dusters84

I don't know if you didn't read my entire post, but we DO use 2 resto druids to heal burn. We only used a shaman when our enhancement shaman did not show up so melee could still get WF.

 

Tyrian

I read your entire post and was commenting that the two best options were druid+druid and druid+paladin instead of shaman+anything - which one you decide to use is irrelevant.

Did you read the read all of mine? Because half of the crap u wanted people to comment on is just blatent 'brutallus 101' stuff that anyone who knows the fight and this thread could see and fix themself by spending 5 minutes to look at their own WWS carefully. Eg Using Demonslaying elixirs, haste/destruction potions and shadow priest allocation.

People dont really need to come to EJ to get posters to remind them their rogues should be using Demonslaying elixirs and casters using Destruction potions and things like that. Most of the 'look at our wws and help us' posts are usually the same thing repeated with different Character names. Theres been some interesting discussion here on the merits of group setup (Eg, who gets the shadow priest?) and raid synergy (Eg, what spec should our dps warrior be?) but the rest is mostly rehashed discussion.

 

dusters84

I have read the entire Brutallus thread. I was not asking for who was using consumables (I already know that), I was more asking if there was anything we could do class abilities and rotation wise to help out some of the lower DPS. This kind of comment really isn't needed, all I did was ask a few questions.

 

dragon12

You asked "please help our dps improve" - you can't really complain when he gives you 5 different points on how to improve your raid's dps.

 

Jalhar

Why use two when one is enough ? Roll LB on the burned targets, add a rejuv to swiftmend on the player with burn < 20s, and there you go.

If your ranged dps are not retards (i.e. they don't spread burns and move fast enough to safe spot when they get it), one druid is enough to heal through burns, with 1 priest as backup for last 5 seconds (a well placed ProM is godlike to help the druid on the last few seconds of a burn), or a good use of healthstones or habilities.
I can't stress enough how important it is to notice that EVERY class has a way to help the burn healer, and how important it is to USE it.
Mage / pala / rogue => obvious
locks => fel armor
priests => self healing, deseperate prayer if race
druid => barkskin, self healing
hunter => actually, not every class ^^
Shaman => shamanistic rage / self healing
warrior => def stance if dps (5-10s of def stance won't kill your dps, no, it won't)


1 less druid => 7 healers => much less dps problems and same tank survivability. If some burns land on rogues / mages / paladins, the druid can even keep lifebloom up on the current tank.

We usually run with the standard healing setup 1 druid / 2 priests / 2 pals / 2 shams / 2 SP (they count as raid healers on brut ^^) on Brutallus, the druid (myself) on burns and tank healing if time, a shaman on raid healing, and rest on tank healing, and burn rarely has been a problem.

While I am at it, I didn't see the SK Brutallus dps record mentionned yet. It's quite impressive (nerf hunters ^^), but I have been surprised by the high number of rogues (only 1 warglaives set) and the "low" number of warlocks. They seem to have run a 3 physical dps groups, 1 magic dps group (2 locks for the curses more than the dps, no mage, sorry for you guys =/), 1 healing group setup (more or less). At first glance, I would have used only 2 physical dps groups and one more magic dps group (something like 3 locks, 1 SP/boomkin, 1 elem shammy). However, their report leads to think that melee dps actually scales much better with a fully optimized raid (gear, setup, debuffs, number of bloodlusts). Any thoughts ?

 

Razr

Pardon me for the laziness of reading the whole thread but i would like to ask a question. We have been killing Brutalus for some time now. During all this time we had never had a clean Brutalus 1-shot, each week we can spend 1 to 1.5 hours of tries to get him down. The main issue we face week by week is MT healing. We use 2x feral druids which is supposed to be the most safe setup. We run with 7 healers, that being 2x paladins 1x priest 1x shaman healing Mt, 1x shaman on raid, 1x druid+1x paladin for burn healing. Last week after we downed him again after an hour of tries i was thinking that we do something wrong with MT healing and i would like to ask u whether 3x Paladins would be even safer choice (HPS-wise) considering that we all got a minimum of 150 spell haste and the fact that inspiration aint all that usefull for druid tank since armor caped. Any suggestions?

 

Dominus

Position your soak groups to receive chain heal through the main tank. Have both shamans pushing chain heals into the main tank at the time, effectively healing slashes and having throughput on the MT.

Another point to make is that inspiration (and Ancestral Fortitude) are probably two of the most useful talents for this fight. They are insanely helpful at mitigating stomp, and even feral druids won't be armor capped when they have half their armor taken away. Sure it might be less useful when stomp isn't up, but it's not hard at all to heal the MT when stomp isn't up.

Lastly, how are you healing? This is a very, very general question that you're asking and it depends on multiple factors. There are multiple things I'm sure could be done better if you're having tank deaths, and none involve swapping assignments. What kinds of heals are incoming on the tanks from each healer (HL from pallies? GH from the priest?), and are they intelligently up/down ranking? Those two things are generally some of the bigger flaws in healing setups that find themselves failing in this fight.

 

Razr

Well the priest is using Gheal not sure however about the ranks, and all paladins use r9 HL with r11 on stomps. We also tried paladins using r11 with dark rune spamage throughtout all the fight but hardly made a difference.

What u said about the soaked grps positioned in a way that the tanks get chain heal u mean like this diagram on this guide?:

Bosskillers World of Warcraft Bosses, Guides, Movie Reviews and Guild Kills

If thats the case thats how we are standing atm.

Lastly what i saw was improving things somehow is to have focus one paladin the other one and make sure they dont cast the HL synchronously but even that is highly affected by differences in spell haste and lag.

 

Anedris

When are your tanks dying?

If they're dying during stomp:
- Improve inspiration/AF uptime
- Make sure all tank healers are spamming max HPS spells from 3 seconds pre-stomp until the end of stomp (check the log for downranked heals landing). If your healers complain of mana issues tell them to downrank more during non-stomp non-transition periods
- Make sure the tanks are using cooldowns (trinkets and nightmare seeds)

If they're dying during transitions:
- Assign one healer (priest works best) to swap to the new tank a couple seconds before the transition and make sure the other healers stay on the old tank until he no longer has aggro
- Make sure your tanks are calling their taunts ("Taunting in 2, 1, taunt!" etc.)

If they're dying during non-stomp non-transition periods:
- Tell your healers to pay attention. Give the paladins a shadow priest if they can't keep up mana-wise

 

Razr

They dont usually die steadily in any of those thats the problem. We nearly every wednesday we get those RNG instagibs, then what it usually happens is that after getting the first big strike from the stomp he aint toped imediately therefore geting 1 hit and die. But what is the most common thing is that we are tending to get all the MT healers land on the same second their heal;p

And i was thinking that since our RDPS are so good would be wise to possibly bring 1 more healer for safer farmage. But what u suggest that would be? we run with 1xpala+1xdruid burns (works excelent every time even manage to keep ppl that fuck up with 2 meteor slash), 1x shaman for raid (works great), and then the MT squad with 1x priest, 2x pala 1x shaman. I suppose that bringing 1x priest more that will be burn healer for the last 10 ticks and otherwise spaming MT to proc inspiration would be the best. Or not?!

 

seminarca

How are your Druids gearing for this? If regular tank deaths are an issue, it's possible they are gemming/gearing as Stamina heavy sponge tanks. Recent concensus agrees avoidance is the way to go for Brutallus.

Ironshield Potions are useful even for Druids during learning or on the first few kills, as mentioned already Druids are not armor capped while Stomp is up. It does mean some armor goes to waste while Stomp is not up, but they are useful in reducing damage through Stomps. Also, trinket choice is vital, have them use 2 activated trinkets such as Badge of Tenacity, Moroes' Pocketwatch or Shadowmoon Insignia instead of proc based ones like Commendation of Kael'thas. Commendation could proc outside of Stomp and then be on cooldown for it, whereas the activated ones are guaranteed to be up for the duration of Stomp.

If your Druids are "switched on" enough, they can use their Staff of the Forest Lord for tanking outside of Stomp since with Ironshields they should still be armor capped even with a no armor weapon, switch to their armor weapon when Stomp is due and then back to the DPS staff after Stomp ends.

Finally, debuffs are quite important. Since you are using 2 Druids, I hope you've got a DPS Warrior providing Imp Thunderclap and Imp Demo Shout. They really do reduce incoming damage by a significant amount.

 

clavarnway

Can you please go over this more indepth? I was curious about using CH's to funnel through the MT to heal Meteor Slash and improve the armor buff uptime on the tank but I can't think of any positions. If you spread them out in a circle around the MT then you have problems running out if you get Burn, and if you make too wide of an arc they won't be in the Meteor Slash cone.

http://sigs.guildlaunch.net/sig.php/1424974uXyta.png

 

Myko

Standard 3 x 3 grid is fine for chain healing, tank can be in any position in the grid. Chain heal actually jumps pretty far in a raid, and it will bounce from tank to second row to third.

 

Tyrian

X = DPS
O = Tank

You won't have problems running out Burn, providing you position the grid as close to the safe zone as possible and people get there fast.

 

Curtis

Yes if dual drood seems individually better, i would rather stay with warrior/drood as dual drood means one of your dps warrior lose some significant dps by having to put thunderclap on and eventually imp. demo shout.

By the way i can't remember if imp. demo shout stack with owl screech, can anyone confirm that ? Each week i tell one hunter to come with an owl on bruta, maybe i am wrong.

 

Liar

I doubt Imp Demo and Screech stack. Even if they did, it doesn't matter because Imp Demo is all you need to remove a CoR'd bosses AP.

Protection Warrior PvP video | Unexpected TankPoints error

 

Curtis

I do not think Brutallus is 0 AP base (think most boss are 300 ~), if they do imp demo is counterbalancing CoR and screech owl makes brutallus ap near 0 then.

 

Liar

Where did I say Brutallus had 0 AP base? I said Imp Demo is enough to reduce his AP to 0 even with CoR and without Screech.

Protection Warrior PvP video | Unexpected TankPoints error

 

Jalhar

Imp Demo shout & screech stack. Imp Demo shout is not enough to remove a CoR'd boss AP. You need screech + demo shout (improved or not).

To be more precise (infos I copypasted from here to my guild's forums, I can't find the original thread any more ) :

 

Curtis

edit : Jalhar owned me :p

 

Liar

My bad then. Could one of you guys link the source of this information as well? I didn't know you could figure out the Boss AP values for non-beast bosses that easily so I'd like to know where the 340 AP number is from.

Protection Warrior PvP video | Unexpected TankPoints error

 

Tarem

I have read most of this thread so I don't think my question has been asked. After looking at the combat log for our Brutallus attempts, I noticed that most of my stomp heals landed at the exact same time as stomp. For example:

13329 19:09'17.641 Tarem's Greater Heal crit heals Krazie for 9367
13330 19:09'17.641 Brutallus's Stomp hits Krazie for 6003 Physical

The heal is listed before the stomp damage but they are at the exact same time. In all cases where my heal and stomp damage had the same time, the heal was always listed before the stomp damage. Does that heal cover the stomp damage assuming the tank was at full health before hand or do I need to be a fraction of a second later on my timing?

 

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