Spyd

I used 3/3 Imp Flamestrike and 4/5 Impact.

 

Teez

We've just begun attempting M'uru running myself & a feral tank as humanoid tanks and this comment really stood out - I realized full well that he was going to be taking more damage, particularly due to the lack of spellreflects, but we've been looking at him taking 2-2.5x as much damage each attempt tonight, getting bursted down from full to zero in <1.8sec during flurries on occasion - is this normal? It seems a bit excessive, I figured the damage margin would be around 15-30% at most, but right now it's completely out of control, and on some attempts simply unhealable it seems.

I have a sneaking suspicion that my starting to gear for avoidance is paying off strongly on this fight, his avoidance is considerably lower as far as I know - might that be the cause? (his gear here for reference)

That being said, my side is going flawlessly, with two rogues + a hunter basically stunlocking the mage to death (the same thing is happening on the druid's side, we even swapped dps groups around to see if one group was just doing a better job at controlling the mobs than the other, which wasn't the case). We're running two melee groups (with a hunter attached, each) to deal with sides, which seems like it's working out for the most part... minus those tank deaths.

 

• Intermission

We usually have 4 hunters per raid, so this is what we did. (We also use the same method with 3 hunters). Note that you cannot MD every Sentinel, there simply arent enough MDs. Because of that problem, we made a simple system so the tank and hunters know whats going on:

We tank them to the left (as you run in). Any Void Sentinel that spawns on the right gets MDed across the room. Any Void Sentinel that spawns on the left gets picked up by the tank himself. One hunter keeps track of the MD cooldowns and watches Muru closely when a Sentinel is due to spawn (massively black lightning, hard to miss). This hunter makes the appropriate calls when the beam happens:
"Tank, entrance side"
"Tank, kiljeaden side"
"Tank, middle"
"<hunters name>, misdirect to tank"
"<hunters name>, misdirect to tank, watch out kiljeaden side group its running past to you"
etc.

With 3 hunters, its possible to not have MD up. IE, 4 right hand spawns in a row. When this happens, the hunter arcane shots it and runs over to the tank. The tank Exercises/Shield Slams/Mangles it, and the hunter grabs a heal from the shadowbolts he most likely will take during the process. OR, the tank runs over and gets it and hopes for the best (no Darkness). The main reason why we MD them is because when we were first learning the fight, they simply did not die before the next Void Sentinel spawned. MD was the obvious choice. We now kill them just before the next one spawns, but certainly not quick enough for our tank to run around. Our tank also tanks the Void Spawns, moving them around is like a walking Shadowbolt Volley death-zone.

The same hunter that calls the Void Sentinels also tanks the Fury Mage on the ranged side. Using a warlock to tank would be a massive synergy loss (unless you have SP's and caster dps on the humanoids), we have 4 hunters and a prot warrior. I make sure I'm targetting the Fury Mage and spamming arcane shot so it goes off as soon as it's in LoS through the door (we're on the entrance side). I also lay a frost trap at the door which helps for two reasons: a) slower mobs incase our tank misses an attack, and b) it usually serves as an initial aggro tick for me, so I take the first fireball 90% of the time. Being survival means I have 8-10% more HP, and take 4% less damage than the BM hunters. My threat is obviously not a problem either, and I can remove salv if needed. We nuke the mage first -- with plenty of multishots on the other two humanoids -- and then kill the zerkers, whom by now have sunders up.

 

Illundai

Important to note is that the humanoids seem to not have Sunwell Radiance, so this means that you can stack avoidance without penalty. Also, the mobs are lvl 71 so you can drop quite some expertise/armor and get more avoidance instead.

 

Animosityftw

Hey guys, my guild has been going at M'uru for a few days now, and it seems progress has slowed now and its an issue I haven't seen anyone come across on any forums. Our tanks die one way or another, every single attempt. My healers are telling me its impossible to keep the raid up and all 4 tanks with only 6 healers, so I can't help but think I need to better set up the healing. The humanoid tanks can't be kept up solo, which is really sucking the healers time down. We've been using a paladin on the Prot war who tanks humanoids, with a raid healing shaman helping. Opposite him is our feral, healed by a priest, with that sides shaman helping him. Once they have both healers though, the Sentinel warrior dies because his paladin tells me he needs two healers as well. I tried adding a resto druid to hot all the tanks, but that didn't work either. It seems the second a humanoid healer tries to help out the sentinel tank, a humanoid tank dies.

Here is WWS:
Wow Web Stats

I'm thinking one healer should be able to keep up a humanoid tank plus the DPS team on their side, so I'm left with either my healers are sucking or the tanks are not gearing properly. They have both logged out in their sets for this fight, so maybe someone can help here if they just don't have the avoidance needed:

The World of Warcraft Armory Prot
The World of Warcraft Armory Feral

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Onox

The worst burst damage for us seemed to come from the mage so we kill it first. I also make sure to bash one of the melee adds the first time it gets its buff up. I recently rerolled so i don't have all the items id like to use for this fight but even with about 62% avoidance the melee adds don't seem to hurt much. Our other side tank has about 10% more. I was being healed by a priest and also getting some hots from a druid, and it seemed to work fine.

 

EllTrain

For what it's worth, I can keep the sentinel tank up just fine solo. I have a priest keeping an eye out and has landed some clutch shields and flashes.

Is the sentinel tank missing any shadow bolts (forget the exact name)? If so, he is going to die. What about Ironshields? He should probably be chain chugging those also.

His gear: The World of Warcraft Armory

 

• Falk

You may want to reconsider your Feral's gems/enchants and what buffs/debuffs DPS on his side keep up. I tank all 3 adds from the get go, while there's a sheep and spell reflect on the other side, and still take similar or often less damage.

Edit: No, I'm not saying Ferals are better than Prot warriors here. I'm saying there's a lot of other factors, many of them more significant, than the tanking class involved here. Types of gems/enchants, group composition and buffs/debuffs, interrupts, CC, how long mobs stay up, order of DPS due to threat concerns, etc all can affect damage taken. For us, both sides work. That's all that matters.

 

• Latito

You're feral needs a lot of help gearing. While I'm not an expert at which pieces are the best I know for damn sure that having 9.89% hit is absurd. Nevermind when dps'ing, but as a tank? As a tank on a lvl 71 mob is beyond laughable. Fix his gear, fix his gemming. My guild uses a feral on each side, both with *near* hit and exp cap, cap armor and ~70% avoidance. Remember, these are lvl 71's, not 73's. Makes a damn lot of difference when considering hit, exp and to a lesser extent armor and avoidance.

Disbanded Recruiting!

 

Viv

It'll probably help to swap your humanoid tank healers so the warrior gets Inspiration buff from the priest (which would be largely or completely wasted on the bear).

A warrior tanking humanoids can be solo healed by a priest in my experience (Wow Web Stats).
However that is very much a full-time job, you will very rarely have the luxury of throwing off-heals to sentinel tank or anyone else - even the seconds in between the humanoid packs are precious for your tank's survival as that's when you can spare the global cooldown to stick a fresh Renew/PoM on him, to help take the edge off the brutal incoming damage while all 3 adds from the next pack are alive.

You say that having a resto druid HoT the tanks didn't work - in what way exactly didn't it work for you?
We've found that extremely helpful for the sentinel tank's survival in particular.

 

Monique

True, he's well beyond crit immunity, unnecessary agi/hit gems when he could've just gone for full agi. I'm at more avoidance than he has, and my profile is unbuffed and far from the most spectacular gear available. I'm getting 70% avoids on the berserkers now after some small re-evaluation of gems, enchants and consumables. Spot on crit immune for level 71 mobs thanks to my utility belt with a 10 resilience gem, slightly under armor cap at 31,8k. If you want to get some ideas how to kit an unlucky-with-loots feral, check my profile. It's what I used for M'uru last night quite succesfully, finally passing to P2, heh.

He should probably get the badge tanking cloak, and definately reconsider especially the 10hit gems. Agility is the most beneficial stat for feral druids in all forms, and for this fight there is no such thing as too much dodge! My longevity went up considerably after I increased my dodge by 10%, from 60 to 70%. It's a 25% reduction in damage taken, if all other stats remain the same.

 

Amonra

My guild has been stuck on phase 1 for much too long, so I'm really looking for some help as to what we can do to improve.

We have 6 healers, a feral tank (at exit), 2 x prot warriors (1 at entrance, one on void sentinels) and a paladin tank for the void spawns. DPS doesn't seem to be a problem - we usually have the adds dead before the next wave spawns, and are on course for killing Muru after about 7 minutes. The feral tank and paladin tank are generally okay, and we are mostly fairly good about picking up the adds as they arrive. We don't sheep any of the adds.

Our big problem is the two prot warriors - they keep dying. A druid is assigned to keep lifebloom stacks on the tanks, plus they both have a dedicated paladin healer. The tank at the door will be getting some chain heals bounced off him as well.

Unfortunately we never get much feedback on why the tanks are dying beyond the fact that healing couldn't keep up. From what I've read in this thread, and from seeing how other guilds fight, it seems as if we should have enough healers so i'm a bit stumped as to where we are going wrong.

Our tanks are wearing pretty similar gear - one linked here. They both wear their standard tanking gear on the fight - would they be better with higher avoidance sets (I'm trying to convince them that they would) and if so then does anyone have suggestions on what pieces should be changed?

If not gear then is there anything else we could be doing wrong? I don't think we use scorpid sting on the adds which I'm guessing would be a pretty big damage reduction (although would cost a little dps). Sheeping an add would again be a pretty big damage reduction - is this worthwhile?

 

Beace

We've really only had one nights of tries on him so far. Looking through the WWS, I was surprised to see I (feral druid) took a lot more damage than the prot warrior on the other side. But, for every time I died (which wasn't many), he probably died around 3 times. Maybe I live through spikes easier for some reason, dunno.

 

KamPa

We tried with single healer on add tanks as well, but when Berserkers get Flurry(no sheeps), it becomes very spiky and difficult to heal, so it's pretty much 2 healers, with one constantly spamming, and second throwing big heals once in a while, but at the same time trying to assist Sentinel tank. Which on the other hand is one of few things remaining and leads me to a question - how do you assign healing on them? One full time Paladin can't keep up at times, especially if he has to move to reach tanks on some corner spawns. We had Druid assisting with HoTs, but it seemed like extra healer is needed from both sides - which on the other hand means add tank is getting less heals.

And small thing - is Negative Energy affected by Amplify Magic?

 

Pentamorfi

You need to be more flexible with regards to where the sentinels are tanked - you can tank them on the left side just as easily. Just let it depend on where M'uru decides to spawn every odd Sentinel. If it spawns on the left side, for example, you can misdirect the next Sentinel to the tank in the case a) it spawns in the opposite side and b)Darkness is coming soon and your tank won't have time to drag the Sentinel across the room. your tank just needs to be very aware of where he is, whether there are void Spawns up, what's the timer on Darkness, whether the void spawn tank can make it across the room dragging them with him safely etc. Between Intervene and Intercept, your tank can move around the room with a lot of ease IF you're fast enough with killing the Sentinels. Which brings me to my next point - 2 warlocks aren't gonna cut it, neither for AoE not for keeping up with the Sentinel Spawns. We use 3 warlocks and a mage on them and have 2 of our priests put VT/SW: P on them as they pass by.

Also, when, for example, your tank is at the bottom left side of the room and the next Sentinel is spawning at the top right, and your tank calls out for an MD, he can move in such a way that the MD'ed sentinel won't go anywhere near the range groups. Basically, in this specific example, the tank needs to move to the right side of the bottom ranged group (meaning the top ranged group won't have to move to avoid the aoe pulse). Then he moves to the left side of the bottom ranged group, forcing the Sentinel to pass through the Darkness, so the bottom group won't take any damage either. Of course, for this to work you need the previous sentinel down in time.

 

dakalro

3 Warlocks on AoE + a quarter of another ranged (when falling slightly behind shout for a few extra bolts) on sentinels + 1xSW:P was the sweet spot for us. When unlucky with crits on Sentinels it will save you, otherwise it eventually gives freedom to also do some M'uru dps. Also AoE is a matter of finding a fixed number of Seeds for spawns to die, never ever seed until they're dead. In the end your sentinel dps will learn how to manage very close to 100% cast times between M'uru, Sentinels and spawns.
While it's cutting it close almost each spawn I've only ever seen a wipe once because tank wasn't on Sentinel (no MDs, 1 warrior tank just goes to wherever they spawn) in time, and that could have been attributed to misjudgement on how fast the Sentinel would die.

 

Teez

In short, yes, gear for more avoidance. I should be logged out in mostly avoidance gear right now to give you an idea of what I'm running. My dodge goes up to ~38.5% with raidbuffs / consumables, it'll be even more tonight when I'll start running agi pots instead of a flask. We don't bother with scorpid or anything of the like, just TC/Demo (non improved) are plenty to keep me alive comfortably with one healer.

The biggest noticeable changes to the tank you linked I'd suggest would simply be running The Unbreakable Will with mongoose, and running pendant of titans (or the kael'thas turnin reward neck). If he has neither, go as far as using the Maiden one, though at that point the SSO tanking neck should be considerably better assuming he's aldor. Swap to a rifle of the stoic guardian if available, too. Run agi food & agi pots if he's not too broke to do so; it does end up being quite a bit more expensive than flasking given the rate at which you can be ready to pull again on this boss.

On the pull, make sure you hit everything with a thunderclap, have a spell reflect ready in case the mage gets a fireball off on you (we DPS tank/stunlock the mages, so its just important on initial pickup), get a demo shout up when aggro is somewhat comfortable, and save concussion blow and/or moroes' trinket for the Berserkers' flurry. Using cooldowns appropriately on flurries basically takes all the oomph out of them and basically results in healers not even noticing any change in DPS taken.


Edit: I also have an enhancement shaman in my group which nets me another 3% or so dodge since he's twisting GoA; Mongoose procs on top of that etc., you're looking at ~45% dodge at the end of the day.

 

Anaram

I believe this largely depends on your setup. Looking through our first kill WWS it seems to have ~92* seconds from when first (misdirect) shot hit Entropius to him finally getting defeated. At the time of the kill, 22 people were still up.

I believe phase 2 can be prolonged quite a bit if you play all your healers to their strengths. We had 1 pala, 1 priest (DS), 2 shamans and 2 druids for healings:
-Paladin healed the Entropius tank (with druids rolling an additional lifebloom on him).
-Priest healed his own group (renews, flashes and binding heals) and helped a bit on one of the caster groups.
-2xShamans healed melee (total of 6-7 melee including pala tank and feral tank. Some chains linked to main tank also)
-The druids covered the rest of the raid (shadow priest groups and the tank group).

With only one melee group, the rest of the raid can spread quite good thus preventing linked chains. The melee which has to be clustered can be covered with chains (that conversely benefit from clustering). Clustering up more people than you can cover with chain heals (and possibly CoH if you brought one) seems like begging for trouble.

We used "only" 3 shamans for the kill and things felt quite stable although we are probably a bit better geared than first guilds that made the kill. We tried 4-shaman strategy (with 3 resto+ench) but that caused some problems since lifebloom healing on tanks ended up being quite instrumental to having things stable in phase 1. In the end, an extra bloodlust or totem set wasn't really needed.

--

Our add killing strategy was nothing too special, in the end just having a tank grab a mob & focusing it down on caster side was sufficient (2 sheeps with some base aggro generated by tank in case of a break). On melee side we had our retribution paladin pick up the mage, rogue kicked it and we moved it to the warrior tank who swiftly taunted it up. After one spell reflect, rogues could use bladeflurry(?). We sheeped 1 zerker on melee side also.

Overall we wiped about 30 times to P2 (perhaps 15 times with entire raid up). Practicing positions in twins room helped a lot with that and P1 was definitely where vast majority of our wipes were, approximately 90% to 95%.

--

*At least I think it was 92 seconds, feel free to try & decipher the WWS yourself.

 

Cherob

The set up we've done the best with is 2 ferals on the doors, a warrior on sentinels, and a pally tank on spawns. We use a priest for each feral, a shaman chain healing the raid, me (resto druid) lifeblooming all four tanks, and 2 paladins on the sentinel and spawn tanks with occassional heals to the raid. The big problem we've seen is almost unhealable spike damage hitting the void sentinel tank when he moves just out of range of the paladins. To the contrary to a post earlier in this thread, it's quite possible to hit all four tanks if positioned right. Generally, I'm easily fighting for one or two on the healing meters.

 

ionlylooklazy

How much time are you guys having between sentinel spawns? In the holy priest class thread, some priests mentioned being able to finish p1 near or at 100% due to having time to regen between sentinel spawns. For my guild, it seems that as soon as one sentinel dies, the tank is already positioning to pick up the next, which is just enough time for me to hot the void spawn tank, and put a hot on the sentinel tank before going back to heal the sentinel tank.