... And most ppl used all stuff they could. So with words: "Our dps sucks"

Currently we are figuring out what we can improve but are stuck a bit...

Hope any of you guys/girls can help us out

 

Axanor

Problem #1- Your bear tank is not DPSing in Cat Form when the other tank taunts off him- he's doing 1/2-2/3s the DPS he should be doing.

Problem #2- No DPS should be below Shadowpriests. - Your elemental shaman is having serious dps issues, as is Mageduck.

 

Tyrian

Why does Mageduck only have a 85% presence for that WWS? He only received one burn and iceblocked it. I must be missing something very big, because theres no reasonable explanation for why a dps presence can be low for a mage/pally who only gets one burn.

Edit - Mageduck - WWS

Major mana issues, a full cycle evocation? Thats a dirty word. Its painful to see a fellow mage have to do something this drastic. Not all your healers need a shadow priest. Is it nice? Yes. Do they all need it? No. Take at least healer out and put your mage with a shadow priest instead. Out of curiousity, what class is the player who makes the groups for your raid?

Destruction potions = Wow Web Stats

Some people decide they dont want to use them? Not good enough. Players like mageduck might have no choice, due to poor group setup - and rely on Mana pot CD instead. Your DPS should be getting shadow priests to allow them to use DPS consumables, not un-necessary mana pots. Id strongly recommend you get a retpaladin and a 4th shaman in (3 is OK, but 4 is just so much more comfortable for creating better synergy groups) - of course this is only possible if you have said players already in the guild.

Lastly, 8 healers is overkill - especially when it includes 3 paladin+3 priests. If you want that many healers (Try not to bring more than 7), bring more shamans instead - and less paladin/priests. Improve group/raid synergy by doing things like: getting a ret paladin, giving mages shadow priests. Try to create double (or triple) Beastmaster hunter groups instead of just one hunter - hunters shine together. Tell your players to clean up their act. More destruction potions, more drums. How is your druid tank doing the almost the same DPS as the warrior? Thats just poor. It appears your rogues are not using elixir of demonslaying? Look at their drum usage: Wow Web Stats Thats poor. Look at drums usage for a selection of guilds killing Brutallus - and I guarantee that most guilds have a strong drums-for-melee group usage.

 

LockApologist

RE: Destro pots

Your locks w/o spriests (i.e. Farfadet) should only use a destro during heroism, and mana pot the rest of the time. Additionally, before the mage above convinces you to change your mind, it's generally better for the spriest to go with the locks, if the mage can manage w/ gems/pots and no evo. If he has to evo, give him the spriest part time. Actually, in general, max spriest benefit often means he has to be moved around. But, I'll agree with our mage friend that your healers don't need a full time spriest. Several of your healers only used 1-2 mana pot. Tell them to be less cheap and pot.

How do your locks determine curses? You have 2 casting CoD, but it looks like they are not the highest +shadow locks. Maxing DPS means your highest + dmg locks should be using CoD. A hundred point difference in +dmg (which I see in some of your locks) is about 20 dps on CoD.

 

Zoriac

Update: Last night we had a great 6% try... we thought 1 moment we would have killed him

WWS: WWS Loading...

But Luminus died early and maybe with him alive we could have killed him..

Still at looks kinda low on dps.... I self think that we had 1sp in instead of 3 and 2 more caster dps.. unfortunately none available...

Once again any help tips or anything you guys or girls see what we can improve is greatly appreciated.