so sunwell mobs aren't supposed to crush right?

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/8...8235233qp3.jpg

anyone else had their tank get crushed? let alone, after a confounding blow?

I thought it was only Kalec/Sathrovar, Brutallus and Felmyst who could not crush (Not sure on Entropius).

Each of those bosses have obvious reasons why Crushing has been disabled. Sathrovar stun + crush would be terrible. Brutallus with crushing would be a nightmare. Corrision + Cleave is already bad enough, let alone a mammoth Felmyst sized crush.

But the twins dont have much tank spiking melee hits, by comparison. There is confounding, but that (is supposed to) be the last hit they take for a while anyway.

The twin is tanked there.

twins can definitely crush. This is one of the things that makes a paladin main tank a little helpful, as they can reach uncrushable (through sunwell radiance) rather easily.

I must say as a raid leader and healing class leader the reverse, 1 group strat is definitely the most controllable. We tried the 2 group strat for 2 nights (still had shadow furies, but it was manageable), and the healing difference between 1 group and 2 is huge mainly because of the nature of Chain Heal. First few nights with 2 groups we'd usually have 1 person that just never got a single heal and no one really knew why. Now, I don't know if this was just things getting easier for healers (had near same healers every night) or if the 1 group strat really made a difference. We went from consistent 30-50% wipes on Sac to getting through the entire first phase with only a few deaths, on our 3rd night. Caught everyone by surprise. I definitely recommend at least trying this strat. We did it with 2 Shadow Priests, 2 CoH Priests, 1 DS Priest, 3 Holy Paladins, 2 Resto Druids and 3 Resto Shamans. [1 Pal on Warlock, 2 Pals + DS Priest on Melee tanks with Shaman CH'ing them and everyone else spamming the shit out of the raid]

In terms of crushing, we had a lot of issues with our Druid dying, so we switched to 2 Prot Wars, worked like a charm.

Which leads me to my next forewarning: to the Warlock tank, when you switch to phase 2 (Athy), don't run into melee range of her, she'll definitely melee you. Our Warlock reported that he normally runs into near melee range to reset his fire debuffs and she just keeps casting Blaze, but apparently she gains the ability to melee attack once Sac is dead. Keep this in mind, as it caused a much disheartening wipe. They should have died (or I'd show a WWS) but after that great attempt we had a lot of stupidity with the 'ledge boss' and finishing your stupid cast with conflag..

Hmm? They would need a set which normally would do for passive uncrushability in order to be uncrushable against twins. Warriors have a much easier time reaching uncrushable.

It has absolutely nothing to do with this, it happened to us plenty when we had everyone in the ground and were just walking forwards on conflag. (with our original strat.)

He said he's stood on her and gotten blaze, guess it was just bad luck, still something to keep in mind.

So we had our first kill last night; I was the lock tank. During P2 on Alythess, I would run right through her when she turned to shadowfury the raid. I assume that's safe since she's not going to stop casting (although it seems like she will stop casting Blaze to Conflag). I'm just wondering if I got lucky not getting melee'd on the way back out or not. I didn't run back out through her, but I wasn't that far out either. How much clearance makes me safe?

I run through her to grab the shadow nova, but swing wide on my way out. I've never had an issue.

What do people do about constant conflags on the MT and OT? our dps is making sure they're well below the second tank, yet both tanks are consistently conflaged every pull. Any solutions for this ?

Very crude 'diagram', but it's a very simple question anyway:

tank conflag <----- tank(s) - boss - melee ------> melee conflag.

I don't know if this is already discovered, but we made several attempts at twins yesterday, and I discovered that it is possible to break conflag with Vanish. I only tried it two times, so nothing is confirmed for sure yet, but in my eyes it makes sense, if she loses me out of target she also will lose her conflag target. Perhaps this is also possible for Hunters with FD?

Any kind of deaggro outright kills Conflag and Shadow Nova - Vanish, FD, Ice Block, whatever. Under the reverse strat killing a Conflag isn't a usually bad thing, but dropping a Shadow Nova and not resetting Flame Touched is a great way to get someone killed. We've wiped more than once because the aggro indicators on a Shadow Nova lit up for our hunters/rogues and they instinctively deaggroed, leading to the aforementioned problem.

What's a 1 group strat? Does everybody bunch up on the melee position? How do you deal with Shadow Furies?

I think he was referring to the 1 camp strategy, where the ranged and healers form one group, and the melees another.
(Contrary to the 2 camp strategy, where the ranged and healers split up on 2 groups, each on one pillar)

About positioning, we're having quite some problems with it. As mentioned several times, Sacrolash moves like crazy in this encounter, and having her too far away from the tank spot causes stuns in the 1 camp and therefore likely some wipes.
I can confirm that she moves when she is summoning her adds, but what about the other theory about her hitbox being larger than her melee attack range? Can anyone support/deny this theory?

Due to her moving around so awkwardly and our tanks having severe problems to keep her in this one magical spot, yesterday we tried to position her even further away from the raid, nearer to the wall/curtains (actually the beeline is closer to the raid, but the path to the camp is longer).

Together with that and her behavior, there arises another problem: parry haste.
Is it active for this encounter (seeing that she can crush)? How should the melee position themselves then. If we are tanking her closer to the wall, you either have the choice of hitting her within her parry range, causing possible parry hastes, or stepping behind her, where you are possibly not within line of sight of the healers.
So, how to deal with this? Ignore parry haste (if enabled), chain heals only on the tank to hope that it reaches the right melees?


As far as I understand, if only theory #1 (moving when adds spawn) is true, positioning wouldn't be such a huge issue, since you have some time to position her again when she has moved until the next spawn (despite when the tank is affected by a conflag, which is bad).
However, if theory #2 is also true, how to deal with that?

I've posted the Forlorn Legacy, Fusion and Showdown videos in our guild forum, and our tanks say she was tanked on the very same spot, but still shadow furies are coming through and stun the camp.

I think I know what you're talking about, I know our melee goes los sometimes, but we have a steady CH going off the tank so it's usually okay.

Parry haste wouldn't be a problem. She's a fast attack/dual-wielder, so any parries reduces the swing timer by a lot less than a mob with a 2.5 second attack speed

The problem with melee dps vs parries is lower dps.

As an above poster mentionned, chain heals will be bouncing off your tanks into the melee quite a bit.

I dont know about DE-AGGROs like fd/vanish, but immunities are VERY bad for conflag. If you iceblock/bubble/NETHER PROTECTION (>_<) while she's casting, she will randomly target someone else for the ability. IE: wipe your raid.

on a more whiny note, the second twin resetting hp when the first dies is very annoying. we usually get her to 90% from the warlock tank + shadow priest dots

Vanish "kills" conflag and shadow nova, but not FD. I'm not sure about ice block, but I can confirm with 100% certainty that conflag will still go through a FD.

We got our first kill tonight doing Sacrolash first with the one camp strat. Tanking Sacrolash can be a bit frustrating at times with how she shifts and even on our kill she shifted quite a few times but the raid never got hit with a shadow fury so there is definitely a sweet spot to tank her. I've found that if she shifts towards the curtains more it's usually not as big of a deal as if she shifts outwards. Honestly its all on your tanks to get comfortable with how she moves and find that sweet spot. The kill video from Fusion shows the tank positioning fairly well. A couple of quick marks on the floor that I reference are the triangle coming out from the border of the circle and that squiggly hook coming out from the border. If you have Sacrolash within that area and not too far out the adds should despawn halfway through their shadow fury cast on the main raid group.

Also a quick note, the ranged/healer camp eating a single shadow fury is most definitely not a wipe unless people are extremely low going into it. We found that we only ran into problems if we had multiple shadow furies go off in a row which caused healers to fall behind on healing.