The only case that would work in is with Tokens, but even then you go into off-specs etc. And although the idea is good in principle, locking out loot sort of takes away fromt he randomness that the idea of boss loot was built on.

It also cuts down on the terribly itemized pieces that noone in the raid even wants. Including whats been mentioned numerous times, the multitude of daggers that get sharded the very first time they drop. The only dagger anyone is interested in is the illidan one, and thats only for the ember proc (yay for mages, resto shaman, and warlocks taking melee weapons).

On the topic of badge loot, why is there a weapon for basically every class/spec besides prot wars and prot pallies?


The main problem I see with this is those who are sitting out. In my past situation the melee group was rather cramped, an enhance shaman who was there ALWAYS then 2 dps warriors, 3 rogues, and two ferals looking for a spot. Non 100% attendance made it not much of a problem, but some nights we had more melee than slots, the majority of the time everyone just switched out for whichever boss loot was needed from, and everyones very considerate. If each boss drops these badges, people being sat for farm content are going to have a much larger bone to pick.

I personally wont enjoy the game as much if it wasn't RNG based boss loot. Eventhough I've been attending many raids for a single piece of drops but after 15 kills it still hasn't showed up. I may be frustrated at this, but if its simple badge rewards, I wouldn't enjoy it as much.

I'd like to hear more input from sp raiders on how nice/terrible the Item+sunmote turnin is. If they implemented a similar scheme for weapons(daggers hahahahahahahahaah) and offset items like the ABSOLUTELY SHITTY pvp necks from twins (seriously, let's give PVErs a season 1 level item dropping from the second hardest fight currently accessible) this could be a very good change? You could implement it in such a way that the gear swaps wouldn't just sit on a vendor, it had to be 'quested' like the naxx armor, or some similar situation like that, and it would solve the problem of seeing triple vanquisher and illidan dagger dropping 10 kills in a row.

Personally, I rather like the feel of good, old fashioned random loot; somehow, it keeps the game fun, and it makes for showing off. However, it stops being funny when, say you're DEing the same thing over and over again, while something half the people in the raid want. I could give you hundreds of anecdotes about that, but I think we've all had our share. So, let's assume you've been farming BT for a year, and have yet to see enough of certain drops. How do you fix that? Well, say after you complete the 'kill Illidan quest' AND are exalted with Ashtongue Deathsworn, you get a one time quest where you pick one or two pieces of loot you always wanted. For the sake of argument, let's say one generic ring/neck/cape/trinket/weapon pick, depending on your path (assassin, arch mage, restorer and protector) and maybe one non-tier armor class specific loot (i.e dps mail/healing mail/pally plate/warrior plate). Of course, similar quest to kill Archi, awarding the same choice from the respective instance. Ideally, not 9/10 of your healers will go for Memento, because of an unlucky streak, leaving the next 4 ones that drop to be disenchanted A bit of communication, personal priorities and planning ahead should ease the loot distribution for everyone. Not everyone will value the same items equally. As a caveat, the higher ilevel items from the end bosses may or may not be included on the selection list, depending on how steep the reputation grind is tuned to be. The inherent problem I see to this is that it only works well with reputation based instances; this would leave, say Gruul's lair uncovered, unless for some reason you could find a reason to link a quest do a different faction reputation. Also, this would most likely turn the game into a 'grind exalted and move on' fest so perhaps these changes could be introduced retroactively, as a nerf, of sorts.

On a different train of thought, the idea of tokens isn't really bad. It's the actual way they're put into the game that I'm displeased with. It's been said before, but it makes absolutely no fucking sense that the guy that sells tier 4/5 is safely in Shattrath, showing the goodies off. It also makes no sense that the tier dropping bosses would just have some uncrafted armor bits on them; the tier bosses are supposed to be high ranking bastards among bastards. So let's say Archimonde wouldn't drop 'Helm of the Forgotten ... ' but 'Archimonde's Shattered crown/cowl/helm', which, aside from being a nice, shiny trophy, still retains some of his power. Except it's broken and you can't tap into that power; you need someone to unlock it for you, for whatever modest turn in (1x Arcane Tome/Fel Armament or 1x Bolt of Cloth or heck, 1xChromaggus' Right Head, if you please, depending on how long a time sink you want the respective level of raiding to be). Same 'deliver X token to Y NPC' mechanics, a whole new feel. In theory, anyway...
Of course, it makes sense that the tier 6 vendor or turn in quest, or whatever, should at least be in the Night elf base in Hyjal, or in some danger. Maybe, but it's way out of place to have to go to MH every time you need to get a token. So let's say he's conveniently Ad'al instead, and it would still make more sense than what we have so far. You bring proof of your deeds, and it just so happens he can salvage something


As for further alternatives to raid gear? Badges are perfect system for that. However, it's flawed in that you basically need to backtrack content to get badges. Nothing wrong with that, but the ones who have the time and the guild to clear MH/BT each week, kill 4 bosses in Sunwell, and still squeeze in a weekend Kara and ZA are the ones who least need the badges, as opposed to those who are even now struggling with Solarian or HKM. So, how about limiting the number of badges a week a character can earn to say 40 (seeing as a Kara clear yields 25)? In theory, this should encourage people to get the fuck out of Kara already and do a heroic or two to get their last 3-5 badges. Now, this goes against some of the suggestions for tiered badges, but let's take this further and assume they make the really powerful ilevel 141+ items cost 200 badges, while an ilevel 115 would only cost 40. The idea behind this - unless it's really a massive error of judgment on my behalf - is that badge loot is supposed to be an alternative to raid earned gear. But a hardcore raider that only really needs a few upgrades will probably already have a healthy stockpile of badges handy, and is willing to spend them for even the smallest upgrade. By contrast, someone who's not as keen on min-maxing will be quite content with a level 115 or 128 item for that slot, both of which offer better value per effort.

As for what this badge loot should be? A bit weaker than the raiding option? A bit better than the raiding option? Personally, I think it should be a niche somewhere between two or more of the best raid drop options. Let's take, for example, physical dps cloaks for someone in mid tier 6 content, who still hasn't managed to upgrade his [Drape of the Dark Reavers]. His only options are [Thalassian Wildercloak] and [Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape]. Now, one's purely agility based, the other is rating based. Either would be a massive upgrade, but let's assume he could chose an ilevel 141 badge cloak with a dash of agility, a dash of + hit rating or a dash of + haste. This would somehow kill the proverbial two birds with one stone; firstly, it would provide a good, decent alternative to some elusive and/or highly contested piece of gear, and it would also stop everyone who's spent enough time farming from looking like clones.

With all the data Blizzard can collect and crunch, I have no doubt they know exactly how player raid activity is affected by how much drops they get. Intuitively I suspect people tire of the game the more complete their gear sets is. So while having bosses drop badges may be practical for players it would most likely lead to players being finished with dungeons faster due to fewer items being disenchanted.

I think in general the game is fine as it is. Badgegear and 10-man raid drops are good for filling gaps while 25-man raid drops is where a raider gets the majority of the gear he needs. I think Blizzard has done a better job with balancing reward with effort in PvE than they have with PvP gear.

Personally I like the anticipation of seeing if the items I can use will drop. Sometimes they never do and sometimes they do at once. If I could buy items with some raid currency it would probably end up feeling boring.

But players like random.

They just don't like random that never yields the reward.

It's basic skinnerian theory. A random reward works far better at hooking than a fixed reward... if you end up with the reward in a "reasonable" time frame. That's the clincher; after a while people stop fussing about the reward that doesn't come and turn to other activities. Be it PVP Arena farming to get a good weapon, or - gasp - stopping raiding and going to another game.

Which does suggest an hybrid system. All bosses drop random loot "as they used to". They also drop a token/badge/whatever. That token/badge yeilds ANY item from this boss table - you just require, say 2 to 3 times the number of kills in badges. If boss drops 3 items in a raid of 25 (1 chance in 8), then his drops require 20 badges from the boss to purchase. You either get lucky with the random (/cheer) or you fail and finally get it.

It can be expanded to a full zone. Early bosses loots cost 30 badges, mid-boss loots costs 60 badges, end-boss loots costs 100 badges. (I can see the outcry "but you can buy Illidan loot without killing him?"... ok, so you name the loot from badges differently, and you color it a drab color - see he purchased his loot from badges instead of getting it from the boss)


One of the thing that really causes problem with loot is the Diablo-esque set system. Without the set system, you'd probably have far less problems with loot allocation (and the randomness therein) than you'd get in an EQ-esque system where every loot stood on its own. Let's face it: the token system was invented because every "major" piece of loot had a set bonus and class restriction on it. If you removed those (and added more cross-stat usefulness), you would need less tokenization because the random would give people more chances at upgrades - even if small.

The best and easiest? way to fix this is to only have the badge vendor sell items from bosses the player has killed (flagged like attunements)

In T1/T2, you had the item drop directly. And everybody cheered about Stormrage/Nemesis combination drops.
But you also got your reward right away, and had something to show.

In Z'G/RA'Q/T2.5, you had a token drop, which required some reputation and some pointless combinaion of coins, bijous, scarabs and two (!) different kinds of idols to turn in.

In T3, you had a token drop, which required some additional scraps of your armour type and some crafting mats fitting your armour.

In BC, you have a token drop that can be turned in directly.


I think the general consensus is that the Z'G/A'Q coins and stuff were pretty whacky.
Every class had diffent flavour thingies for different items, and the only effect was that someone had to make yet another bank alt to collect and distribute these otherwise completely pointless tokens.


In T3, the Wartorn Armour Scraps were okay. They made sense, there was 1 type for each armour class.
The additional materials also alright, especially from a lore point of view. There was some whine that rogues had to pay more money than other classes, but required less materials.

From a lore perspective, that was fine. But the armour scraps still just were ends in themselves.
They only dropped in the Instance, were needed to complete other token drops, and were plenty enough that there never was a shortage. It only added overhead for someone to collect and distribute them.

For the other crafting materials, there were some random outcries that it would be too expensive for people to get their T3 sets.
It wasn't that expensive, but the point is there. You pay to wipe and learn the fight. You get a drop. Then you pay again to actually get an item from it. You'd nag your guild bank (or the scrap looter of the night) for scraps, nexii, port to the AH for the materials, nag someone for a cloth/salt/hide/arcanite transmute and fly back to turn it in.

Fun? Annoying? Your call.


The current token system picks a good compromise. You loot your token, port out to turn it in, and get summoned back.
You get less random loot, and it's nearly instantaneous.

Lorewise, these token can be nearly fully functional, and just require some adaption from a wizard (the turn-in vendor) to make it fit the player.
I mean, all other boss drops are fully functional as well, why should suddenly the token item be broken and need complete fixing?


I didn't mind the reputation requirements for Z'G/A'Q gear, actually. But then again, they're in the same league as the armour scraps, a random inconvenience.
It made trash and wiping a bit more rewarding though, knowing that you'd need some chunk of rep to get your tokens, and it prevents random selling to people who might be regarded as not deserving these items.

I really don't want to go into this argument, just hinting the possibilities.


I'm quite happy with the current itemisation with sunwell tokens/turn-ins.
Some turn-ins for exotic weapons would be nice. Feral DPS <> tanking staff, paladin tanking weapon <> caster weapon (or warrior tank weapon if you want to keep turn-ins limited).
A dagger <> sword turn-in, dagger <> axe turn-in, and a fix for daggers itself (2 out these 3 *winks).
There are itemisation issues (i.e. full-leather kits being the best for 6 physical DPS classes, the caster cloth turn-ins being always worse than the direct drops due to spirit, etc.), but it allows for some exotic gear that can be turned into something that more than one class/spec wants.


As far as the "one item that never drops" goes - these are mostly itemisation issues.

DST is the best trinket for half a dozen classes for 3 or 4 raid tiers even after being nerfed heavily twice.
Shadowmoon Destroyer's Cape is a big step up because the other cloaks from the previous tiers had roughly the same power. (I.e. well designed item after 2.5 tiers of sidegrades.)
Skull of Gul'dan and Memento of Tyrande as the first raid drop trinkets that people would actually spend DKP on.

It's easy to yell "Item X never drops" when the actual issue is the lack of meaningful alternatives in the previous tier(s).
No one would cry after Shadowmoon Destroyer's Capes if the Malchezaar/Magheridon(/Kael'thas) cloaks were not that badly itemised.


Okay, that has become pretty long, in essence:
- Token loot beats random loot.
- Token + additional stuff => item is nice lore-wise, but often just an unnecessary annoyance.
- Token + rep => item has it's pros and cons.

- Token turn-ins allow for some exotic item drops (without being auto-sharded).
- Itemisation issues are the actual reasons for many demands of more token loot/loot of choice.


Being human, I like some randomness and excitement about loot.
It's like being invited to a surprise diner. Getting surprised is nice, but getting a steak as a vegetarian definately isn't.

People persist in arguing that a random system means that it will inherently take longer for you to get your gear. This is simply NOT TRUE. As someone above pointed out above, in Skinnerian terms, the difference is simply a fixed schedule of reinforcement in which you get one piece of gear every 8 weeks versus a random schedule of reinforcement in which you get a piece of gear, on average every 8 weeks but in practice get your first peice of gear in 4 weeks, your next in 12 your third in 1 week and your 4th in 15 weeks.

Also, arguments about lore and whether the lore is better because the NPC is standing in Shat or at the back of an instance or requires you to turn in additional mats or only requires a token are really pretty far from the original point of the topic.

Like people above, I would be interested to hear from more people about how well the SP trade in's work. Specifically, has anyone run into problems with it yet, with clear imbalances showing up already? I'm just curious if the system actually does work better or if it is simply that none of the bosses have been farmed for that long so the problems haven't shown up yet, or are just starting to show.

As my vote, I think the best system mentioned so far is some sort of combination between tokens (either zone specific or not) and rep. I like the addition of rep as I think it provides a good reward for the time spent killing trash and it also guarantees that players have spent at least a certain amount of time in the instance. (Us rogues were fighting over the chance to kill trash in BT for the rep trinket.) On top of this system I think a RNG loot table with mostly goody items would satisfy the craving that people have mentioned for the element of "what will the boss drop this week." Even hardcore raiders like the showy/prestige items that add nothing to the game in terms of min/maxing. I think that it would be pretty cool if bosses had more Bear/Ember type mounts and or even a set of prestige city clothing. I would love to farm Keal if I knew that I would get the item that I wanted for sure within a certain time period and on top of that had a chance at a just-for-show Keal's Robes and/or mount.

I'd love to see something like this:
We kill Morogrim Tidewalker, he drops the following:
[Serpent-Coil Braid] - no Mage wants it, given to a Rogue who can turn it in to get [Warp-Spring Coil]
[Razor-Scale Battlecloak] - no one wants it? OK, let a Healer get some T5 healing cloak.

Maybe additionally pay 50g or something, would fix many problems.

Of course this only works with "new" bosses, where you can spread out the loot accordingly to difficulty.
And it wouldn't solve a lack of for example T5 helmets/chests when you can't kill Vashj/KT

It isn't so much that people hate the extra neck (which is just a void anyways, yippe?), its that it makes no sense, imagine if top pvpers (lets say 2200+) randomly got a piece of t4 gear (in addition) once every few purchases of pvp gear. Sure an extra void crystal is nice, but it still makes no sense.

Great ideas here on a system that seems in need of an overhaul. Personally I would miss boss encounters if the RNG was removed - there is that old die-hard D&D guy in me that wants to roll the 20... but at some point you are going to wear out your 5-man group trying to gear for Kara if your tank's shoulders don't drop on your 30th run of "X" instance. I think sharding the entire instance could be reduced (not removed) by assessing the party makeup on zone-in and replacing class gear that is not needed with gems/pots or other useful items. It keeps progression paced but does not stall it entirely, nor bypass it by letting you purchase let's say your entire D3 set only in a different color. This would be more important for smaller guilds working their way into raiding. There are definitely diminishing returns once you hit the Raid level runs as you cover more of the classes.

a) this would screw up runs with changing members royally. Why should I replace the mage who disconnected/got kicked with my hunter, when now nothing can drop for me?

b) Assuming any of the hybrid classes in the party, how would you exclude anything except stuff which has a hard coded class requirement? E.g. let's say we have a shaman in the party. He could be elemental and thus want +dmg cloth/leather/mail/shields/weapons. He could be enhancer and interested in leather/mail melee stuff, maybe also hunter items (I think Hunter D3/D4 was quite OK for an enhancer). He could be resto and interested in cloth/leather/mail/shields with +heal, provided they don't have much SPI. Or much funnier, he could be resto but gathering his melee stuff or vice versa.
There are only pretty few possiblities to shrink down the drops, and its from top side down. No pala -> no dmg/heal plate. No warrior/pala/dk -> no plate. No pala/dk/warrior/shaman/hunter/ -> no shields/plate/mail. Etc.
Considering most stuff isn't class bound (though certainly better for one class than another), this would only reduce the drops by half if not less. And would lead to c)

c) It would probably be possible to "guarantee" certain drops by opening the instance with the right group. Blizzard would have to explicitly proof loot tables against this. (e.g. 5 clothies open the instance, this means only cloth, wands, off hand stuff can drop but no shields, ranged weapons, relics, 2h weapons except staffs. , leather, mail, plate. Then switch in the normal crew for the run. Imagine a loot table which had a plate chest, a wand, a melee trinket, a leather girdle and a caster staff. Bingo, you now have a 50:50 chance of getting your wand instead of only 20%).
Much of this could certainly be overcome by creating the loot only on attacking the boss. But that would go against their current concept of loot generation and might still be open for exploits (e.g. 5 clothies atacck boss and reset/wipe. Does his loot get reset also?) And yes, this sounds illusionary, but who wouldn't help their MT get the tanking sword from Mecha hero like this, if it was possible to game the game design?

d) from where would the enchanters (and the rest also) get their (higher level) enchanting materials?

e) what would happen if a boss had nothing eligible on one of his loot tables? No drop at all?

f) I like the idea that any boss drops *something* which can be used by some party member. Like potions/ flasks/gems, maybe other crafting materials. This is basically the idea behind the Primal Nethers and the badges.


Any proposed new loot system has to somehow give answers to a) - e) and probably a few more questions

*** WARNING, ANECDOTAL STORY BELOW ***

Do you still remember your first amazing epic?

For me, it was the damned azuresong mageblade. I say it with love love and contempt.

For three months, I made 100% attendance to my guild's raids. I climbed to the top on DKP as others bought items or missed raids.

And yet still, it didn't drop. Twelve raids in a row.

I finally take a day off from raiding. Guess what? It drops! I'll never forget that.

*** END ANECDOTAL STORY ***

Now, why do I make this story? Because you always remember your losses, or the item not dropping, more than actually getting it. I honestly don't remember when I actually got it after that. I remember it being a bitch to get.

That is why it's addicting. It's the same in gambling. Take sports gambling for instance. People remember their losses far, far better than the wins. It's those losses - that damned loot NOT dropping - that makes you want to go back.

Would tokens take out "frustration"? Yes. But until that frustration reaches a breaking point, it's a good thing for Blizzard.

Making everything tokenized would also take out most of what makes raiding - and getting shiny epics - addicting.

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but why not "tokenize" old raid content?

I'd absolutely love to run AQ40 for a lame meteor or tentacle trinket. Sure, it would remind me of the old days of running ZG with 20 people just for 2 enchants, but why not? You could get thoe deathknight alts geared up nicely I'd imagine.

I really, really love the idea of keys dropping from a boss which can be used to get items. I wish they would do this as the token system instead of the current one, if only for lore & flavor reasons. It doesn't make a lot of sense that you can bring this random token to some guy somewhere and get amazing loot, but it feels right to do so from the boss himself. I don't think I'd want a key that could get anything off the loot table, but having some would be good.

I also think that Blizzard has done well with the notion of the badge loot. They've used it to plug some holes in the itemization they have and have used it to give people some baseline gear, just in case RNG is a cockblock. This is especially important for weapons given how much of a boost a weapon can give to a player's performance.

I also think that blizzard needs to continue to make subpar or sub-optimized gear, and that gear needs to drop too. Part of it can be not optimized for the best spec, and part of it can just be oddly itemized. Why? Because people enjoy figuring out what is better and what is worse. They like making those judgments. And it's important as a gauge of how good things are - to see how bad things are. What they've screwed up in is making so much of that the gear for specific specs over others. But bad loot should exist.

I have to disagree with this. What is the point of having a boss drop loot that is just going to be sharded every time? Just have him drop a void.

Raid drops should all be well-optimized for at least one raiding class/spec. I believe Blizzard tries to do this, but just isn't up on their theorycrafting. And bad itemization is certainly not always intentional, as they have gone back and re-done gear when people complained.

I think badge gear should be less well optimized, however...as it often is now from what I understand. Badge gear should be "good enough" to fill a slot when the RNG just won't help you out, but you should still desire the drop since it's better.

Badge gear can serve as a gauge for how good the drops are...make them the same ilvl as raid drops from tier X but stat them poorly. Non-raiders will still collect badges since the gear will still be upgrades, but raiders will know they have the better loot.

Quite honestly, subpar drops are a big part of the frustration with the RNG. When a boss drops, all the loot should be potentially beneficial to the raid. It makes no sense to have drops that will always be sharded...it's like the boss dropped less loot that week. Think of it like this...imagine all sub-optimal gear is taken off the loot table so all that drops are items raiders might want. However, the boss rolls the RNG and drops 0-3 items per kill. That system is essentially what we have now, with junk in the loot tables meaning the boss basically dropped less loot that week.

We're doing this completely backwards, where we name a system and then analyze what we do or don't like about it. Instead lets try looking at what we do and don't like, independent of the system and then coming up with a system that fits that. Obviously we don't agree on everything, but everything up to this point looks a bit too much like every rogue with warglaives and a dst likes random loot and every rogue w/o wants a badge system.

Here's mine. I admit some of these I have a very specific idea how implement that may color my view, but I can't avoid that. I think this thread would be more productive if mor epeople thought about / posted what they wanted, and then people came up with systems to achieve that, rather than guessing answers and then checking how well each answer fits.

Good:
Some element of surprise. I don't even want anything from BT/Hyjal and I still run up to the boss after it dies to see what dropped. Every time we kill Rage I still run up hoping we finally see that stupid offhand that I think 6 people in our raid listed the other day as the thing they need most from hyjal. Also, if we knew everything ahead of time, I think a lot of guilds would have trouble getting people that are 100% certain their loot isn't dropping that night. In the long run, if people are hugely affected by that, you don't want them, but on a given night, if a friend calls and wants to go see a movie, and you know there's no chance you're getting loot, that's going to make that run a bit less attractive.

A feeling that your effort will actually be rewarded. This comes in 2 ways, 1 that you don't get the feeling you're going to clear an instance 50 times and still not have the thing you want, and 2 that you're not forced to do an instance long after you don't want anything there just to get loot others need. When they added rep rewards that actually mattered to ZG I was thrilled to know that I wasn't going to be a complete slave to the RNG for once.

Allowing people to catch up to an extent via more easily obtainable gear after the fact.

Some sense of control. Frankly, I think most people like the token idea not because it actually produces a better end result of gear, but because they feel empowered.

Getting some off spec gear. One danger of the token system is the concept that off spec gear would be all but eliminated. I think almost every serious guild would choose to give a raiding upgrade to anyone over giving dps gear to a tank or whatever, but I think being forced to have extra off spec gear is actually a good thing in the end.

Some level of status symbol to gear.

Bad:
Issues where some item never ever dropped. I think as much as people like an element of surprise, having ~1000 or whatever less RDPS than some other guild because they have 3 sets of warglaives and 9 DSTs in the raid (3 hunters, 1 feral druid and a whole melee group) where as your guild that has been clearing things just as long has 0 glaives and 2 DSTs is stupid. Yeah, you wiped at 2% on brutallus the same night they killed him. That's cool.

All of your work farming an instance seeming wasted because some guild 6 months behind ends up with loot just as good.

Wasted gear. I wrote out 3 different paragraphs about this, but all of them are really coming up with ways not to have these bad things happen, which I think belongs in a separate post.

Needing instances you want to have left behind a long time ago.

Being able to completely stack gear on tanks. Obviously most guilds do this whether just strait out giving it to them, or some sort of more subtle way, and its obviously the fastest way to progression. But its also kinda cheesy and I don't think its a good game mechanic. I think it creates tension in guilds (I know our rogues weren't happy about not getting much t3). I think that a universal limitation on how much you can do it that all guilds face would be a good thing.

Armor classes. This is just dumb and I don't think it adds anything to the game at all. From a lore point of view, its stupid that bosses that are obviously casters drop plate items and bosses that are obviously warriors drop cloth caster stuff, so I think we can throw out the lore justifications right off the bat. Seriously, what does a usually meaningless armor difference do to make the game more enjoyable. All it does is create a flimsy implication that this item is for priests rather than druids, or that this amazing caster item that all the mages would love is actually limited to elemental shaman. Seriously, how many guilds wouldn't be just a little bit happier if they didn't have to deal with rogues complaining that warriors and hunters were stealing their helm, or hunters complaining that they're denied the best helm in the game for them because its leather when that doesn't matter really at all. Having many items that are clearly implied as being for one class via their armor level that are just as good for other classes is dumb. To clarify, I don't object to armor classes on items you're wearing, but the armor count coloring whether a mage or an elemental shaman gets something is stupid. I can't get around answering this one, but just make a crafted item or a vendor or something that can take that sweet magical cloth chest piece and reinforce it with leather for me, or a vendor that can for 20g shave this leather chest piece thin enough for a priest to wear it or whatever.

And lastly, just let people DE stuff in the trade window already. Enchanting should not be held as a viable profession off your ability to get DE'd matts more easily than other people. Make enchanting good enough to be a viable profession without the monetary issue of being able to de your gear (which it is), and let enchanting matts come from old gear regardless of who had it.

The problem is that occasionally items become useful to certain raids with certain kinds of bad luck on drops that wouldn't be useful to other raids. The example that comes to mind is [Garments of Temperance]: until ZA's release in 2.3, it would be quite possible for a priest to want to use that if they hadn't gotten, say, T5 to drop. (Or, for that matter, a really unlucky shaman with no qualms about wearing cloth.) Now, of course, with [Robes of Heavenly Purpose] and [Gown of Spiritual Wonder], it's a void crystal.

The loot from later instances should be better than the loot from earlier instances. Currently, this is achieved partly by jacking up the item lvl of the loot, but also by adding more stats to the items from later instances (ie haste, armor penetration). This takes advantage of the item budget efficiency granted by more inclusive itemization. I think the reason for this method of scaling loot is that Blizzard is afraid to create high ilvl loot. The side effect of this loot-generation strategy becomes apparent when stats have far-from-linear scaling for some classes. Hunters have to relearn how to play as they make the T6->Sunwell transition and start gaining large amounts of haste. Rogues gaining armor penetration creates complications for the value of warp-spring coil, executioner, and curse of recklessness, and makes the fact that different bosses have different armor values a major pain. Lifebloom rotations also fundamentally change at a certain threshold of haste.

What would be the problem with having similarly itemized items available across all tiers of loot, and simply sending ilvls into the stratosphere to create the proper scaling of character power with progression?

One thing that could be is that loot that is not wanted could be turned in for a factional currency which could be used to purchase items that are wanted.

EXAMPLE:

The premise could be that the Cenarion Ex vendor has many items from people that have managed to come out of SSC alive. He will give you 1 Cenarion token for that [Belt of Crap]. It takes 10 Cenarion tokens to get the [Boots of Awesome] you want. You must also be exalted with Cenarion Ex to be able to purchase those boots. He has all drops that are available inside of SSC only and prices are appropriate to the level of difficulty of obtaining them yourself.