ioguolo

I don't have the parse on me because I'm at work, but I did some tests and before thunderclap I had a mob attack me for 15 seconds each attack was 2.133 speed. I did not attack to not parry the target. I then Thunderclapped and then melee'd until it procced. The 8 seconds it was procced gave 2.666 attack speed.

When you do that math it's 25%. I had improved TC so what this tells me is that it's 15% from the enchant, and 10% from TC, ignoring the 3/3 talent. I see similar #'s out there showing TC does in fact change the speed. Does anyone else find the same as me? I will do more tests, but unless something is going on during my parses the attack speed is not 15% slower, but 25%.

I keep seeing people say it doesn't stack with TC but they don't have any speed values to show it.

And yes it can in fact refresh itself. I keep seeing "it has 20 second ICD". This is false. It refreshed 3 times in a row during our raid last night. I'm the only one in the raid with it currently.

 

Incoherence

My understanding from this thread is that it has no internal cooldown for MELEE attacks, but a 20-25 second cooldown for SPELLS.

 

ioguolo

Ok thanks for the clarification on my lack of reading that detail.

BTW, has anyone seen anything on effecting channeled spells?

 

Elpapa

So does it stack or with TC or no? Our tank seems to think it does. Both icons remain visible on the mob as well.

 

• frmorrison

It does not stack with TC. However, both debuffs will be up.

 

Khanus

So, while it may not stack with TC, keep in mind what having both does bring to you...

It can save you the rage from using it on single targets that don't hit that hard (say, for an off-tank on an add). That's not a great reason, but it's also not a bad one.

It gives spell slow, which (and forgive me I never tank with my warrior) TC does not? Again helpful for those times you may not have Tongues up.

It helps when there is no warrior. Granted, a pally probably won't be running to swap +40 sd for it, and a bear can't use it, it still may help in, say, a 10 man, or yet again on adds.

Finally, they both stay up, though not necessarily add together. So keeping it up in addition to TC can help as Deathfrost is an enchant and forget, it'll apply itself, and stay active if TC drops for whatever reason. So it has its use as a "backup".

So again, very situational, but as a Prot Pally and Bear tank, I certainly wouldn't mind having this debuff up on my target.

 

Punscho

You compare the attack speed, when in fact you should compare the number of attacks made per time unit since that is how casting/swing speed modifiers work.

2.666/2.133 ~= 125%, as in a 25% slower swing speed, not 25% 'slowness'.

Haste is calculated as 1% haste improves the number of attacks done per time unit with 1%.
1% slowness decreases the number of attacks done per time unit by 1%.

So a 2.133 second base attack speed becomes 2.509 with 15% slowness and 2.666 with 20% slowness.

1/2.133 ~= 0.469 attacks per second (aps)
1/2.509 ~= 0.399 aps
1/2.666 ~= 0.375 aps

0.399/0.469 ~= 85%. An aps decrease in 15% (Deathfrost).
0.375/0.469 ~= 80%. An aps decrease in 20% (imp TC).

Both the TC and Deathfrost debuffs will be visible on the target because deathfrost provides an additional benefit; casting slowness and is thus not removed.

 

Douglas

Remember, the tank doesn't have to be the one applying it. My enh shaman wants this on some soloing weapons, for when I want to decrease the enemy's output. (It might have more general applicability than that, but I at least want it for that.) If I'm on a run with a bear tank...

 

Cranberry

It's a really, really small threat loss for us, on the order of 10-15 tps. Well worth it for up-and-coming protadins who may or may not have a war TCing for them.

 

Sydane

The casting slow is proving to be effective on a lot of things that are immune to CoT, and while it doesn't compare to CoT in effectiveness, it does provide a slight benefit in those situations.

Unfortunately, I think in the end it will prove to be the unholy of BC, inexpensive and cool looking, and only used for the graphical effect.

 

• frmorrison

It is 20 TPS losing the 40 SD enchant. Note this not having 40 SD hurts Protadins role, AoEing/holding threat on adds.


Pallys could get an extra weapon for Death Frost for the situations where it proves useful.

 

Denogran

40 Spelldamage is somewhat more than 20 TPS in AoE situations, which is conveniently where this enchant will be the least useful.

I don't think it's entirely useless as a protadin. Every good tank has multiple weapons enchanted in multiple ways that they can switch out depending on the situation, and this just gives us one more option. I just put it on an extra [Hammer of Judgement] I picked up, and will use it in places where I don't have T-Clap.

 

Khanus

Was gonna suggest exactly that, putting it on a backup weapon. Take Hyjal (which my guild just started). After the trash, what's a protadin to do on, say, Rage other than stand there and keep a judgement up (and please, if there is something, let me know)? I might as well pull out my Deathfrost weapon and at least keep that up.

 

Denogran

I take a nap. I mean the thing with most 25 man raids is that you're more than likely going to have warriors throwing down T-Clap (and locks putting up CoT if useful) already. So this is really only good for when you don't have a pocket warrior.

 

Sayessa

Mobs that are immune to CoT are probably immune to the casting slow portion of Deathfrost as well. Just because a debuff sticks on something doesn't mean it has an effect.
Remember the old CoT (pre BC) ? Not a single Mob was immune to it, but it didn't have any effect at all on most raid bosses. Was fun though for Nefarian class calls, Nefarian yells something in demonic and the bossmod doesn't recognize it.

 

• frmorrison

Someone posted that on Kael (who is immune to CoT), the Deathfrost debuff slowed his Pyro down.

I agree it is a good idea for a Protadin to look for an extra weapon to put Deathfrost on.


To the person that asked what a Protadin should do on a boss he is not tanking, get some +healing and mp5 gear and cast Flash of Light. I think lowering the chance of tank death is better than keeping up Wisdom and doing 300 dps.

Even better, you could do both, judge every 20 seconds (debuff judgments never miss, but melee attacks can) and spam Flash.

 

PSGarak

There was also a small period where some bosses were not immune to the curse, but were immune to the debuff it put on. The Queen in the Bug Trio, for example. It was rather confusing. The spell sound played and you say the cast graphic appear on her, and there was no immune message, but no debuff appeared. Apparently before that change the debuff wasn't having any effect, but it was a rather jarring deviation from MC where everything was flat-out Immune, including rock elementals with no spells. So anyways, don't take the presence of the debuff to mean that it has an effect, especially for a debuff that has two effects which can be immuned separately.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

What Do I Type Here?

I've had it for a while now on my priest (99% pvp) and I'm actually planning on keeping it at least until my next weapon upgrade. I have the luxury of being a backup healer on both my important teams so I just get to play offensively and the most important thing is that it does proc off mana burn (obviously at the very good spell proc rate as reported by many in this thread) which just plain makes it a better choice for my play style.

 

Cake>Pie

Tanked the priest in BT council fight last night with deathfrost. It won't proc while she has BoP on and she is immune to the proc while she has spell immunity on, so in a 10.5 minute fight with her I was only able to land it 7 times unshielded and 4 shielded.

 

Arwenz

So far I've came up with this ( I enchanted my Off-Hand Vengeful Shiv with Deathfrost ):

It has no Hidden Cooldown. ( Procced 3 times on 3 Shivs )
It has a pretty high proc rate. ( Procs pretty often to me )
The cast speed reduction is enough to give me time to kick, which I sometimes fail to do because of Global Cooldowns.

Also, the Ranged and Melee reduction is excellent for both PvP aswell as PvE. Since It'll help the tank by alot. I suggest Slam Warriors getting Deathfrost since they are not brought to Raids for their DPS anywyas, but for their debuffs. Tanks might also consider getting it, now I'm not very good at PvE but that's just my thoughts and my point of view at Deathfrost.

 

Teez

You must have missed the part where it didn't stack with Thunderclap, which is a given any time there's a warrior in a raid.

Edit: also, I'm pretty sure the fact that the melee proc has no ICD has been stated in the vicinity of 10 times now in this thread, aswell as (relatively) accurate quantified procrates.

Warrior - Shaman - Priest

 

Scriblet

When Dual Wielding Flametounge on 2.6 speed weapons, using SS and Earthshock whenever it was up, I got around 8-9 procs per minute in 7 minutes of beating on a mob in the blasted lands. It also seemed based on my spell crit...
Stats as a side note:
20% spell crit
23% melee crit
3% spell hit
10.76% melee hit
~700 Spell damage
1100 full buffed ap xD


Sadly, this can NOT proc Elemental Devestation, once again proving that it's a WORTHLESS TALENT =(

 

Tacitus

I just had it eat my Thunderclap in ZA. Thunderclap was not talented (OTing in PVP spec), so could this be why it kept overwriting it?

Brotherhood, Peace, Unity

Welcome back, Comrade

 

• Chicken

It would do so yes, being the more powerful attack speed slowing effect in this case. It definitely doesn't overwrite Improved Thunderclap based on my own testing.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

nfw

Did you notice her casting slower when it procced?