Everyone should watch the Drow video for something truly "different" -- even if you've killed M'uru and seen a half-dozen videos of people DPSing humanoids, watch this one: Drow_Muru_Kill.wmv - FileFront.com
This seems a lot more controllable. I like it. I don't think it's necessary to have such a caster heavy raid either. The mages are probably interchangeable with other classes. It seemed like they got through phase 1 a lot faster as well.
The only thing I couldn't see from the video was how they were stopping the mages from standing out of range and pelting the paladins with Fireballs. My best guest would be interrupts, but it's hard to see in the video.
This seems a lot more controllable. I like it. I don't think it's necessary to have such a caster heavy raid either. The mages are probably interchangeable with other classes. It seemed like they got through phase 1 a lot faster as well.
The only thing I couldn't see from the video was how they were stopping the mages from standing out of range and pelting the paladins with Fireballs. My best guest would be interrupts, but it's hard to see in the video.
We just counterspell the mages so they run over to the Paladins. Just be sure to have a shaman ready to shock when the counterspell resists.
You need really good geared protection paladin to use this tactic, we tried it on one of our first wipe days and although there was a significant dps increase we've got to give it up, because keeping paladin tank alive was almost impossible.
Actually, with proper dps optimization on M'uru/Sentinels it's possible to pass the 1st phase in 5 minutes with "standart" 3,5/4 dd on sides strategy.
Our guild has gotten to p2, but one thing that prevents us from consistently getting there is melee crits from Fury Mages. Now, crits are rare, but they do happen for about 9k+ and it usually results in a death--
O_o???
I'd like to chip in that this fight has been the most demanding personally in terms of research, preparation of gear (and weekly consumables D: ) and execution. The only thing that comes remotely close is getting an FR set together for Illidan a year ago, plus P2 tanking there.
Feels the most rewarding as well though. :P
Edit: To be more useful, is it too tight to spare a GCD for a taunt on the caster assuming it's the warrior tank's side tanking only the berserkers? A feral shouldn't have problems picking up all 3 mobs. In fact, the extra Swipe crits/rage gen actually generate more threat.
Our ferals pick up all three mobs with little difficulty and obviously entry is tougher. We do find it interesting in the back, where I DPS, when the mage mob just decides to run to the middle of the room, cast 2-3 fireballs, and then run back over to the druid. They clearly have a reset mechanic so that mobs dont just aggro onto healers, but it can clearly get screwy pretty easily.
I found the easiest way to DPS was to single target kill the first mob, we go zerk, mage, zerk in order, and then use all multi target abilities on the mage.
Is anyone finding themselves having aggro issues on the berserkers at all on the sides? I am just curious as to the attack rotation that feral druids tanking the south sides are using when you have sweeping strikes and bladeflurry going on the two berserkers and if you see the rogues/warriors ever snapping aggro on a berserker..and all of your shaman twisting GOA and WF for your sides or are they only doing GOA for mana issues?
I've been tanking close side since our early attempts. The last few days I've gone to letting the mage aggro melee while I concentrate on the berserkers. If one of the melee on my side is noticeably taking a beating from the mage I hit my target mage macro and taunt asap. This allows me to apply FF on both the zerkers and alternate mangle between the two while swiping of course. By the time the group has the mage dead I'm easily 10k+ threat on both and have had no problems losing aggro.
We do find it interesting in the back, where I DPS, when the mage mob just decides to run to the middle of the room, cast 2-3 fireballs, and then run back over to the druid. They clearly have a reset mechanic so that mobs dont just aggro onto healers, but it can clearly get screwy pretty easily.
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That's pretty odd... over all the pulls so far while juggling threat on three mobs to stay over Blade Flurry/Cleave/Whirlwind, melee have occasionally pulled more or less when Omen says it would, and I (while keeping an eye on the other mobs) tend to build threat on the first DPS target till about 30k, then completely ignore it while getting the other two mobs up as well. This means that the Fury Mages can go a long time without much threat applied to it, or other times have a ton unloaded on it and then have it left alone after, but every time someone pulled aggro on it, it was confirmed they were over by Omen, which implies no threat reset
Two explanations I could think of for that rubberbanding you note are ES/POM/Lifeblooms as well as Primal Fury procs (believe me, there are a -lot-) generating enough aggro to overtake whichever healer had aggro at the time, as well as the fact that aggro can change but mobs finish casting whatever spell they are on the target they started it on.
Warrior tank on a twins kill: Adaon - WWS, avoiding 33.3% of all hits.
Same tank on a night of M'uru attempts, humanoid tank duty: Adaon - WWS, avoiding 64.6% of all hits.
Same tank, different night, as a sentinel tank: Adaon - WWS, avoided 64.9% of all hits.
Pally tank on Felmyst skeletons: Waristar - WWS, 46.8% avoided.
Same pally tank on M'uru void spawns: Waristar - WWS, 73.9% avoided.
They're probably wearing slightly different gear between the different reports, but not *that* drastically different. I'm sure anybody else who's done attempts on M'uru can throw similar WWS parses at you. Overall, roughly a 30% increase in avoidance, which is exactly the amount Radiance cuts it by.
Which is rather amusing seeing as you can actually see the Sunwell from his room, you'd think that if the buff worked anywhere it would be there.
The paladin tank isn't really a good indication since WWS counts any attacks that are fully blocked as avoided. The spawns on M'uru hit light enough that with almost any reasonable gear set you will be full block all blocks. While on Felmyst you probably won't without a proc (Mother libram, Autoblocker, etc) up.
The skeleton adds on Felmyst are not effected by Sunwell radiance as you can see in the parse.
This seems a lot more controllable. I like it. I don't think it's necessary to have such a caster heavy raid either. The mages are probably interchangeable with other classes. It seemed like they got through phase 1 a lot faster as well.
The only thing I couldn't see from the video was how they were stopping the mages from standing out of range and pelting the paladins with Fireballs. My best guest would be interrupts, but it's hard to see in the video.
Yeah, I must say this isn't something I really thought about, since everyone I know uses the Exodus 'goalie' strategy at 6 and 12.
I think its more forgiving of dps slacking, but I wouldn't describe it as more controllable.
That's pretty odd... over all the pulls so far while juggling threat on three mobs to stay over Blade Flurry/Cleave/Whirlwind, melee have occasionally pulled more or less when Omen says it would, and I (while keeping an eye on the other mobs) tend to build threat on the first DPS target till about 30k, then completely ignore it while getting the other two mobs up as well. This means that the Fury Mages can go a long time without much threat applied to it, or other times have a ton unloaded on it and then have it left alone after, but every time someone pulled aggro on it, it was confirmed they were over by Omen, which implies no threat reset
Two explanations I could think of for that rubberbanding you note are ES/POM/Lifeblooms as well as Primal Fury procs (believe me, there are a -lot-) generating enough aggro to overtake whichever healer had aggro at the time, as well as the fact that aggro can change but mobs finish casting whatever spell they are on the target they started it on.
I've had one experience on the hallway side where a polymorphed berserker 'wandered' into the middle of the room while poly'd. I think it's just due to slight anomalies with terrain causing it to path like that; similar to the patrols that path at the top of the ramps on the way to Kalecgos. The adds on the hallway side always path 10-15 yards past the barrier (that appears when you engage M'uru) before they target somebody, whereas the adds door side only go past the barrier like 2 yards before they actually target something.
Anyone how negative energy exactly works in p2?
From analyzing our logs i noriced that it increases the targets over time but sometimes it only hit 4 and later way more. Does it chain or not?
The damage is atleast 500 first target, 1000 then 2000 and then 500 again. After 80-90sec it can hit upto 18 people.
Anyone how negative energy exactly works in p2?
From analyzing our logs i noriced that it increases the targets over time but sometimes it only hit 4 and later way more. Does it chain or not?
The damage is atleast 500 first target, 1000 then 2000 and then 500 again. After 80-90sec it can hit upto 18 people.
Not exactly.
Negative Energy in phase 2 is a chain light spell : 2000 on the main target, 1000 on the first bounce, 500 on the second. It's chain casted every 1.0-1.2 sec.
Every 12-18 sec, Entropius basically adds another "main target" to negative energy so after 90 seconds, you can have around 6 main targets, 6 first bounces and 6 second bounces. Your healers should be able to outheal negative energy dps up to 4-5 main targets. After this mark, you'll quickly wipe.
On another note, do guilds feel that connections/game is less stable in this room than it is elsewhere? Several guilds have chronicled how DCs/crashes have ruined attempts leading to their first kill.
It could also be biased as DCs are more noticable (since almost any DC causes a wipe, not just key players).
Have to say we've experienced this far too often as well in this room. Would be lovely to blame Blizzard rather than our ISPs.
Everyone should watch the Drow video for something truly "different" -- even if you've killed M'uru and seen a half-dozen videos of people DPSing humanoids, watch this one: Drow_Muru_Kill.wmv - FileFront.com
I gotta say, that is probably the most innovative type of strat I've ever seen, too bad the melee get fucked.
This will lead to quite some interesting discussion in the mage and warlock discussion threads. Imp Flamestrike and Impact finally useful in raiding!?!
Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean.
is the chain avoidable since sometimes i see him hitting less targets than before.
Yes. I don't know what's the bounce range exactly, probably 10 yards ? But phase 2 is all about dps, you don't really have the time to find the perfect position to avoid dmg.
Keeping the mage alive as long is possible is obviously beneficial to the raid dps. We have two mages spellstealing and dpsing M'uru all the time in phase 1. They and a couple of shadowpriests bring him down in 4-5 min, while the rest of us slack on adds.
We've been having problems overall. First off, our raid makeup.
3 Mages
3 Warlocks
2 Hunters
1 Enh Sham
1 Ele Sham
3 Shadow Priests
1 Rogue
1 DPS War
2 Prot War
1 Prot Pal
2 Holy Priests
2 Holy Pals
2 Resto Sham
1 Feral Druid
Our Feral is in the back with casters -> 3 Mages, 1 Warlock, Shadow Priest (only on 1st mob), and Ele Sham. Our Feral was getting destroyed by the Mage, so we resorted to double sheeping, none of our casters were AE'ing anyways. They seemed to have no free time, barely killing before next wave.
Prot war in front with the melee (due to skill level mainly) with the Enh shaman melee group -> Enh Sham, Fury War, Rogue, 2 Hunters.
Which leaves 1 Shadow Priest full time on M'uru, 1 on M'uru and Sents and then 2 warlocks on Sents/Adds/M'uru.
Is our setup just super wrong? We're consistently getting to about 60-70% on M'uru, about 2-3M dmg total on WWS reports.
Note: Our guild only has 1 rogue currently. (Although we did just recruit one)
People on deck: 2 Undergeared Hunters
Arms Warrior
Moonkin Druid
1 Mage
and various healers.
Most M'uru setups have 4 DPS + 1 tank per humanoid group, you're using 5+1 and even 5.5+1 on the other side, that is alot of dps lost. Having said that, you're not wiping at 60% due to missing 2 people on M'uru, so identify what is killing you and work from there.
I've been assigned to mass dispelling the Dark Fiends, and although we haven't reached P2 yet, we've gotten pretty far in P1 (20ish%). I mainly just straight up dps M'uru and help sometimes on the Sentinels if needed.
I was wondering, though, if any other shadowpriests who are mass dispelling are are having mana issues near the end of P1? I usually fiend after the second Darkness, and I have to Pot around the 4th but even then my mana is getting precariously low for my liking (roughly 2000 mana left at that time by the 5th darkness).
I'm really scared that by the time we get to the final darkness that I will be oom. Should I just adjust my spell cycle to avoid MB/SWD when I get low and keep VT, Pain, and VE up? Or what do people suggest?
I've been assigned to mass dispelling the Dark Fiends, and although we haven't reached P2 yet, we've gotten pretty far in P1 (20ish%). I mainly just straight up dps M'uru and help sometimes on the Sentinels if needed.
I was wondering, though, if any other shadowpriests who are mass dispelling are are having mana issues near the end of P1? I usually fiend after the second Darkness, and I have to Pot around the 4th but even then my mana is getting precariously low for my liking (roughly 2000 mana left at that time by the 5th darkness).
I'm really scared that by the time we get to the final darkness that I will be oom. Should I just adjust my spell cycle to avoid MB/SWD when I get low and keep VT, Pain, and VE up? Or what do people suggest?
The key to not having mana issues is using your shadowfiend at the proper time so you get full effect from it. Fiending after the 2nd Darkness is extremely early. I usually don't fiend until somewhere around around the 3 minute mark. (4th darkness?) At your gear level, you should be able to get back anywhere from 6-8k mana. I too am on M'uru full time, and will dot Sentinels to get Shadow Weaving/Misery on them.
Make sure if you're fiending after darkness to be very sure a Sentinel isn't being moved through M'uru, if your strategy involves them being moved through the middle at any point.
Additionally, do people find they are getting an abnormal amount of partial resists on M'uru. In our last night attempts our shadowpriests (myself included) were complaining of getting partial resists to the extent that one time a mind blast only hit M'uru for 97 =/
That's why I threw on the Hatefury Mantle. I noticed considerably less partial resists. Was it just the RNG giving us a bad string of partials? Or do other people experience this too?
Additionally, do people find they are getting an abnormal amount of partial resists on M'uru. In our last night attempts our shadowpriests (myself included) were complaining of getting partial resists to the extent that one time a mind blast only hit M'uru for 97 =/
That's why I threw on the Hatefury Mantle. I noticed considerably less partial resists. Was it just the RNG giving us a bad string of partials? Or do other people experience this too?
I don't know.. something seems wonky with M'uru. Twice our last night of attempts I started the fight 0/20 on crits. The odds of that happening on any given attempt is 1 in 5500. Atleast 3-4 times (in around 10 attempts) I was over 50% crit rate when I broke off for the first sentinel. These wild swings NEVER happen on Brutallus. On Brutallus I am almost always either 10% below where I should be or 5% above (I do suspect some form of crit supression/normalization on him)
Same goes for partial resists on M'uru some attempts I'd be over 3000 dps without a high crit rate because I am not getting any partial resists at all, and other times every bolt is partially resisted. There is something wonky on this fight, people might think I am crazy however but I would almost suspect some sort of effect on M'uru that makes things more swingy.
Our guild has gotten to p2, but one thing that prevents us from consistently getting there is melee crits from Fury Mages. Like many guilds, we leave the mage untanked and intend to stun lock them. However, our guild runs three rogues, so it leaves one side (usually mine) more vulnerable and lacking chain stuns. The side in question consists of a Rogue, Fury Warrior, Enhance Shaman, and a part-time BM hunter. DPS on adds is not a problem at all, typically we finish with 3-5 seconds before the next adds even spawn. Now, crits are rare, but they do happen for about 9k+ and it usually results in a death--and of course all cool downs are being used to prevent this. Seems like too much of a luck roll. Any suggestions?
We had that happen on one of our first pulls last night - we moved to having me just taunt the mages whenever i had the gcd available to do so, normally I've noticed that the swipe spam keeps me pretty high on them and I can normally taunt and hold it for quite a while with the wipe spam alone and an occasional maul to the mage. When we first started working on M'uru I was having threat issues but I've worked out my multiple target threat by changing some rotations around and things seem to be much better now.. /shrug.
05/29/08, 12:35 PM
