Patch 2.4.2 - Patch Notes - Page 6

◊ Birdemani · 04/25/08, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Setia

I can confirm that the death messages are now in the combat log. Just suicided against those ogres up near Shattrath, and a "Setii has died." messaged appeared along the lost durability.

Will it save settings between sessions? I turn off loot pickup from my main chat window on live (Item Loot option in settings) and after a relog it will show loot in that window again despite the option still being unchecked.

Vasala · 04/25/08, 2:19 PM

I checked the Scales of the Sand vendor and I do not see the new Purified Shadowsong Amethyst pattern there so it appears to only be from SSO rep at this time.

For any curious hunters I did tame a dire raven with one of my hunter alts on the PTR and the family is Carrion Bird. Both the level 67 and 68 birds came with dive 3 and screech 5.

Mu · 04/25/08, 3:01 PM

Originally Posted by Daboran

The best suggestion I've heard in a long time - Tiger's Fury has been a pointless skill since launch, so much so I doubt any Feral even has it out of the spell book.

Mine is, mostly because cat barely has enough skills to fill up a bar. And it's good for ravaging Gamon.

• Amera · 04/25/08, 5:30 PM

Originally Posted by Fiola

Frost Nova and sheep. Two vulnerabilities specific to one class with different DR timers.

/shrug

Everyone can be frost novad and sheeped. Not everyone can be scare beast(ed) or hibernated.

Originally Posted by Mearis

Druids are by far the most hard to CC healer by a very large margin. I doubt this change will do absolutely anything, all it will mean is that druids can no longer go bear to completely avoid mana drains.

I don't really think it will change much, but my point is that it seems very...inelegant. It really seems like the can't figure out how to effectively nerf druids so they add a clunky mechanic that's more like an afterthought than an actual solution.

Neruse · 04/25/08, 5:53 PM

The current version of Scare Beast is rarely used, for good reason:

1) 10 yard range. Unless the druid is snared or incapacitated, they have a good chance at moving out of range.
2) Subject to spell pushback and interrupts. Also, bash works well as the hunter cannot dodge or parry while casting this.
3) As a spell, it uses spellhit, of which hunters have none and therefore Scare Beast has a significant resist rate.
4) Good druids wait until the spell has nearly cast then either bash the hunter or shift into humanoid form.
5) Against hunter pets the caster suffers pushback and a very high resist rate as many pvp hunters run with NR resist on their pets.

I see the PTR change as reasonable, considering the significant resist rate and the 30 second cooldown. Sure, it bones feral druids, but those are rare at the higher ratings and the tweak to Tiger's Fury as posted above would fix this issue for them, mostly.

Fiola · 04/25/08, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Amera

Everyone can be frost novad and sheeped. Not everyone can be scare beast(ed) or hibernated.

I don't really think it will change much, but my point is that it seems very...inelegant. It really seems like the can't figure out how to effectively nerf druids so they add a clunky mechanic that's more like an afterthought than an actual solution.

But a druid getting frost nova'd or sheep'd has a very different set of options than a warrior who's in the same situation.

In the end, it's about options - and druids happen to have a very diverse set of options. (HoTs that can be fire and forget, cyclone for control, mobility, charge, bash, blah blah blah).

That said, this is gonna suck for WSG. Hunters are nasty enough on flag defense without the ability to instantly fear your druid carriers.

Duilliath · 04/25/08, 7:52 PM

Originally Posted by Neruse

I see the PTR change as reasonable, considering the significant resist rate and the 30 second cooldown. Sure, it bones feral druids, but those are rare at the higher ratings and the tweak to Tiger's Fury as posted above would fix this issue for them, mostly.

That's the point - we've been saying that Tiger's Fury and Rake stink. They haven't even been upgraded from 60 to 70 and even back then they blew.
But, we've been saying this for ages and nothing came so far. There's nothing in the patch notes suggesting it'll be entered as well.

All it is currently is a nerf to a spec that already has a hard time in arenas, while effectively ignoring the one viable spec which apparently causes so much grief. I'll take the last bit 'for granted', seeing how I don't PvP as resto.

• Elendril · 04/25/08, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by Duilliath

All it is currently is a nerf to a spec that already has a hard time in arenas, while effectively ignoring the one viable spec which apparently causes so much grief. I'll take the last bit 'for granted', seeing how I don't PvP as resto.

The scare beast change will be be *extremely* powerful against resto druids. Claiming that it 'ignores the one viable spec' is frankly just silly.

Neruse · 04/25/08, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by Elendril

The scare beast change will be be *extremely* powerful against resto druids. Claiming that it 'ignores the one viable spec' is frankly just silly.

Perhaps not that powerful, but it does make it much more dangerous for aggressive resto druids to hug a hunter's nuts in feral forms. I can see the new SB being quite useful for getting a fear off when a druid goes travel form and getting a full duration viper off during that.

• Amera · 04/25/08, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Fiola

But a druid getting frost nova'd or sheep'd has a very different set of options than a warrior who's in the same situation

Completely missing the point. Three classes can use mana to get out of a snare, one can use a cooldown, but that isn't even relevant. The point is that the warrior is not specifically and uniquely vulnerable to 2 CCs from other classes. Another example would be if paladins could use Turn Evil on warlocks, and only warlocks. I'm not really sure how to explain that better; I'm not even complaining about the power of the ability, just that it seems conceptually silly from a design standpoint since nothing else in the game follows that logic.

• thevidon · 04/26/08, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Amera

Completely missing the point. Three classes can use mana to get out of a snare, one can use a cooldown, but that isn't even relevant. The point is that the warrior is not specifically and uniquely vulnerable to 2 CCs from other classes. Another example would be if paladins could use Turn Evil on warlocks, and only warlocks. I'm not really sure how to explain that better; I'm not even complaining about the power of the ability, just that it seems conceptually silly from a design standpoint since nothing else in the game follows that logic.

It used to be that way.....priests could shackle undead players and paladins were the worst enemy of any undead. I thought it was cool that I had to run away from paladins because they would destroy my undead priest. It took away a lot of flavor when they removed stuff like that.

Fiola · 04/26/08, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Amera

Completely missing the point. Three classes can use mana to get out of a snare, one can use a cooldown, but that isn't even relevant. The point is that the warrior is not specifically and uniquely vulnerable to 2 CCs from other classes. Another example would be if paladins could use Turn Evil on warlocks, and only warlocks. I'm not really sure how to explain that better; I'm not even complaining about the power of the ability, just that it seems conceptually silly from a design standpoint since nothing else in the game follows that logic.

I don't think it matters whether you're "uniquely vulnerable" to a CC or not, I think it's more important to note what types of CC can be applied to you effectively.

Since you're not complaining about the power level of the ability, why complain about Scare Beast now? It's already in the game and it "uniquely" works against druids. I'm not too familiar with hunter history, but I'm 90% sure that hunters have had this anti-druid ability since the release of the game - so why complain about the "logic" of the ability now?

◊ Lord BEEF · 04/26/08, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Neruse

The current version of Scare Beast is rarely used, for good reason:

3) As a spell, it uses spellhit, of which hunters have none and therefore Scare Beast has a significant resist rate.

The resist rate for spells in pvp is 5% (or is it 4%, I can't remember). It will succeed 95% of the time.

Originally Posted by Fiola

I don't think it matters whether you're "uniquely vulnerable" to a CC or not, I think it's more important to note what types of CC can be applied to you effectively.

Since you're not complaining about the power level of the ability, why complain about Scare Beast now? It's already in the game and it "uniquely" works against druids. I'm not too familiar with hunter history, but I'm 90% sure that hunters have had this anti-druid ability since the release of the game - so why complain about the "logic" of the ability now?

Nobody complained about the ability because it was completely avoidable due to the range and cast time. Nobody bothered to complain about the logic because they could simply ignore the fact that the ability existed in the first place.

• Amera · 04/26/08, 12:34 AM

Probably because it just got changed and thus became relevant to talk about again? It's clearly a PvP fix designed to boost a poor class (hunters) by giving them an ability to direct counter druids, who dominate the meta-game in 2v2 and 3v3 - except that it doesn't actually address any issues that make hunters bad or druids dominant, and at the same time it highlights a stupid mechanic that was dumb before and is now even more retarded.

Anyway it isn't worth arguing over a fairly trivial patch change in and of itself, I just think it is illustrative of a general design principle of attempting incredibly subtle nerfs and adjustments to fix significant problems (see: Turn Evil) rather than coming up with actual solutions and overhauls.

Originally Posted by thevidon

It used to be that way.....priests could shackle undead players and paladins were the worst enemy of any undead. I thought it was cool that I had to run away from paladins because they would destroy my undead priest. It took away a lot of flavor when they removed stuff like that.

It may have "flavor," but it was also completely broken.

Rokh · 04/26/08, 2:28 AM

Just for discussion purposes, Scare Beast on the PTR is currently not instant - instead, it works like Multi-Shot, where you need to be standing in place to use it. Slight wording error I guess in the notes. Note that it's a big deal or anything, just that it's not quite as useful in situations where you're chasing someone around a pillar.

• Gonkish · 04/26/08, 5:32 AM

Originally Posted by Amera

Probably because it just got changed and thus became relevant to talk about again? It's clearly a PvP fix designed to boost a poor class (hunters) by giving them an ability to direct counter druids, who dominate the meta-game in 2v2 and 3v3 - except that it doesn't actually address any issues that make hunters bad or druids dominant, and at the same time it highlights a stupid mechanic that was dumb before and is now even more retarded.

That sums it up eloquently, yes.

Originally Posted by Rokh

Just for discussion purposes, Scare Beast on the PTR is currently not instant - instead, it works like Multi-Shot, where you need to be standing in place to use it. Slight wording error I guess in the notes. Note that it's a big deal or anything, just that it's not quite as useful in situations where you're chasing someone around a pillar.

Well, Blizzard calls Multi-shot an "instant" as well. They're weird like that.

• Playered · 04/26/08, 7:59 AM

Originally Posted by Gonkish

That sums it up eloquently, yes.

Well, Blizzard calls Multi-shot an "instant" as well. They're weird like that.

Have there been any other spells / abilities which have gone from a cast time into a non-cast time without this restriction?
I dont quite recall the reasoning they gave (if any) back when they changed Multi-Shot into 'instant' but im certain people brought it up back then (it was a long time ago).
Im somewhat thinking that instead of making these abilities 'instant' they just changed the cast time to 0 instead while keeping it flagged as a 'casting' spell.

Regardless it is another patheticly masked attempt at weakening Resto Druids in PvP because they still cannot understand the real problems causing the issue. Im still waiting for them to consider 'touching' Warriors in any real shape or form which I think will have a much more significant impact on general class balance than silly changes like these.

Sajukar · 04/26/08, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Playered

Im still waiting for them to consider 'touching' Warriors in any real shape or form which I think will have a much more significant impact on general class balance than silly changes like these.

*Sigh*

Let's just give everyone the same tools as everyone else, make all arenas a circular room devoid of objects and pillars, then it'll be balanced and fun.

Regardless, the fact is that there is a multitude of classes which have as their optimal healer a resto druid (ex: hunter, warlock) and while this change may be aimed as a "nerf" to resto druids, it's mostly a "nerf" to feral druids since often resto druids will either be constantly shifting between forms or kiting around pillars (the main reason why resto druids are excelent in 2v2 since it allows them to remain "unharmed" while keeping their teammate alive).

Either way, this is a poorly aimed change which will basically be a minor inconvenience for a certain spec while affecting heavily an already weak (arena wise) spec.

This, in theory, also affects balance druids in arenas, although not as heavily I suppose.

• Nurru · 04/26/08, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

The resist rate for spells in pvp is 5% (or is it 4%, I can't remember). It will succeed 95% of the time.

4%, with +3% hit bringing you up to a success max of 99%.

• thevidon · 04/26/08, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Sajukar

Regardless, the fact is that there is a multitude of classes which have as their optimal healer a resto druid (ex: hunter, warlock)

For some reason it strikes me as odd that a druid is still the optimal healer for a warrior (or dead tied depending on who you talk to) over a shaman. I mean....we have WF and it still cant make up for HOT/travel form spam in terms of arena strength. I don't think that druids need more hard counters in arena; I honestly feel they are still OP. Just because you give them an extra hard counter does not mean they will decline in dominance.....especially since there are few hunters at the higher levels to start.

Ja7us · 04/26/08, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

Have there been any other spells / abilities which have gone from a cast time into a non-cast time without this restriction?

Arcane Explosion. Even when it was talented down you could cast it while moving.

Grungo · 04/26/08, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

Have there been any other spells / abilities which have gone from a cast time into a non-cast time without this restriction?

Arcane explosion (as Ja7us said), and more recently, Ghost Wolf.