We had our first full evening on Muru yesterday after the nerf and as we already spend some time on this encounter our strat for P1 ist mostly working. There is only one big problem left: our sentinel tank keeps dieing. The moment is more or less always when the paly tank comes over shortly before the sentinel dies to pick up the new spawns and the additional damage from the nuking old spawns, that are pulled in range, + the sentinel damage is enough to kill him. The tank wears more or less the best gear possible (except Muru und KJ of course). We also tried two or three pieces shadow resistance gear, didn't help. The tank is healed by a Priest + HoTs from a Tree.
The obvious solution is of course to kill the spawns every time before the paly goes over to pick up the new once. This actually solved the problem but a already stated a few times in the thread is highly inefficient, so as a consequence P1 drags on forever and usally something else goes wrong in that timespan. (when we made it to P2 it was with 2 mins left before enrage)
Anybody have an idea what we could be doing wrong?
Just as a tip to your priest healing the sentinel-tank; use Prayer of mending on cd as soon as the sentinel-tank is close to insure the jump to the paladin tanking the spawns. This makes sure it bounces between them five times and will smooth out the damage from the spawns on the warrior somewhat.
Although my guild lets the warrior pick up the sentinel and drag it to the paladin tanking the spawns on the same spot the entire fight, but it should still be the same situation with the shadowbolt-damage on the warrior.
In my opinion, that is one of the mistakes that usually leads to sentinel tank death.
As a priest, when healing sentinel tank you must spam max rank greater heal non-stop. You have time to regen between sentinels. Why spam non-stop? Sentinel can do almost 24k damage in 2 swings: 10,5k first swing, 3k pulse, 10,5k second swing. Time between swings: 2 seconds.
You can't really afford to do low-hp/sec global cooldowns like casting prayer of mending. What if sentinel decides to do the burst just as you cast prom? Tank dies because you are FOUR SECONDS away from landing next heal (1,5sec global cooldown + 2,5sec GHeal cast time), that's up to 30k+ dmg done on tank before your next heal lands.
In my opinion, that is one of the mistakes that usually leads to sentinel tank death.
As a priest, when healing sentinel tank you must spam max rank greater heal non-stop. You have time to regen between sentinels. Why spam non-stop? Sentinel can do almost 24k damage in 2 swings: 10,5k first swing, 3k pulse, 10,5k second swing. Time between swings: 2 seconds.
You can't really afford to do low-hp/sec global cooldowns like casting prayer of mending. What if sentinel decides to do the burst just as you cast prom? Tank dies because you are FOUR SECONDS away from landing next heal (1,5sec global cooldown + 2,5sec GHeal cast time), that's up to 30k+ dmg done on tank before your next heal lands.
Never had a problem with tank dying from the normal sentinel-damage except the first tries when we didn't really know what damage to expect. Note that I just like the person that posted about the issue have a restodruid keeping full hots on the tank to even it out.
If you're alone on healing the tank I wouldn't waste gcd on it either.
(you're forgetting to count in spellhaste in your capsy calculation btw)
I'd suggest you post your WWS. Of great interest to answering your questions will be reviewing how many people are getting hit by singularities - and whether your method of spreading out is reducing the effectiveness of COH in phase 2.
We had our first full evening on Muru yesterday after the nerf and as we already spend some time on this encounter our strat for P1 ist mostly working. There is only one big problem left: our sentinel tank keeps dieing. The moment is more or less always when the paly tank comes over shortly before the sentinel dies to pick up the new spawns and the additional damage from the nuking old spawns, that are pulled in range, + the sentinel damage is enough to kill him. The tank wears more or less the best gear possible (except Muru und KJ of course). We also tried two or three pieces shadow resistance gear, didn't help. The tank is healed by a Priest + HoTs from a Tree.
The obvious solution is of course to kill the spawns every time before the paly goes over to pick up the new once. This actually solved the problem but a already stated a few times in the thread is highly inefficient, so as a consequence P1 drags on forever and usally something else goes wrong in that timespan. (when we made it to P2 it was with 2 mins left before enrage)
Anybody have an idea what we could be doing wrong?
It's important to see exactly what is causing the deaths. Our tank wears some shadow resist gear and it definitely helps, but I think that the void spawn damage is usually not that large. Perhaps your healers are getting distracted because the paladin starts taking more damage as well?
I'd post a WWS and point out some attempts where your tank is dying.
We had our first full evening on Muru yesterday after the nerf and as we already spend some time on this encounter our strat for P1 ist mostly working. There is only one big problem left: our sentinel tank keeps dieing. The moment is more or less always when the paly tank comes over shortly before the sentinel dies to pick up the new spawns and the additional damage from the nuking old spawns, that are pulled in range, + the sentinel damage is enough to kill him. The tank wears more or less the best gear possible (except Muru und KJ of course). We also tried two or three pieces shadow resistance gear, didn't help. The tank is healed by a Priest + HoTs from a Tree.
The obvious solution is of course to kill the spawns every time before the paly goes over to pick up the new once. This actually solved the problem but a already stated a few times in the thread is highly inefficient, so as a consequence P1 drags on forever and usally something else goes wrong in that timespan. (when we made it to P2 it was with 2 mins left before enrage)
Anybody have an idea what we could be doing wrong?
Shadow resistance gear is not required. Tell your tank to always apply Thunderclap and Demo Shout (talented), which will reduce the average hit down to ~7k.
As already said the priest has to spam max rank GH and Inspiration (+25% armor through crit heals) is a must-have.
Nevertheless the damage can be very spiky at times so the tank has to be ready to use Last Stand / Trinket / Nightmare Seed.
On our kill we also used priest + resto druid for sentinel tank and pally heal so it definitively works, but certainly requires some practice.
edit: Maybe your tank just failed at spellreflecting the Void Blast :P
It's important to see exactly what is causing the deaths. Our tank wears some shadow resist gear and it definitely helps, but I think that the void spawn damage is usually not that large. Perhaps your healers are getting distracted because the paladin starts taking more damage as well?
I'd post a WWS and point out some attempts where your tank is dying.
Death 1: No heals from the druid. The tank took 17.6k damage from void spawns in 7 seconds, in addition to 12k damage from the sentinel. The priest can't keep up with that alone.
I think there were also some range issues because of the paly tank moving towards the warrior (healers have to move to get out of the way or can't stand as close as they should). I guess we'll try a fixed paly tank position next time, that could solve the problem. Thanks for your help.
We had our first full evening on Muru yesterday after the nerf and as we already spend some time on this encounter our strat for P1 ist mostly working. There is only one big problem left: our sentinel tank keeps dieing. The moment is more or less always when the paly tank comes over shortly before the sentinel dies to pick up the new spawns and the additional damage from the nuking old spawns, that are pulled in range, + the sentinel damage is enough to kill him. The tank wears more or less the best gear possible (except Muru und KJ of course). We also tried two or three pieces shadow resistance gear, didn't help. The tank is healed by a Priest + HoTs from a Tree.
The obvious solution is of course to kill the spawns every time before the paly goes over to pick up the new once. This actually solved the problem but a already stated a few times in the thread is highly inefficient, so as a consequence P1 drags on forever and usally something else goes wrong in that timespan. (when we made it to P2 it was with 2 mins left before enrage)
Anybody have an idea what we could be doing wrong?
Tell your tank to spec into imp demo shout and use it. I usually use demo as my first global as the mob spawns. Any hits close to 9k are definitely without demo shout. If you forget to ironshield and demo the hits are around 10k, just ironshield and no demo they're close to 9k, and if you have ironshield on and you are specced into imp demo shout, they go down to 7k. With inspiration up they even go as low as 5k. As you can see all these buffs are extremely important.
Looking through the WWS he takes a lot of hits around 6500-7700, which sounds about right for no improved demo shout, and a couple closer to 5k which means inspiration was up. Like I said, demo as your first global as the mob spawns and you'll never see a hit above 8k.
EDIT-Is he not using ironshields? Unless I'm missing something in the WWS, I don't see them. If he's not, he needs to be.
These are bad logs to link - for one, it looks like you were still working out healing assignments in the first parse, because your druid is raid healing a lot in the earlier parses and dropping a lot of stacks from the various tanks. This is nonexistent in the later entries of the parse, I surmise because assignments got locked down.
The 3rd log you linked involves spawns getting loose and ganking your principle priest (he/she tried to fear, but it was over already).
To answer your question directly: your tank definitely needs to be chain chugging ironshields as mentioned, and he also has to lock down the spell reflects. He appears to be missing at least one every attempt. You're having a tank problem at the moment, basically.
I'd suggest you post your WWS. Of great interest to answering your questions will be reviewing how many people are getting hit by singularities - and whether your method of spreading out is reducing the effectiveness of COH in phase 2.
Issues I see:
-far too many hits from singularities (well over 100 on most attempts)
-to a much lesser extent, people standing in void zones
-warlocks not enslaving a void spawn to use
I compared one of your best attempts with our kill, and couldn't help to notice but your druid is taking a lot of damage and I think he could improve and help out by giving your healers more breathing room. Here is my WWS if you would like to compare it: Wigum - WWS
A quick look over the numbers:
Wigum - 261 829 phyical damage taken - 115 hits - 80.6% avoidance
Sebra - 696 631 phyical damage taken - 354 hits - 56.4% avoidance
He's taking a lot of extra damage and he needs to fix it.
Shadow resistance gear is not required. Tell your tank to always apply Thunderclap and Demo Shout (talented), which will reduce the average hit down to ~7k.
As already said the priest has to spam max rank GH and Inspiration (+25% armor through crit heals) is a must-have.
Nevertheless the damage can be very spiky at times so the tank has to be ready to use Last Stand / Trinket / Nightmare Seed.
On our kill we also used priest + resto druid for sentinel tank and pally heal so it definitively works, but certainly requires some practice.
edit: Maybe your tank just failed at spellreflecting the Void Blast :P
I assume 2/5 is sufficient with no Reck on sentinels ? Morever what kind of gear selection are using for sentinel tanking, keep in mind I will be MT on Entroprius. I went mostly avoidance and some threat for P2.
Was it confirmed that the sunwell radiance does not apply here.
I assume 2/5 is sufficient with no Reck on sentinels ? Morever what kind of gear selection are using for sentinel tanking, keep in mind I will be MT on Entroprius. I went mostly avoidance and some threat for P2.
Was it confirmed that the sunwell radiance does not apply here.
You should consider having one of the door tanks on Entropius. This allows the sentinel tank to put on some shadow resist gear if you choose. If one of your door groups is melee, put a warrior tank in there with the enhance and he will be in great shape for maximum P2 threat. The gear requirements for tanking Entropius are not as bad as the sentinels IMO, especially if you can stack cooldowns from 40%->0.
You should consider having one of the door tanks on Entropius. This allows the sentinel tank to put on some shadow resist gear if you choose. If one of your door groups is melee, put a warrior tank in there with the enhance and he will be in great shape for maximum P2 threat. The gear requirements for tanking Entropius are not as bad as the sentinels IMO, especially if you can stack cooldowns from 40%->0.
How much SR should be used for the Sentinel tank and spawn tank , we clump the sentinel and spawns together.
Our paladin tank has 200 buffed and I was not wearing a single piece of SR, i'll try some tonight to see if that makes a difference.
A quick question: How important/essential is the enslaving of the void spawns by the locks in p2?
Most of our attempts in p2 with the locks enslaving the spawns ended with them breaking early and chained volleys to the raid as a result, add in the damage coming from the boss, its really painful and we abandoned the idea of enslaving them for the last few attempts. We got an attempt with 9% on boss though, so I am pretty sure if the enslaves went through properly, we would be 3-5% closer to getting a down. Is there anyway to prevent the enslave from breaking early, if no, how did u guys deal with it or its just a risk to take every p2?
On a side note, I think probably banish or trying to enslave them again would work, but in the process of doing that, especially if the enslave broke late in the fight, those volleys that slip off might be lethal..
Our sentinal tank doesn't wear any SR, just stamina, after we hat issues keeping him alive while he's wearing avoidgear. I ask the priest, who heals him primary with support of an druid, which rank he uses and he answers, that he uses GH rank 2 - 7. And it work very well, so that we could do progress yesterday evening and got up to 2% on muru (so almost p2). Our biggest problem yesterday was that the spawntank did it for the first time, and often a spawn run to the healer/caster-camp. Does anyone can give some advise to keep the spawns better at the paladin?
To not let the spawns loose, you can do the following:
1. Do a consecrate on the sentinal 1-2sec before the sentinal dies.
2. Precast holy wrath ( or whatever its called, that aoe spell ) 1sec before the sentinal dies.
3. Add in some other abilities the pally tank has at his disposal, mobs should not go loose.
Maybe a pally tank can be more specific on this, but these are what I can think of now.
Issues I see:
-far too many hits from singularities (well over 100 on most attempts)
-to a much lesser extent, people standing in void zones
-warlocks not enslaving a void spawn to use
Yeah, we are quite new to p2 so I know we need more practise at avoiding those things. Since we are quite new to p2 still our locks died now and then way to early, causing our voidspawns to become free before they had a chance to die to the aoe damage and we couldnt deal with them aswell.
Senra - WWS
I compared one of your best attempts with our kill, and couldn't help to notice but your druid is taking a lot of damage and I think he could improve and help out by giving your healers more breathing room. Here is my WWS if you would like to compare it:
Wigum - WWS
A quick look over the numbers:
Wigum - 261 829 phyical damage taken - 115 hits - 80.6% avoidance
Sebra - 696 631 phyical damage taken - 354 hits - 56.4% avoidance
He's taking a lot of extra damage and he needs to fix it.
That is quite extreme, especially since I as a dps war am on his side and I put up demo+tc, both fully improved. Senra does still have some upgrades to get though, even from bt I think. Im guessing the huge difference is due to a couple of things: choosing wrong gear to some extent, us only using 3 dpsers on his side so we very rarely have more than 5 sec to spare. Also we nuke the mage down first, I see on your wws that your druid is taking fire damage, I guess this means that you nuke a berserker down first? In that case thats a large part of the incoming damage difference.
Still our healers didnt have any issues with mana, the healer keeping senra alive dosnt even have a sp.
We got him to 7% in p2 yesterday, so close. But this just goes to show how much easier the fight must have become. Since we arent really avoiding that many orbs and our locks dont enslave voidspawns.
That is quite extreme, especially since I as a dps war am on his side and I put up demo+tc, both fully improved. Senra does still have some upgrades to get though, even from bt I think. Im guessing the huge difference is due to a couple of things: choosing wrong gear to some extent, us only using 3 dpsers on his side so we very rarely have more than 5 sec to spare. Also we nuke the mage down first, I see on your wws that your druid is taking fire damage, I guess this means that you nuke a berserker down first? In that case thats a large part of the incoming damage difference.
Still our healers didnt have any issues with mana, the healer keeping senra alive dosnt even have a sp.
He is mainly talking about the avoidance difference. 56% is extremely low so I'm betting Senra is using his normal tanking gear for this fight. Stacking AGI/Dodge really helps the spike damage that tends to come in when the Berserkers gain flurry. In the new parse Trusts also has low avoidance 56-60%. Remember that the druids at the doors only need 2.2% anti-crit and 32k armor, I even tend to go down to 29-30k armor to get more dodge on. Looks like they are in an enhancement sham group, they should be getting GOA. Also looking at their armory both are using a bit too much STA gems, 18sta meta /cringe. Wildfury or Twins staff if they have it already. Senra has Flask of Fortification when he should be using Elixirs of Major Agility/Fortitude. This is discussed in greater detail in the Feral Druid Megathread, 70%+ avoidance is quite easy if they are getting GOA and gear properly.
He is mainly talking about the avoidance difference. 56% is extremely low so I'm betting Senra is using his normal tanking gear for this fight. Stacking AGI/Dodge really helps the spike damage that tends to come in when the Berserkers gain flurry. In the new parse Trusts also has low avoidance 56-60%. Remember that the druids at the doors only need 2.2% anti-crit and 32k armor, I even tend to go down to 29-30k armor to get more dodge on. Looks like they are in an enhancement sham group, they should be getting GOA. Also looking at their armory both are using a bit too much STA gems, 18sta meta /cringe. Wildfury or Twins staff if they have it already. Senra has Flask of Fortification when he should be using Elixirs of Major Agility/Fortitude. This is discussed in greater detail in the Feral Druid Megathread, 70%+ avoidance is quite easy if they are getting GOA and gear properly.
Well, thanks alot for the help, ironshield potions, speccing improved demo shout and a fixed paly tank position really helped alot. Unfortunately solving the old problems created a new one. If a Void Sentinel spawns on the other side, opposite to the paly tank position and darkness spawns so that he has to wait before pulling across, we normally fall behind so much the next Void Sentinel will inevitably cause a wipe. Are we just too slow with dps or is there some other trick to cross the middle faster?
07/23/08, 6:42 AM
