Yes i tested it with my Eng shield too, did not get any procs. Another thing i noticed in testing later this evening, was that if i was out of melee range JoR procced every 3rd or 4th judgment(27-36sec), but when in melee range, whether i was meleeing or not, it would not proc reliably. Also exorcism would not proc immediately after a judgment proc, indicating that they do share the ICD but apparently not the same mechanics.

I got the same data for a slow weapon, but the data was way off for a fast one.
1009 swings of a 3.6 second weapon, 130 procs => 2.14 PPM
1022 swings of a 1.8 second weapon, 85 procs => 2.77 PPM

I'll be doing more tests later on tonight with the fast weapon.

The reason some hunters might have seen this "work" is because Kill Command and Arcane Shot are considered spells in many scenarios. If you use either ability on Phase 3 of Zul'jin you will get nuked by the tornadoes just like a warlock casting a shadowbolt would. Mend Pet is also a spell, and probably Hunter's Mark also (I wonder who will be the first to ninja-pull a boss with a proc off a hunter's mark).

Yes, and unfortunatelly, that's pretty much why it will suck for us, even pvp wise. The melee proc rate is too low to be interesting. If Judgements were on spell procrate, it might have been good.

Just to clarify for shadow priests/affliction locks, channeled spells will not trigger the proc for Deathfrost. I spammed Mind Flay last night (put Deathfrost on my old Anathema) and it never procced. Definitely not worth it for a SP / Aff Lock in PvP. Oh, sad days indeed.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone checked to see if there are any additional threat components from the slow?

I was playing around on Illidian last night and had the debuff up, I'll have to research the logs to see if it did anything.

Here is the log, there weren't any parries from anyone that would have caused a hasted swing, so I simply parred it down to the relevant information, make whatever conclusion you want...it also proc'd on the Flames of Azzinoth, as well as the Parasites.


18:24'50.000Illidan Stormrage's Swing hits Mythos for 4043 Physical damage (372 blocked)
18:24'51.578Illidan Stormrage's Swing dodged by Mythos
1.578 second attack speed
18:24'51.750Illidan Stormrage is afflicted by Deathfrost <--Deathfrost
18:24'53.093Illidan Stormrage's Shear blocked by Mythos
1.515 seconds after an attack, Shear
18:24'54.500Illidan Stormrage is afflicted by Thunder Clap <--Thunderclap
1.813 second attack speed
18:24'54.906Illidan Stormrage's Swing hits Mythos for 3761 Physical damage (372 blocked)
18:24'54.906Illidan Stormrage's Swing parried by Mythos
1.906 second attack speed
18:24'56.812Illidan Stormrage's Swing misses Mythos
18:24'56.812Illidan Stormrage's Swing dodged by Mythos
1.766 second attack speed
18:24'58.578Illidan Stormrage's Swing dodged by Mythos
18:24'58.578Illidan Stormrage's Swing hits Mythos for 3627 Physical damage (372 blocked)
1.765 second attack speed
18:25'00.343Illidan Stormrage's Swing parried by Mythos
18:25'00.343Illidan Stormrage's Swing dodged by Mythos
1.740 second attack speed
18:25'02.093Illidan Stormrage's Swing parried by Mythos
18:25'02.093Illidan Stormrage's Swing hits Mythos for 4612 Physical damage (372 blocked)

Some short testing in melee indicates that when it procs off melee attacks, there is no internal cooldown. I observed frequent and multiple refreshes of the proc prior to its expiration. This seems consistent with others' findings.

Also, in melee, crit damage benefits from [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond]. Every crit was for 232 damage (1.545*base) instead of just 225 damage. And it procced from Lightning Shield damage, Windfury attack, Flametongue attack.

In casting, the minimum time period between two procs while spamming rank 1 Lightning Bolt was 25.5 seconds. It never refreshed.

I never got a crit while casting and wearing enhancement gear. I frequently crit while meleeing in enhancement gear. A more thorough test would have to be performed to reach a conclusion on when it uses melee crit rate vs casting crit rate.

I'll venture to guess Shaman can get a lot out of this relative to other classes, assuming the melee mechanics and casting mechanics are unlinked. The suggested 50% proc rate with 25s or so ICD on spells could mean decent proc rate from shocks on top of the PPM from enhancement melee attacks.

Minor note, but it's probably that it doesn't proc off DoTs rather than channeled spells. Or did you test with Arcane Missiles as well?

So do you think it will proc off stormchops?

For a melee class it could grant an extra 2 procs per minute. Stormchops has procc'd some bonus's in the past (particularly "chance on crit"). I intend to test, but multiple testers can never be a bad thing.

Err, would be interesting to know for curiosity's sake, but 2 additional chances per minute to proc a subpar enchant is not going to make stormchops or deathfrost worth using over the alternatives...

For hunter's:

Doesnt proc off of Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, or Hunters Mark (yeah, I tried it).

Hmm, anyone got any concept of the relative threat increase for using deathfrost over Executioner or Mongoose as a warrior tank? It's clear the melee slowing aspect is rather inconsequential but would a regular 150 damage with a debuff (something in me says that debuffs have a base threat of 40 or so) put it anywhere close to the threat boost from executioner. Executioner scales better of course but I'm considering tanks as having a lot less physical damage to be scaled.

The WWS log linked above seemed to suggest Deathfrost doing 2% of the tank's damage, roughly. The threat from getting debuffed wouldn't be accounted here of course, but I've heard Executioner giving about a 5% threat increase when it procs, on average. So... um... 2% damage boost plus semi-regular debuff threat vs a 5% threat boost that's up 1/3 to 1/2 the time? Roughly? Oh how I love Armor Penetration for easy calculations, I'm just having to go on memory and hearsay from theorycrafting I've seen in the past.

My gut feeling is that Deathfrost likely produces similar threat to mongoose rather than exe but would be interesting to have someone with a higher grasp of the numbers fiddle with them to see if Deathfrost has -any- use whatsoever on tanking weapons, now that its DPS potential has been seen to be rather low and seems to be mostly a pvp toy and cheap levelling weapon enchant.

the comment is appreciated, however I ask what makes this subpar? It may be, but from what I can see, no one has any specific solid information. In my guild's WWS for our MT, he does around 23k damage (threat) as well as what I'm calling "anti-haste" on the bosses and trash mobs. More threat + slower rate of damage seems to be a sweet enchant for a tank. Of course as the person above me asks, is this more/same/less useful as Executioner? I'm anxious to see the hard math on this.

Death frost is subpar because Thunderclap overrides it and provides more slowing. The threat isn't much, just threat from the 150 frost damage. Decent if you didn't have TC.

However, it does appear to be decent while leveling a non-hunter character, since the materials are cheaper than the alternatives.

Has anyone tested this effect in pvp yet? I saw it has DR somewhere in the thread, and that rogues can cos out of it, is it dispellable as well?

::edit

tested this vs a frost mage. Was unable to dispell it (can bubble out of it of course); interesting thing to note in pvp is that the application only sticks for 8 seconds, and with a ~20s ICD there is no concern over DR.

I doubt they would put in an enchant that does additional threat to a weapon, at least not as a primary effect (why would you want a high aggro enchant on a caster?). I think all you're going to get is that 150 threat modified by whatever your modifiers are (Defensive Stance and Bearform, pallys would get nothing).

It seems to be a suboptimal enchant for pve and a situational to good enchant for pvp. Putting threat on it that gave it equal threat to executioner would give it a use for pve. If noone else has tested it by this weekend, i'm planning on testing it on the test realm.

I agree, though I was always under the impression that debuffing a target has an inherant threat of its own, in the way that tanks can use Battleshout and Demo shout for -small- amounts of aggro, not because they're threat givers but simply because they have an inherant threat value.

I can't remember where I got the number from but something around 45 threat for a debuff comes to mind from what I read somewhere. It's one reason gifts of arthas are so nice for tanking, the debuff you give when struck is nice for threat. I doubt it would be massively significant, but I -think- the threat from deathfrost is going to be 150 (modified by spelldamage debuffs/def stance/crits etc) + 45, then modified by a tank's thraet multiplier.

Only small, but around 200 threat every 15-20 seconds isnt going to be too bad I wager. Though I doubt that can keep up with Executioner at all. It should be more than mongoose though, I think. Ish.

The debuff stuck on Muru, will post in a few if I can get it to stick on Entropius.

The debuff border shows up as red, indicating that it's a physical (and thus undispellable) effect.

Stuck on Entropius as well.