Elerion

This is only part true if you're a medium-high ping player (150ms+). After the spellcasting functionality changed, if you cancel a spell in the first 1.5 seconds of the cast, you will remain unable to cast until your client gets confirmation from the server that you did indeed cancel the cast. This can be a significant amount.
Add in the couple tenths of a second human delay you get from having to see the targeting circle on the ground before actually casting MD, and it's definitely possible to eat the 2 second tick even if you're casting only cast time spells.

Unless you're playing at very low latency values or doing nothing after the cooldown is up (which may or may not work for your raid), that second tick is not 100% avoidable. Not that it matters that much if you get an occasional tick.

 

Kirion

/stopcasting
/cast Mass Dispell

Bind to key. Like i said, 300+ ms ping in Russia is not something unusual, but our priests do fine. Brain lag is much worse though.

42.

 

Elerion

Don't be an asshole.

You might try reading my post properly. Alternatively you can test stopcasting a 1.5second cast spell and immediately casting something else. Shock and horror, it won't work.

If your 300ms priests manage to get MD off before second tick every single time while maintaining a full spell rotation (even cast time only) they're better men than me.

 

• goss

Its certainly not difficult for a prot pally to pick up the skeletons, but I found a couple aids that gave me a little more flexibility in moving around, particularly the green beams were far apart. [Oil of Immolation] let me drop a Consecrate in one spot, and keep moving into other mobs, and it usually got their attention enough to hit me and proc a Holy Shield. Also, I got a few [Stratholme Holy Water], which gave another ranged pickup along with RD, Exorcism and Avenger's shield.

 

Copernicus

From my limited testing, I think Amplify Magic didn't buff the Noxious Fumes. What effects, if any, does it have on any of her other abilities?

 

tedv

I assume it would have a minor increase on Encapsulate and Gas Nova damage, but not enough to really matter. This appears to be another "amp the whole raid" fights. Hopefully mages will get group versions of these spells in the expansion.

 

Fendryl

Amplify didn't seem to affect any of her abilities.

 

◊ Penguin

I see your problem. Being that MD is a defining ability in this fight, why would you risk it by doing anything with the GCD once Nova cooldown is up?

There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake

I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai

 

lightstrike

Depending on your raid's dps and healing, having 4/5 priests idling and waiting for her to cast a spell, sometimes for as long as 15secs, might be as risky as getting a tick.

 

rochan

Is there any point in bringing a melee group to this fight? They're damage to Felmyst is considerably worse than ranged because they miss out on about 30 secs of dps time when she is in the air. The faster you kill it, the less things can go wrong.

 

Illundai

Actually, I think there is two MT healers in that grp, but as she stops melee for a split second, I think the paladin in that group dispels himself. But in all honesty, mana really is no issue on this fight in that specific group (2 MT healers, 1 Affliction lock and the MT) since they'll regen so much mana during phase 2.

This is confusing. I hope you do not mean that Felmyst resets aggro, because she certainly doesn't.

 

Hiba

I think he was talking about Invisibility when boss is landing.

Lightwell object increased in size to make it easier to click.

 

Zaran

We bring 1 melee group. I think last weeks was enhancement sham, 1 dps warriors and 2 rogues and a ret pally. Seemed to do just fine considering AoE should be higher because of P2.

Wow Web Stats

 

Jarlyn

Amp Magic is entirely safe for Felmyst and should be placed on the entire raid, every attempt.

And in regards to melee, they're still very high on damage done to Felmyst herself. A quick glance at WWS parses reveals that AoE classes rape the overall meters (for obvious reasons), but our rogues are consistently very high on DPS on the boss.

 

Cybelirrae

Felmyst - WWS

As to melee, on our 1st kill we brought a slimmed down melee group (rogue, enhance, arms war, ret pally, BM hunter). Here is felmyst damage in and out for just the boss herself. As you can see I was #1 on damage done to the boss without getting airtime dps. I was 5th overall in damage (behind a mage and 3 locks, just ahead of 2nd mage). So melee is fine and actually helps kill the boss faster. Don't sit your best DPS just because this fight "feels" melee unfriendly to you.


Also, as to your point about "faster you kill it, the less things can go wrong," that is of course true with every fight. However, once your raid learns how to "do" Felmyst phase 2 properly, there are very few things that can go wrong in my opinion. We took 2 nights to learn her with probably somewhere like 50 or 60 attempts before everything clicked and we got the kill after a really long raid that 2nd night. Next reset, we wiped twice on Kalec and 3 times on Brut, but one-shot Felmyst. She seems very easy to repeat. Part of this might be peculiar to us because we have the ability to stack priests on this fight. Our first kill was 3 shadow, 3 holy. 2nd kill was 2 shadow, 3 holy.

 

• constantius

Just to reiterate in the discussion about mass dispelling that has gone on in conjunction with 3 others in this thread: it is entirely possible to hit every MD, every time, before the first 'tick'.

When all you have to do is wait for the spell to start casting and react to it, *everyone* should have 'snake-like reflexes'. It's not really that hard. Mages and rogues have had to do it for years, watching for a 1.5 second cast in order to interrupt with Kick or Counterspell. Are you saying that they literally had to sit still waiting for the cast to go off so they wouldn't screw it up?

As someone said above, just don't put yourself on the GCD. Ever. Use only 2.5 second spells while you're waiting.

And I've never seen an entire phase go by without a Gas Nova. I've seen a phase without Encapsulate (once), but not Gas Nova.

About 75% of the time, the sequence of events is:
<engage>
<heal stuff>
<CORROSION>
<use 3.0 seconds of something; 1 GHeal, 1 MF, or 2 CoHs>
<target your Mass Dispel, and wait>
<Gas Nova goes>

The only time this does not hold is if Corrosion goes off as the 5 second warning for the Encapsulate timer goes off, since she then has to decided between Encapsulate and Gas Nova, and it can go either way.

It's not a hard and fast rule, but it works for me, and gives me a visual aid to when I should start focusing on not sucking. Corrosion? Something big coming, pay attention. Cooldown up? Pay attention, something big coming.

As a side note, I regularly run 275-325 ms, btw, and if I miss a dispel, it's because *I* screwed up. Pure and simple. It's not lag, it's not latency, it's not a game mechanic ... it's me, straight up, screwing up my rotation.

For dps: on our last kill, dps in to Felmyst went mage, rogue, fury warrior, rogue, warlock. Melee does good dps.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

 

• Snowy

This isn't entirely a fair comparision, since rogues have a 1 second GCD, and CS is off the GCD. :P
(now you know why the mages bitched to hell and back for that brief time CS was on the GCD)

Paladin: Pyla
Mage: Pylah

 

Saabik

I spec protection for this fight (normally retribution) and highly recommend your engineers use Gnomish Flame Turrets or Fel Iron Bombs on the skeletons. I used 2 Fel Iron Bombs for a total of 44k, 8% of my total damage.

Saabik - WWS

Bombs average ~21k a hit, about 3% of the skeleton's total health.

On a side note, I'm going to try a ret-prot hybrid for the skeletons as I feel relatively useless in phase 1. Basically, using a near passive uncrushable set with a high block value, I was averaging 350 damage a hit from the skeletons. I would still pickup imp RF and Shield spec, but would most importantly pick up Crusader Strike for judgment uptime. Using a nightfall as well, with SoTC.

 

Meltface

As noted, the rogue GCD is 1 second, the Mage counterspell is not on the GCD. Every shadowpriest spell places us on the GCD (Mind Flay triggers it at the start of channeling). So if we are to follow your advice literally and not place ourselves in the GCD, then yes, we do need to sit still and wait for the cast.

Worst cast with 0-haste is a 3s wait from when we see the Gas Nova cast to when Mass Dispel goes off. That can be 1 tick if you account for human reactions and lag. If we're going for 0 ticks, we either need enough haste to offset the GCD and Cast delay, or we sit and wait.

That said, I think I can hit it from a normal rotation without issue. 10% haste gives (roughly) a 2.72s worst-case, which should be enough time with my lag to sit almost a full GCD and still get the MD off in time.

 

• Falk

Your understanding of latency is flawed. 400ms = 200ms to get to server, 200ms to come back. It's a round trip measurement. While we've taken Gas Nova ticks from time to time, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's possible to get zero ticks even with our latency. Harder? Yes. Too bad though - suck it up.

Also, while maybe a more linear job, how do you think rogues with 400ms kick shocks on Reliquary?

Edit: No, I'm not here to stir shit up or insult anyone. Don't take it the wrong way.

 

Kasi

RoS spirit shocks are much more on a timer than this ability. (every 5 seconds) Since rogues kick locks it out for 6 seconds its not like a rogue even needs to react. If your rogues space it apart properly, they don't even need to watch the timers. The issue with latency and instant cast or channeled spells locking you out of the gcd is a real issue. It is something I have to deal with a lot on council. I am able to get around it and still do my dps fine since I can just spam lb which won't lock me out. But if like a shadow priest I had to deal with lots of instant cast spells than waiting on a variable timer would neuter my output there.

 

Ghando

Point taken, but who cares? If you're a Priest on Felmyst, you're there to Mass Dispel. Plenty of other classes can heal or DPS or whatever, but only one can MD and that's you. I can't imagine a raid leader ever getting after a Priest for doing insufficient damage or insufficient healing during the ground phases if they were reliably getting Gas Nova dispelled before it could tick. If you're a Priest, that's your job and it should take precedence over all other things.

I'm a Shaman.

 

Halle

While we dont have much problem killing her, I didnt know about the amplify magic trick, thanks for pointing it out!

About melee: Take some arcane protection pots. Warriors make an intervene macro to another group. Rogues CoS. Shamans Ghostwolf and run.

We dont take any more than 5 though if we can help it and that's including the 2 tanks (pala/warr).

I used to be a hardcore raider, now i'm a hardcore father.

 

• Falk

Hence why I said more linear. Although, I was addressing the latency part more than the interaction of GCD vs reaction towards a mob cast.

There's a massive difference between planning around every single Gas Nova ticking once for every single priest, and planning for the occasional (15-20% of the time maybe?) tick. It's just like tank spikes on a given encounter for example - Working toward eliminating them all would make attempts more resilient VS the RNG. Yes, they may sometimes still happen, but the fewer times, the better.

I think that's the basic point both sides of the discussion are trying to make here, even if the arguments presented that lead toward the conclusion are coming from polar opposites.



Edit: Off-topic, but just to clear up any misinformation about RoS, the mob SPAMS Spirit Shock nonstop. What kicks do is lock out that spell entirely for 5 seconds. Shock itself doesn't have a 5-second cooldown. :P

 

Shha

While the short answer would be no, I wouldn't really bother with raid stacking for Felmyst. Melee does generally less damage (maybe save for warglaive rogues), is a bit harder to position for MD if you are low on priests, and is more prone to Encapsulate deaths (rogues can cloak, but melee is more clumped, and Encapsulates on MT are more rough).

However, that assumes you can really stack the raid with your ranged dps without losing any quality of players/gear. If your guild can do it, go ahead. Its sort of pointless, because any problems melee casuses are very manageable. Enrage on Felmyst is very forgiving in my opinion. Only time you will run into problems with it is during maybe 1st kill, if you tend to stack healers for progression. Healing on Felmyst isnt really hard. We started learning it with 9.5 (0.5 being the prot paladin), killed her with 8.5, and I have no worries about going there with less. Given how we had 1.5 min or so left on enrage with 8.5 healer setup, I have no doubts on subsequent kills with probably 7 healers we will be even better on it. That was with a full melee group as well.

At the end , Id like to just stress it out - Felmyst is not a healing intensive fight. While at first the aoe aura + some gas nova staying for a tick or 2 + encapsulate might seem overwhelming, and make you want to bring lots of healers - its just execution. When your MD becomes almost instant, people learn how to react to encapsulate and fall back fast, the healing becomes really easy and even boring.