My guild is currently working on killing Sacrolash first. Seems pretty solid, our tank constantly gets conflag, but we are learning to work around it. Shadowfury stuns are minimal with proper positioning. I definately agree Sacrolash first is easier, and helps minimize the luck factor(except our off-tank chain getting conflag when PVP trinket is down). And like others we spent some attempts with bad pulls due to falling off. We have yet to see p2 of Sacrolash first but I see a kill comming soon though. We are running with 11 healers, stacking shaman for the most part.
To prevent getting a raid wipe if someone jumped down, just make sure he's killed fast so you don't get the "Instance in-combat" pulse.
To reiterate this, if someone falls down and aggroes the boss, run towards them, don't just stand there with a "lolerskates i fell down guyz" look, run at the boss, die quickly so you don't waste the other 24 people's money.
I don't think Blizzard designed this encounter for any external source of fire or shadow damage to be searched and used. We can spend several posts trying to find all possible ways to mess with this, actually it might be fun, but unless we're desperately looking to get a first kill, I don't really see the point of using a strategy only available until next patch...
Patch 2.4.2 PTR Notes:
Hellfire will no longer remove Dark Touched in the Eredar Twins encounter.
There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake
I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai
We had a fun kill last night when right as we killed alythess our second sacrolash tank died. In the past we've just called for a wipe when that happens but we wanted to see how far we could get so we told to people at the top of the aggro list to run up to the top of the ramp and to do a jump down and kite her during confounding blows. We managed to take her out after 3 minutes of phase 2 and after having one lock kamakazi the melee with conflag. In fact in some ways it was easier than trying to do it with two tanks. For any guild who has experience killing them already with alythess first I'd strongly recommend doing this in the event of a tank dying.
We're doing the sac first smart positioning as well. Theyre not down yet (3% on sac ) but it's all tweaking on the tank positioning (and damn those conflag+confound combos) and normal slow reactions that must be fixed (me including doh). Apart from that it looks really good. I just have a nagging feeling that we will be seeing an increase of 1-2 seconds on the shadow images lifespan at some point rendering the tactic useless.
. I just have a nagging feeling that we will be seeing an increase of 1-2 seconds on the shadow images lifespan at some point rendering the tactic useless.
What makes you say that, all that accomplishes is a less dynamic encounter in terms of viable strats. I have doubts that their run speed and despawn time magically lines up within a few seconds depending on positioning by pure luck.
b) Warlock tank shadowbolt resisted and blaze hit raid the next second.
To cut down on the effects of a first-cast resist, you can open with a travel time spell (like shadowbolt or soulfire) and then hit searing pain/immolate (depending on which you prefer). I'm pretty sure neither of these have travel time so you'd have to get a double resist/miss for burn to hit the raid due to a resist/miss. A minimal gain is that there's one less second for your second spell to hit when the second spell is a 1.5 second cast.
I like searing pain spam so far, but I can see how a 2.3-2.4 second cast spell (hasted shadowbolt) could maybe have an advantage since blaze is a 2.5 second cast.
During my guild's first night on the Twin Eredars, I've had a a lot of positioning problems with the reverse strategy. It comes down to two things.
One, is getting her into the spot I want her to be. The problem here is twofold. She moves very awkwardly when I try to reposition her, and on several occasions, she shifts even when I'm standing still.
Two, is there any marker other tanks use to position her correctly on the 1 pillar strategy? One attempt the ranged group never gets shadowfuried. The very next attempt when I think I have her in the right spot, we wipe due to a shadowfury on the ranged group.
During my guild's first night on the Twin Eredars, I've had a a lot of positioning problems with the reverse strategy. It comes down to two things.
One, is getting her into the spot I want her to be. The problem here is twofold. She moves very awkwardly when I try to reposition her, and on several occasions, she shifts even when I'm standing still.
Two, is there any marker other tanks use to position her correctly on the 1 pillar strategy? One attempt the ranged group never gets shadowfuried. The very next attempt when I think I have her in the right spot, we wipe due to a shadowfury on the ranged group.
She seems to move often in conjunction with casting her shadow demons. Also for a marker just watch the fusion video on the previous page, should make it pretty self explanatory (post #81).
Taking shadow damage from other sources other than Sacrolash and her shadow ninjas doesn't cause Dark touched. I've tested this with 2 items:
1- [Dark Rune]
2- [Demonic Rune]
Neither removed the fire debuffs I had or caused dark touched stack to increase or being applied.
The Hellfire working is a bug, and it's being fixed next patch.
During my guild's first night on the Twin Eredars, I've had a a lot of positioning problems with the reverse strategy. It comes down to two things.
One, is getting her into the spot I want her to be. The problem here is twofold. She moves very awkwardly when I try to reposition her, and on several occasions, she shifts even when I'm standing still.
Two, is there any marker other tanks use to position her correctly on the 1 pillar strategy? One attempt the ranged group never gets shadowfuried. The very next attempt when `I think I have her in the right spot, we wipe due to a shadow fury on the ranged group.
We have this same problem. Our tanks got the position correctly, but she moves when she spawns the adds *sometimes* and we start getting shadowfuried, or our tanks move out of los. I honestly think thats the only thing keeping us from killing her tonight she just couldnt stay in position.
We have this same problem. Our tanks got the position correctly, but she moves when she spawns the adds *sometimes* and we start getting shadowfuried, or our tanks move out of los. I honestly think thats the only thing keeping us from killing her tonight she just couldnt stay in position.
That is pretty much the only hard thing about that tactic, assuming you have people who can run away on conflag. Or not fall down when positioning. Or not pull when MD isnt up. Or not overagro.
What makes you say that, all that accomplishes is a less dynamic encounter in terms of viable strats. I have doubts that their run speed and despawn time magically lines up within a few seconds depending on positioning by pure luck.
Well, the "smart" positioning is utilizing pretty much the longest possible route in the room, so adding say, 1.5 second extra lifespan on the shadow images would probably negate the attempts to get around shadow fury on the raid even with absolutely perfect positioning. The only way to make the route longer would be to have sacrolash inside the alcoves, which would then mean no LoS for the healers making this one impossible as well.
I think that the run speed and lifespan is more balanced towards the amount of damage the raid should expect the shadow images to inflict (and the raid is expected to survive) with various positioning rather than negating that aspect of the fight fully.
Don't get me wrong though, i am not complaining about this strat being possible at all. After all, it does have its own time consuming aspects in terms of getting the exact positions and (especially) people falling down haha
It's really frustrating wiping to people falling of the balcony before the fight starts, the run back is quite far.
For my guild two nights of attempts, we only manged to get like less than 20 "real" attempts for our kills , rest of the time we are wiping like 1-20 sec into the fight due to
b) Warlock tank shadowbolt resisted and blaze hit raid the next second.
I am the lock tank for our guild and when we first started attempts I had a resist issue, I moved some gear around and I currently sit at 18.3K HP Buffed without commanding shout and 150 Hit and I rarely get a resist on the Pull with SB, I found that a SB-SP combo on the pull was the best way to go about it, if both resist I will toss a shadowburn and kind of pray but that does not happen often.
Sub 1% wipes due to DPS DCing at 15% are really annoying, hopefully they die on Sunday
After wiping to these 2 for a long time with LR's strat I can safely say sacrolash first is easier. First pull with fusion's positioning gave us ~5M dmg on the first attempt, after that she started doing the really annoying stuff like conflags on your off-tank, bugged conflags, shadowfury + conflags on dps that are not used to deal with it. It was already late so we decided to continue the next day. Killed her in a couple runs.
This method doesn't make the fight a breeze, its far from it, positioning her is a pain in the ass and she WILL make your tanking experience a living hell but its worth learning.
Something I haven't heard about other guilds doing is using a melee tank on alythess....we've been using a tauren warrior to tank alythess and it works like a charm, I just can't see him dying unless something really messed up happens.
We've had 2 bugged conflags wipe us but it can easily be fixed by having the tank back away from her on every conflag. He still has enough threat to /dance for phase 2.
Tauren hitbox helps but its 100% not necessary. (in fact it may be better used on sacrolash to give healers more LoS room)
Something I haven't heard about other guilds doing is using a melee tank on alythess....we've been using a tauren warrior to tank alythess and it works like a charm, I just can't see him dying unless something really messed up happens.
How does that work? Being the warlock tank I've had her melee me once (I got in her range to die on a safe spot), but I can't imagine she does this full time. Is there enough room to maneuver out of the blaze?
Furthermore, what's the advantage of using a melee tank?
So we've killed Twins two times now using the Lady S first strat. Raid up top on ledge, lady S down below. First time we had 4 meele (2 tanks + 2 dps). Second kill we have 5 meele (2 tanks + 3 dps). Problem here is that the warlock tank was reporting he was not getting hit by shadow blades. We made our second rogue run out away from Lady S when shadow blades cooldown is up so our warlock would get hit.
I'm wondering, are we missing anything here, is there another way for the warlock to reset his debuffs with a high amount of meele that we aren't getting, or do you just have some meele move out when you bring more then 4.
How does that work? Being the warlock tank I've had her melee me once (I got in her range to die on a safe spot), but I can't imagine she does this full time. Is there enough room to maneuver out of the blaze?
Furthermore, what's the advantage of using a melee tank?
16% fire damage reduction and a higher hitpoint pool for starters. I could see it working. How often and how hard does she melee compared to her fire spells? I imagine after a bit you wouldn't even need to melee her just dance around avoiding blaze.
So we've killed Twins two times now using the Lady S first strat. Raid up top on ledge, lady S down below. First time we had 4 meele (2 tanks + 2 dps). Second kill we have 5 meele (2 tanks + 3 dps). Problem here is that the warlock tank was reporting he was not getting hit by shadow blades. We made our second rogue run out away from Lady S when shadow blades cooldown is up so our warlock would get hit.
I'm wondering, are we missing anything here, is there another way for the warlock to reset his debuffs with a high amount of meele that we aren't getting, or do you just have some meele move out when you bring more then 4.
We run a 5 Melee group, plus 2 tanks. Melee only runs out if they get conflaged (or the tank gets confounded/conflaged) and we have had no problems keeping the lock tank up.
We run a 5 Melee group, plus 2 tanks. Melee only runs out if they get conflaged (or the tank gets confounded/conflaged) and we have had no problems keeping the lock tank up.
19.5K Fully Buffed HP helps that
/wave
edit: also i get hit by the blades, IDK about every time they cast but they do hit me with our group setup, healing isnt an issue either way however, i had 12 or so debufs in P2 because i missed a nova and things were fine
I suppose in a Sacrolash-first strat a warrior tank would be viable. The difficulty of it as a general rule is that your make your melee have to dodge blazes in addition to the tank, which sucks for obvious reasons. But in a Sacrolash first strat, the warr would have enough of a threat lead that he could just run around the room while DPS burned her down.
05/07/08, 2:59 AM
) but it's all tweaking on the tank positioning (and damn those conflag+confound combos) and normal slow reactions that must be fixed (me including doh). Apart from that it looks really good. I just have a nagging feeling that we will be seeing an increase of 1-2 seconds on the shadow images lifespan at some point rendering the tactic useless.
Similar Threads
