Yaelle

That are pretty much the same problems we have. I'm currently trying to convince the others to macro arcane resist potions and health stones to compensate for brain lag, which should prevent deaths for the ones running away. I'm not sure what to do with the encapsulated target though.

 

Touf

Keep people topped off, yell at people who get encapsulated and don't use their pot/healthstone. That takes care of 1.5 ticks, if your healers can't handle that you have other problems. Remember you can put the debuff on Grid.

As for the running, it got a lot smoother when we just told everyone to run to the melee. That way they're all together for dispel. At the very least make sure the group isn't scattering in all directions, it's hard to chain/CoH that.

 

Kegsta

We're working on her at the moment, best being a 1% wipe which was lucky really, being able to live for 4 hours while the same 10 people die 10 times each ito stupid crap like standing in green beams or getting mcd is frustrating, but thats another story.

All our ranged DPS are heavily threat capped with tranquil air totem for everyone, were going to try a druid tank next week.

Encaptulates arn't that big a deal, once the mass dispels are perfect everyone having 10k health + 3x healthstones, i can generally make it out without needing a single heal, but i tell everyone to healthstone anyway.

My advise for dealing with encaptulate.

Look at WWS, make everyone aware
1 tick = great
2 ticks = average
3 ticks = they are fucking slow
4 ticks = you have downs
5 ticks = you'd better be the target of encap

GET EVERYONE TO ADD THE ENCAPTULATE DEBUFF TO GRID

We use this positioning, the group on your side heals you when your encapped, we also have a druid and the prot paly stand with the melle group and they heal the target of encaptulate.


-The purple arrow is Felmyst.
-The (slightly blue) circles are encapsulate range (20 yard radius). Note: none are anywhere near the melee.
-The yellow is a Mass Dispel area. (15 yard raidus)
- Obviously there is a 3rd mass dispel on the melee group.
- Prot-paly dispels the MT.
NOTES:
-Pets count as a mass dispel target, make sure they arnt in the ranged groups if you have 10 people expecting a dispel.
-In practice positiioning is far easier that it looks on paper, put a mark on one person from each group, the 2 top groups go wherever they want, the 2 bottom groups are set by the shadow priest doing the MDing.
- we are an aussie guild with 300+ latency, we've had 3 occasions (in 9 hours) where the target of encap has moved to quickly resulting in being lifted into the air in the middle of the 2 groups owning them all, i can imagine having 10ms pings and super leet raiders this could be a big problem with this positioning.

 

taybul

It's also good to have someone call out when the encapsulate cooldown is up so people can get ready to run. Another good thing to note is she'll turn towards the person she's about to encaps, so if she looks at your group, better hightail it out of there.

 

Mather

Kegsta, I have a question about the strat you posted. You said the yellow circles are mass dispels but wouldn't that make the 2 groups on the sides close to each other for encapsulate damage as it is 20 yards and mass dispel is 15 yards?

 

Iluminati

Putting arcane protection pot + healthstone on a macro = save your life. You can also use them when you are the encapsulate target.

 

Regen

15+15 = 30

Kegsta: While I see that strat working fine I don't really consider it optimal in terms of avoiding encapsulate damage. With your strat (I'm assuming everyone in those groups are stacked right on top of each other...) everyone has to run from point blank in their given group. While this might effectively be the strat that involves the LEAST number of people taking encapsulate it certainly is not a strat which minimizes raid deaths (significant amount of damage on any given person), which ultimately will cause wipes everytime. I would rather 10 people take 1 tick than 5 people take 2 any day of the week.

 

BeeLz

Mass dispel has a 15 yd radius. So if you cast mass dispel in the centre of those 2 groups it will dispel everyone in a 15yd range, so in theory both groups can be 30yards away from eachother.

 

Tyrian

Heres a picture I made when we learnt Felmyst. Since then we're actually changed the positioning again to something cleaner - but this served us well for our first learning attempts:



Red circle = Encapsulate radius
Yellow circle = Mass dispell radius

The main things to note:

- The raid forms a 4 point square around the boss. The middle of the square is the crate in the middle of the field, and the bosses hitbox edge is positioning to be on this square, where the melee stand.
- Three of these points are groups, the other point (top right) is just a single Paladin. The melee are in the middle and only have to move a SMALL amount when a encapsulate hits a range group (maybe 1-2 steps)
- This is a 4 priest setup. 4 priests dispell 4 groups (3 ranged + melee) , and the ProtPally dispells the MT. The Holy Paladin on the top-right single part of the square dispels himself.
- During an encapsulate, adjacent points of the square heal that person. For example, in a setup like

A--B
----
C--D

If 'A' got encapsulated, that group runs off, obviously. All the healers in "B" and "C" heal that person.

Like I said, we've since improved on this positioning to something more comfortable for us, but this was a good initial way to learn the fight. Encapsulate will only hit ~5 people at time. If you run with 8 healers the actual number of healers will look like this, around the squre;

2healer--------1 healer
-------------------------
-------------------------
3 healer-------2 healer

If you notice with this above diagram, no matter which corner of the square gets encapsulated, there will always be FOUR healer on both adjacent points available to heal that person. From there its just a matter of spreading around your Paladins appropriately around the square and ensuring the positioning is setup correctly (all adjacent points within healing range of each other) and that your healers are actually fast enough to keep the encapsulated person alive.

We give our MT heroism on every pull. Alternate shamans between fast wipes so that he will always get a heroism upon engage. The fight is long enough that your other shaman will have his CD up ready by 20% for the dps group hes swapped in to.

We, unfortunately, wiped on Felmyst far too much. In the end, I did a (swstats) skill report on every person who dies - and they better have at least used a healthstone if an encapsulate killed them. People would be asked on vent to explain how they died. "I was slow" or "I guess I didnt get out in time" are not acceptable answers. People need to be scared to die in this fight, not just have a 'Oh well, I was slow and died. QQ' attitude. When people get scared and pot frantically and react lightning fast - progress should improve much more than when everyone has a casual, too-laid-back attitude.

 

Regen

This is pretty ideal --- The only way I would modify it would be to require only 3 Mass Dispels by grouping D+ half of melee and A + other half of melee.

 

Wish

We found out, that healing through the entire group with encapsulate not only helps in avoiding a fast following gas nova, but trivializes the whole phase1, though this requires a bit of stacking.

First of all, every healer should whitelist "encapsulate" in their unitframe. Then build 4 groups and one melee group positioned that if one of the groups gets an encapsulate it does not blow up another group.

Then you get at least two circle of healing priestes (three make it safer if one of the CoH priests gets the encapsulate, the third one can be PoH, but Divine Spirit is useless anyway stick to CoH). Two shadowpriests at least for Mass Dispell, three is nicer, so the holy priests can concentrate on their group. Anyway, put each CoH priest on a dedicated group, put one shaman on group healing for their distinct group and you are set.
If encapsulate hits, the holy priests spam the target with CoH, until Chainheal starts to kick in and tops the group. If the maintank gets encapsulated, just heal the meele group. No one should move in phase 1.
The only problem, as said before, is to have enough priests online, on the other hand, after this phase 1 is a non issue.

 

Kegsta

I'm intrested to see an example of positioning for this, screenshots tonight would probably be easiest. Are you having everyone spread out around the entire mass dispel area? I can see how this could work, but when a person at the front of the area gets encapped, doesn't everyone behind them take extra ticks?
We only allow for 3 mass dispels aswell, any strat requiring 4 is a no go with our priest numbers around exam time.

so do we but it doesn't help. a druid should solve the problem i think.

Are your ranged dpsers all going up to 130% and running away when she lands?

We've seen some wierd agro pulls aswell, i have a feeling tranquil air and omen don't mix quite right.

We also have had the warrior hit for 30k in 1.2 seconds during corrosion (2x 15k+ hits), is this normal? I'm assuming demo shout has fallen of when this happens.

We've seen lazer beams spawn in front of people who are already running resulting in a quick death, graphics issue? turning around issue? just lag? has only happened 3 times in 9 hours so not to worried about it.

we tried the heal through it strat with 2 COH priests and everyone using our AR cloak and trinket from kalecgos on our first night, first person to get encapped was a COH priest and we new it just wasen't going to work for us.

 

Tyrian

Tip: You can position the raid - and get raid members to run in specific directions... where the location they end up is still in a mass dispell radius, of another group.

Dont think that 'running from encapsulate' means you will be forced to run off into a big empty, nowhere zone and die from a Gas Nova after because your not near any Mass dispell and couldn't get back to your original location in time. It only happens that way if thats the strat you chose to go with.

Yes, I go up to ~120% MT threat and hover there. I/Mages can invisibility during phase 2, at the correct time (when shes on the far side between a breathe) and that should fix agro problems from there.

I must admit ive seen Felmyst behave very strange sometimes with agro. Ive pulled at ~110% (not in melee range), we've seen melee pull agro who were simply not high enough. It can of course be put down to Omen being wrong - but either way ive seen Felmyst's agro act strange a couple times and not able to isolate exactly what happened.

Another strange thing: On a attempt, Felmyst landed at 5% Hp while enraged. Instead of rushing directly to the MT (as omen was indicating), she ran towards a rogue, a ret paladin, and ME (who had just 100% reset agro with invisability a few minutes earlier) and killed us all before going to the MT resulting in a wipe. None of these people were anywhere near high on threat, especially the ret paladin (who is quite low on damage for this fight). But me using invisability and dying like that before the MT who has had agro for 10 minutes is strange.

Raid leaders here could write a book called, "Excuses you've heard for people dying on Felmyst". Highlights of the book would include:

"I was lagging" - (when its an outright lie = you were just too slow to move)
"The beam caught up to me!" - (downright untrue = you were just too slow to move)
"I didn't see it" - (just a lie = you were just too slow)
"There was nothing I could have done to survive!" - (ORLY? = did you use your healthstone/healthpot?)

In all honesty, ive seen so many deaths in our Felmyst wipes - and heard so many excuses - and the same thing applies to virtually every one of them - either "You were just too slow, period" or "You should have potted and been faster, period". It reminds me of Archimonde, people can think of elaborate reasons for why they crater/die to doomfire - but in the end, you were probably just too slow, not paying enough attention, didn't pot - or a mix of all three.

About the 'heal through encapsulate' strat that people sometimes comment, "Wow, thats what Nihilum does!". Personally I think its silly. Its a good thing to do if you want to show off, great for the e-peen, but in no way is it the smartest or most elegant way to handle the fight.

 

Kegsta

I realise that, but this has had like 5 people all saying they saw the same thing (on the same attempt not different ones) is why I mentioning it, but i guess you know what blackrock + felmyst is like just as well as i do.

 

Iluminati

was this after an encapsulate/gas nova? We noticed that anyone over the tank after/during a cast would get killed. From then on we just had everyone stay below the MT at all times (if someone goes over on air phase they use a dump or get bopped) and we haven't had anything like that since.

 

Regen

Sorry for the Paint job (at work) -- but hopefully it gets the visual point across

As for ranged DPS, Mages can drop their threat during the first air phase and locks can shatter when he re-lands for the first time. Felmyst's swing timer is pretty slow, should be able to solo heal with a paladin + hots (demo probably did fall off, 15k is extremely high).

As for beam deaths, try as a general rule to have everyone moving, awaiting their name to pop up (you have literally nothing to do but survive until both beams are complete).

 

Tyrian

Actually, yes it was! I remember vividly because I was watching the encapsulated person and their group very closely to see who is potting. Next thing I know, all the people near the encapsulate survive after it ends, but I get agro and die instantly - totally confused as to why I had agro in the first place.

However, many of the ranged people in our guild still will often stay at 110-120% MT threat and incidents like the aforementioned are very rare. We would struggle with dps if we told everyone to stay below MT/100% threat, I think.

 

Kegsta

Thanks alot for that, I can see a few peoples positions being nasty ones, but i guess you can just place the mages and paladins there, will definatly give it a go next time.

For phase 2 we have every ranged dpsing her until she goes and starts casting breaths, because of enrage timer problems, this is probably what is causing our threat problems aswell. for me personally I can stand still shooting lightning bolts at her until I see bigwings put a skull on my head and I turn and run, I've never taken a hit except the one time mentioned above.

 

Baalzaman

We have our ranged go hard on Felmyst during the air phase as well, just need to make sure that the classes who can threat wipe use it - Hunters feign, Mages invis as soon as the aura is off and Warlocks need to soulshatter during the first air phase (this allows soulshatter to be back up towards the end of the fight) - need to take care to do this while she is still above you however due to the limited range on soulshatter.

As an additional measure we have our paladins work out a BoP rotation so if Felmyst does go after a dps on landing we can usually bounce her onto the MT.

One little trick by the way: when Felmyst is about to land you will see her briefly target someone. That person is who she will run to on landing.

 

Iluminati

It is a bit buggy. Holding back on dps to stay under 100% felmyst usually lands with <5% left and we kill her during enrage. On the last phase before enrage we'll go nuts and basically ignore threat.

 

erich

i've been failing hard on felmyst mds

i use quartz, so when i see him cast, i start my md

my two biggest problems are:

1) sometimes quartz doesnt display a cast bar for gas nova; is it possible for quartz to not show from lag? if so, how can i fix it?

2) sometimes when i hit md it doesnt show me the circle on the first try and i have to try multiple times, how can i avoid this?

 

pipebomb

I was having trouble calling out breaths last night, typed this out for my own benefit, maybe it'll help others some.

When she flies west or east She starts in the middle, she can either 1.) stay exactly in the same spot (middle breath, easy to see) 2.) move 10 yards north or south (breath will be middle) 3.) move 30 yards north or south (breath will be north or south, easy to see)

the ones i mess up on are #2.) when she moves 10 yards north or south and breathes down the middle.

If we're standing north and she moves 10 yards north/breathes down the middle. i'd usually call north so we dont have to move. problem is 10 yards north and 30 yards north is hard to differntiate. **Especially when she Enrages and gains movement speed.

Conclusion: if we're standing north and she moves 10 yards north/breathes down the middle. I'm gonna call south so there's no room for error(umm less room for error). As long as everyone is near the edge, rdy to move and the tanks dont get dazed it should be np.