They both explode dealing around 14k dmg each if someone goes out of the room so unless thats what happened thats not the 'enrage' you are refering too

No, it was the normal enrage, just 5 minutes in instead of 6.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2...8220729kl5.jpg

So last night we tried to do this reverse kill. We're fine with everything but eliminating shadowmobs attacking the raid. Is it possible to do with this strat? It sounds like they aren't completely removable. If they aren't completely removable I would tend to agree with breaking the raid up into 2 small groups, an even spread of raid and tank healers in each. Am I wrong about this an the shadowmobs are ignorable?

I was hoping to find a video of Fusions positioning in action, but from the POV of someone up top, looking down. Should be much easier to study the shadow image movement.

Here's a bit more insight to what Trolling (Hi!) is saying on our two best attempts:
1. Shadow Image - WWS
2. Shadow Image - WWS

In comparison to the WWS reports that Trouble listed, #2 looks more similar to what we can assume that we should expect. #1, however, clearly shows what we were encountering on certain attempts. It's all about tank positioning, yes, and it is comforting to know that the Shadow Images are doing equal amounts of damage to the raid in each case (Fusion vs Vindicatum). I'm not sure if we were just expecting less damage or were actually encountering more.

In terms of positioning, the healers and ranged were hugging the top right pillar (or "pot-looking thing") upon entering the room.

We were attempting to mimic the Fusion video but, while Jynx did an excellent job at editing it, it doesn't really focus on the precise positioning of where healers are in terms of their tanks. Chain Heal appears as if it's bouncing on both sides of the top platform, for example, but it could have just been a second cast. Anyway, that's part of the fight, though -- seeing a glimpse a strat and perfecting it.

TwinsReverse.wmv - FileFront.com

This is a video that uses our exact positioning but viewed from up top. The tanks do a good job if keeping Sacrolash positioned as well. We kept everyone pushed against the right pillar to reduce the number of hits and shadowfuries from ninjas since you're right on the edge of them despawning. Moving any closer increases your liklihood of getting shadowfuried.

Has anyone had Conflag targetted at anyone other than a tank or healer, during a normal Phase 1 of an "Aylathess first" strat?

We've spent several nights wiping on this now, and the only time a DPS is ever targeted for Conflag during Phase 1 has been when we were essentially already wiping (several healers and tanks dead).

I'm just curious. If she really only targets healers and tanks with it, DPS could probably get away with safely not using PvP trinkets (not that DPS is a huge issue).

Read the sticky, should answer your question.

The sticky does answer this, but you must be careful not to take your idea to too far an extreme because Shadow Priests are DPS but if they are specced imp vamp, they can pull a conflag phase 1 as well. They have to wear their trinket if you are having people trinket conflags.

Ah, I'll admit that I had not read Gurg's post regarding this. I have been operating under the assumption that all that thread addressed was whether or not we can post about an encounter yet, and did not think to look there for fight mechanics information.

Thanks though, that's a good enough answer to my question.

One strategy that my previous guild was using early on was tanking Sacrolash up top with just the 2 tanks on the top rail, the rest of the raid on the pink/purple circle in the middle of the room, and the warlock tank behind the curtains underneath Sacrolash.

Our biggest problem was the tanks up top getting too many shadow debuffs and getting them in extreme bursts (10-12 within a matter of 5 seconds or so), and not having a quick way to debuff them off. Towards the end of our second or third night someone mentioned a warlock pulling out an infernal before the pull, releasing it from enslave, and having a tank build a lot of threat on it so it would just stick to him throughout the fight.

Sure enough, the pulsing fire damage from the infernal removes the shadow debuff while doing minimal damage to the tank that it is hitting (10-15 melee damage, and a 50 fire damage pulse every 3 seconds I believe).

We tried this for two more pulls, wiping to random raid retardery, and called the raid for the night. After some discussion amongst the officers, we decided not to continue with this "trick" that we had figured out because it felt like we were cheesing the fight and taking one of the more difficult aspects of using that strategy out of the fight. In other words, we equated it to using the tree root on Archimonde, cheating and not legitimate.

Just thought I would let that cat out of the bag, I'm sure others have thought of it or even tried it, but no one seems to have brought it up yet.

How do others feel about this? Creative use of game mechanics or an exploit...basically cheating?

I'd say that it falls into that category that is a bit of a grey area between creativity and exploitation and if enough attention is brought to it then it will likely be changed to no longer work. I think it's a pretty creative solution to a problem, but I don't know if developers or GM's would agree.

why is the warlock in that video consistently jumping? Just habit, or are you stacking literally "on top" of the pillar?

Jumping is how I cancel casts most of the time. Aggro, especially for a warlock, is very touchy during that first phase until I shatter. And having to stay below both tanks on threat doesn't make it any easier.

As far as stacking litterally on the pillar, I'm not exactly sure what you mean, so I'll just leave it at this.
We are as far to the right as we can possibly be.

Has anyone tried having the whole raid minus 1-2 people grouping up on Sacrolash during phase 2? If so how has dealing with the random melee range conflag bug played out in it?

It's feasible this could work. We get at least 1 bugged conflag per p2 attempt and that would more or less be a guaranteed wipe every time. It's quite possible that we have just been unlucky.

We just strafed over until we couldn't strafe anymore, no wall jumping or anything like that is needed.

Just killed twins again and I can definately confirm that the 5 minute thing is not true, at least on my server. We came in just under the 6 minute enrage.

In the video you can see the shadow ladies exploding next to the group. How did you avoid the stuns from them? Or am I blind and can't see the people being stunned for a couple of seconds?

I don't really want to say much more about it. But rest assured, nobody ever gets stunned, and there isn't any gimmick that we figured out or anything.

edit: I kinda came off like a dick without trying to. I just want people to learn it, that's all.

We have the same thing where it looks like their shadowfurying close to the raid but nobody gets stunned. We do get stunned occasionally but it's rare. I don't know why they come so close but don't actually stun the raid.

It's weird because a couple of nights ago when we tried a similar strategy we had people get stunned every time. Mind you, we were splitting evenly b/w the two pillars (and hugging them). And the people on the right pillar were getting hit just as much as the people on the left one.