You should use all your consumable/trinket timers you have for stomp.
Moroes trinket has a 2 minute cooldown, so you can use it every second stomp basically.Shadowmoon Insignia has a 3 minute cooldown, use it together with a nightmare seeds. When both trinkets and nightmare seeds are on cooldown use Laststand and that helps you already over all the stomps in the 6 minutes.
You can pop shieldwall for safety when he is on a low percentage or if you are gonna eat 2 stomps in a row.

I am not exactly sure what's the best gear to use but so far i didn't die the last months on brutallus while balancing the gear around 21k+ hp fully buffed with consumables and the rest on avoidance. I am sure most of the guilds have too many protector tokens anyway, so you can just get 2 sets differently enchanted/gemmed for stamina or avoidance.

I've been asked to solicit feedback from experienced warrior tanks on how best to improve gear.

Anblar's Brutallus gear

That link reports 16304 health unbuffed, and about 58% dodge+parry.

Tonight was a learning night, 2 tanks, 8 healers, with 2 healers healing burn full time according to our coordinator, which should mean the tank healing was about what we'd expect on a full-dps attempt. Our best attempt had us last about 4:30, when I think something happened that wasn't the healers' fault, so I'm hoping we're on track to survive to enrage.

As DPS, I'm having to invis around 0:45 in time to pop first cooldowns at 1:00 (my personal plan is 1:00, 3:00, 5:00-or-20%) and I've yet to use flame caps, dest pots, drums, or heroism. (Tonight would've been cap- and pot-less anyway; I wasn't in the shadowpriest group.) Obviously, I'm hoping for more threat, but I don't know how survivable this gearset would be once we shave off that 8th healer, so if that looks like it's too slim on that front, I'd like to know that, too.

I can say that he has no problem generating sufficient threat on, say, Teron, even when we'd pop everything but drums in the first ten seconds. Obviously Brutallus is more demanding on the tank. If needed, I could inquire into what he uses on Teron (I assume he stacks more threat there; we've had tanks actually be rage-starved in full avoidance).

(Yes, a few of my gem choices aren't best in slot - two blues were needed to make the metagem work...)

Looking more at Anblar's spec than his gear shows 2/2 Imp Taunt and only 3/5 Cruelty.

I'd move the 2 points from imp taunt, which will be useless on Brutallus to max out Cruelty.

Other than that I'd look at your group setups and the threat support you are providing the tank with

If your other tank is a Feral, I suggest leading with him in order to establish a better initial threat lead.

Druid tanking starting off with a BL on the pull will practically guarantee no threat problems. If you're still having problems your warrior can try 'shout-twisting' - battle during normal hits, commanding before/during stomp, then back to battle.

Teron and Brutallus aren't really comparable for tanks. Brutallus just has a far bigger capability of wtfpwning you, it definitely affects the gearing choices.

Really, your threat situation actually depends a lot on both tanks. I'd say two warriors is the hardest, as of the 3 tank types warriors generate the least amount of threat. Make sure you're having the right tank go first, make sure your tanks are doing their highest threat rotations - which probably won't be their normal rotations due to the basically unlimited rage/mana they'll have.

Finally, expect their dps to get better as they become more comfortable with the fight, especially the timings of the stomps and taunts.

Our other tank last night was indeed feral - but that's not constant. We have a protadin and a second warrior as well.

My mention of Teron was more to note that the threat rotation is likely fine; he's familiar enough by now with the rhythm of Brutallus that the gear set is probably the bottleneck. The talent suggestions are also noted and appreciated. We also have group optimizations yet to work out, as we're just now getting the healing consistent. One of our retired tanks also suggested an agi totem for the warrior, IIRC, but I'll keep the feral-first option in mind as well.

Don't drop SnD. A 5th CP is definitely not worth 1-3 seconds without SnD, especially on a tank and spank where you should never drop SnD.

The 3 point eviscerates lead me to believe you should cut your cycles down to 4s/5r (not for sure, but your gear looks similar enough to where mine was for our first Brut kill). That's the cycle I've been using since breaking my 4 pc T5, and it is still easily managed. Beyond switching that up, eviscerate is only a good option for the second 5 pointer out of AR. If you cut down your cycle so that you aren't refreshing with so much time left (ideally you pool until there is a split second left and then refresh), you gain rupture up time (5 pt rupture every 9 CPs as opposed to every 10 CPs). The whole reason cycles exist is to achieve 100% slice uptime while providing the highest rupture up time possible.

For Brut specifically, I usually open with a 2 pt SnD, immediately BF/haste pot, build 4 CPs, let energy pool to 40-60, refresh SnD, AR, 5 pt rupture, 5 pt evisc, build back up to 4 pt SnD, and then settle into the 4s/5r rotation. Once beyond this point, use cooldowns as applicable, make sure you are calling the melee heroism/BL to coincide with your BF/haste pot CDs being back up, and just concentrate on your rotation.

I would argue about warrior being weakest threat on Brutallus. There are fights where warrior threat is sucky (entropius in avoidance gear, or twins offtanking). Brutallus isnt one of them. Basically full rage bar all the time + better threat dump in heroic vs maul + easily capped expertise after just few upgrades, makes warriors produce maybe the best threat out of all tanks. Its possible that your warriors dont gear optimally for the fight too, or are undergeared and compensate while losing out on threat (and by undergeared I mean not fully BT/MH/Kalecgos geared - rest is optional).

Need some help here:

We've been farming Brutallus for weeks now, but last night was the most goddawful mess of a raid I've ever been on. As we're geared enough, I took 8 healers last night. In theory it sohuld have been a breeze, but we had nothing but tank deaths all night.

For the life of me I can't find out whats the heck is going wrong. How can we keep getting tank deaths with 2 Pali, a Holy Priest AND a Shaman healing the tanks? As you can see I even went for 2 Ferals for the later tries but it was only marginally more stable.

WWS: WWS Loading...


Are the 3.8k Holy Lights big enough from the Palis? Were we just insanely unlucky?

A warrior's threat isn't weak per se but it is the weaker than paladin's and druids on this fight.

It's a dual wielding demon if your warrior is doing more threat than your prot paladin or feral druid on this fight something is probably wrong with your druid or paladin.

Thanks for the advice, we get many attempts on him so i can test that and compare the DPS numbers on recount.
And i set up a heroism DBM bar for a lil over 4 mins in, we coordinate, BF ( haste pot macro'd in with it) and I think we are normally really close to 20% about then, so the warrior gets a nice boost then as well.

I just wanted to pop in again and thank everyone for their advice. After I and our warrior tank changed out our gear based on the replies in this thread, we got him to enrage for the first time early tonight, then killed him a little while ago.

I was a bit worried about threat since I did take out a lot of my TPS stats (all my expertise and almost all of my hit) to get a good survivability suit, but it seems not to have been a problem at all since we killed him a few seconds into the enrage without really needing to account for threat.

Interestingly (in light of the discussion above) we use a feral (me) and a warrior, and started with the warrior, and again, we didn't have any problems with threat.

Thanks for the feedback, I will pop more cooldowns. I'll consider switching from the Comendation to Moroes to get an extra clicky. I'm a dorf so I also get stoneform. to throw in the mix.

I will do the following.

Stomp1 - taunted
Stomp2 - SMV/Stoneform/Seed
Stomp3 - Last stand/Moroes
Stomp4 - Taunted
Stomp5 - SMV/Stoneform/Seed
Stomp6 - Shield Wall if it looks good!

Another wierd thing I noticed. I looked at the WWS for the last attempt, and our druid tank took a larger max hit (11k). Seems wrong... I also noticed her health seemed lower then mine, but I don't really know if it's worth it for her to loose some Agi to gain more Stam. Does anyone have clicky suggestions for druids. She can't use seeds, but she goes for SMV/Moroes.

Also many people are suggesting ImpDemo to null out CoR but we have been using Screech+CoW. I was under the impression either method worked fine, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Most of the time I die a healer fesses up and says. "I had to run for a burn" I can't seem to get them to speak up.

I also keep wishing I could figure out a way to get the healers to unsynch, but no one has a good scheme for it.

As far as i know, Improved Demo shout 2/5 reduces a boss' attack power to 0. With Curse of Recklessness up, 5/5 improved demo is needed to reduce a boss' AP to 0.

Don't use Curse of Weakness, it's worse than demoralizing shout/roar and prevents the warlocks from using other Curses for DPS/raid buffing.

Druids can use seeds. Search through the feral druid megathread and you'll find macros that allow instantaneous and safe popping of seeds (unshift->seed->shiftback all instantly using 1 gcd). One of her trinkets should be a [Badge of Tenacity]. Armor is king during stomp, and with ironshield+inspiration I hit ~25k armor during stomp. For the second trinket either SMI or Moroes will work. I personally prefer SMI, as the add'l health on-use is perfect for the add'l damage going from 36k to 25k armor, and the defense lets me drop anti-crit enchants for avoidance enchants.

IIRC Screech + untalented Demo Shout is enough to fully negate all boss AP. Have your warrior tank keep up demo when he's not tanking, and drop CoW for a dps curse.

You do get that the Badge has an "on use" effect that increase dodge by 10.5% for 20 seconds every 2 mins right? You can use it 3x during Brutallus, who you are tanking for 3 mins of the 6 minutes. So basically for 1 min of the 3 mins, your dodge is 10.5% higher with the badge, which your armor is higher for the full 3 minutes of your tanking. Why the badge isn't epic is the only mystery.

In a word, yes.

I use Commendation (the passive proc will almost certainly proc during the fight) and and the Badge ("use" on every other Stomp), even though I have the other two available.

MT deaths was also our main issue with this fight. To fix this problem we assigned 2 teams of 2 healers focusing each other so they can watch their casting bars and try to not overlap their heals. This helps a lot during the stomps where your tank can take up to 25k dmg in 1.3 sec. MT healing is much more stable using this strat as we have been able to hit the enrage timer several times since we made this change.

I debated between posting this here and the Feral thread, sorry if I got it wrong.

We're going to start attempts on Brutallus tonight. Being a Feral, I'm going to be one of the tanks--probably the first one. Stomp has me really worried, as I suppose it should being that most of my protection IS armor. So I wanted to check and see if I have the stats required to get the job done.

Unbuffed stats with all Boss debuffs--scorpid sting, dual wielding, sunwell, etc. checked:
- 16.6k health
- 35.5k armor
- 54.1% dodge+miss

Stats as fully raid-buffed, using Ironskin, Mastery, Stamina food (but no armor buffs; see questions)
- 22.1k health
- 36.3k armor
- 66.9% dodge+miss, add 11.5% for Badge of Tenacity use and 8% for Commendation of Kael'thas proc

Now to my questions.

1) As you see it now, assuming healing is on time am I likely to survive Stomps?
2) Are numeric armor buffs (Devotion Aura and Ironshield) added before or after percent-based buffs/debuffs (the +25% from healing and -50% from stomp)? In other words, during Stomp do I have 2500 extra armor from Ironshield or 2500*1.25*0.5? I would imagine percents are calculated first, THEN straight numbers, since that's the way it works for Dire Bear Form's armor bonus, but I want to be sure.

My armory for reference. Thanks to anyone with a response!

Looking for some advice here. My guild has been stuck on Brut for a while now, and the main problem was healing. We had tank death after death. Here is a WWS of last tonight. Wow Web Stats

We went in tonight and finally seemed to get the healing down a little bit better. We used 8 healers, bit just didn't have the DPS to get it done. Our best attempt was 16% at the enrage, although a few people were dead when we got there. We did have some issues with burn though. We first tried having a Resto Druid and a Resto Shaman healing it, but people kept dying mainly from getting an extra meteor slash debuff when running to the safe spot. We then tried using 2 Resto Druids and it was a little bit better, but we had the same issue. They were saying that it was impossible to heal through if someone receives a meteor slash debuff running around. Someone getting a meteor slash running to the safe spot is bound to happen every now and then, is there anything we can do to prevent them for dying?

Here is the WWS for tonight, please help our DPS improve so we can finally kill Brut. Wow Web Stats It seems like most of the DPS is doing fine, but we have a few people that are really just not cutting it.

The best advice someone could give you is - "Read the whole thread" - because almost all the issues you mentioned have been thoroughly discussed before. They happen to all guilds learning the fight.

First of all, 8 healers? Its pretty standard that new guilds (who dont have massive BT/Sunwell gear) should use 7 healers to help with the DPS benchmark.

Druid+Shaman as burn healers is stupid. Your shamans should be in the raid to chain heal. If shamans heal someone with burn, they obviously will not be near your soak groups (since burn people move to the safe spot and melee nearby wont need healing) and your wasting your shaman essentially. You dont want shamans in the raid to be healing burn! You dont want Ancestral Fortitude to be proccing on burn people, you want it to proc on your two MT's. Switch to Druid+Paladin or Druid+Druid instead for better results and assign your shaman where they belong.

There are only two possible explanations here:

1 - Your DPS are just too slow and just not moving fast enough. If this is the case tell your DPS to stop sucking and move faster. Felmyst will have a field day with these players after you kill Brutallus.
2 - Your positioning is not set up correctly and people have to move an un-necessarily large distance to get to the safe spot in time. Your soak groups need to be asclose to the safe spot as possible to minimise the distance travelled and reduce the chance a dps will get hit by a meteor slash whilst running out with a fresh burn.

If someone with burn gets a late meteor slash because they moved out too slow, someone will almost certainly die as a result within the next minute. Usually the final 2 ticks will kill this person, if they even last that long - but even if your burn healers did an awesome job to keep them alive till it expired - this player would require so much healing there is a very strong chance someone else with burn will die as a result of the healers big strain to focus excessive heals on them, neglecting others.

Lets go through the standard 'please review our Brutallus WWS to help our dps' checklist:

1 - Destruction potion usage = Wow Web Stats Bad, 2 warlocks and 1 mage used 0 for the night.
2- Mana potion usage = Wow Web Stats We can see that some casters who didnt use Destruction potions werent necessarily using Mana potions - or using any potions for that matter. Maybe they think potting is optional?
3 - Haste potion usage = Wow Web Stats Kilrathi only 2 for the whole night?
4 - Elixir of Demonslaying usage = Wow Web Stats Speaks for itself.
5 - Drums of Battle usage = Wow Web Stats Great drum usage here by your melee/hunters.
6 - Who gets the Shadow Priests (Vampiric Touch) = Wow Web Stats Three Paladins and Two Holy Priests get the shadow priests, and 2 warlocks+1mage+3hunters go without one. You dont need to give that many healers a shadow priest. Cut back a little and give more VE to your dps, which will help them.

So in conclusion you can easily see from your WWS that although some members are 'doing good dps' - they certainly arent all putting in 110% effort with regards to consumables. You also need to make some group adjustments, such as with shadow priest allocation, which should help DPS improve further.